7 replies to this topic

[Scieszka]

Hello there, I will try to give my best explanation of the case, so I would like that before you ignore me, take the time to read, because I will be explanatory; The thing is the "True Howard Alt-Eisen Card" seems like it's bugged and don't give you what the card say or it can't be stackeable with another same card in the weapon or I have too much axe tornado damage amplifier on my build that it can cancel the max % of dmg that I can get in one skill (which is possible, I don't know)

 

 

This is the card effect:

1- give you +20% axe nado dmg.
2- give you +20% axe nado extra when weapon is lvl 4.
3- give you +20% axe nado extra when weapon is +10 (which means +9 doesnt apply, but for report this thing I'm going to use one +12 so it's okay)

I imagine that any head of any living human being thinks that if you meet all those requirements, you will have + 60% dmg in total, don't you? (spoiler: nope)

For this explanation im going to show you my build for you to understand how I see that the effect of the aforenamed card does.

 

Let's not go into details of the total accumulation of dmg towards that skill I have, let's focus on the card of the weapon perse. for showing you my point of view, I tried with 2 weapons:

 

+14 Illusion war axe [2] with:

True Howard Alt-Eisen Card (1st slot)

True Howard Alt-Eisen Card (2nd slot)

 

and

+12 Illusion war axe [2] with:
White Knight Card (1st slot)
True Howard Alt-Eisen Card (2nd slot)


Why I'm using another axe with "White Knight Card"? Because "White Knight Card" give you phisical dmg +20% against medium and large mobs and also if you have the "Khalitzburg Knight Card" gives you and extra +15% phisical dmg against the same mobs, which means +35% against large and medium mobs which also means it's almost the middle of the damage that 2 "True Howard Alt-Eisen Card" does

 

And then, forget about all my other stuff, we are going to focus in weapon, which means that I'm going to switch weapons and calculate the average, I proved the damage on this mob:

 

those are their stats:


So now I'm going to try to calculate my average damage with the following set:

 

those are my damage on them with the white knight card + true howard alt:

 

248021

250140

215411

221504

255140

249001

249784

250414

249874

248712
The Average Damage is: 

243800.1but let's say it's 243801.

now I'm going to try with the x2 True howard alt eisen card weapon:

 

Those are my damage with that setup:
 

 

218210

228171

220147

231410

227922

229956

225841

228854

222517

220417

The Average Damage Is:

225344.5 but let's say it's: 225345

 

So if we look at those numbers, it's impossible to the White Knight + Khalitzburg Knight Card do more damage than the x 2 True Howard Alt-Eisen Card, as I said, there's like 4 different explanations, and those are:
1) - True Howard Alt-Eisen Card effects are not working (I don't have empty Illusion War Axe to prove this, I honestly don't want to prove this with another axe with and without the card cause I'll pass of wasting zeny on this job, cause I spent alot of zeny trying to do decent damage, I know there's GX or Ranger that with the 1/4 part of my spent zeny would have better damage, but I like to be mechanic,I don't like to play one job cause it's broken, I want to play the job cause I like it )
2) - x2 True Howard Alt-Eisen Card Doesn't stacks.
3) - I have too much axe tornado damage % and it bugged my damage (which is crazy cause as I known there's not limit on dmg%)
 

I want to the GM see the problem and try to solve it, as I said, there's ppl on the game like me that they want to play with a class because they like it, not because they're broken, LOL. Ty for read the post.

 

 

Edited by VModIceCreamCake - Please do not use bold red font in your posts as it is reserved for CM/VM messages.

Edited by VModIceCreamCake, 03 January 2022 - 02:22 AM.

[Boyeteers]

diminishing return same with having too much %crit modifier

[Scieszka]

UPDATE:

 

After try damage with another Illusion War Axe +12 [2] wihtout any "True Howard Alt-Eisen Card" I can tell you that every card gives you like just 20%-30% axe tornado damage, maybe the item script doesn't counting the lvl 4 item for extra 20% and +10 req for another 20% extra. It cost me to much to find out so, watch the item script GM please... The script description Item would be this way:

 

True Howard Alt-Eisen Card Script:

{ if (getrefine() > 9) .@b += 20; if (getequipweaponlv(-1) == 4) .@b += 20; bonus2 bSkillAtk,"NC_AXETORNADO",20+.@b; },{},{}

 

Im not expert in C# rAthena but the script should start givin you the +20% more damage on the item, then +20% extra if the weapon is lvl 4, then if the  weapon is +10 another extra +20%. Not starting in the last conditional (+10) I don't know... But check what I said please... I already found the error investing my zeny so it's easy to fix.

 

Edited by Scieszka, 31 December 2021 - 04:02 PM.

[carnisero]

I am having the same problem. Can a GM look into this please. My  Tornado Axe is hitting about the same amount as my Illusion War Axe with 2 howard cards. Something is buggy. 

[Ashuckel]

It looks like you are not accounting for the fact that you have various pieces of gear with Axe Tornado. 

Your hat gives 100%
Your weapon gives 140%
Your shoes gives 150%
Your garment gives 100%
Your accessories give at least 50% each.

You already have at least +590% Axe Tornado damage on the rest of your equipment.
Each subsequent card will just add to that value, becoming 650%, 710%, and so on.

At this point, you already have so much of the same type of bonus, that using a different modifier with a lower value(WK card) will yield better results than just adding on top of the same one.

2x Howard cards will just be a +710% increase. So 1 x (1+7.1) = 8.1

1x Howard 1x WK(+shield) will be a +650% skill increase and +35% size increase. So 1 x (1+6.5) x (1+0.35) = 10.125

Using 2x WK cards(+shield) will be +590% skill increase and +55% size increase. So 1 x (1+5.9) x (1+0.55) = 10.695



As you mentioned yourself, there isn't a cap to how much of the same stat you can stack. There is however a point where diversifying your modifiers will yield better end results than just piling everything into a single one.

Different bonuses multiply each other.

Take for example the simple equation of  5 x 1, and you can add a +1 to whichever of these two numbers. Which one will give you a higher end result? Adding it to the 5 will just make it 6x1 =6, while adding to the 1 will make it 5x2=10.

Edited by Ashuckel, 02 January 2022 - 04:41 PM.

[6151210714154945247]

You need to do the math...

 

Illusion war axe --> 140% tornado axe dmg

Work Cap --> 100% tornado axe dmg

Magma Manteau --> 100% tornado dmg

Illusion Military Boots --> 150% tornado dmg

2x Arquiens --> 100% tornado dmg?

 

Total is 140+100+100+150+100+(base which is 100) == 690% dmg total

 

Now, if you add 2 howard cards, you'll get 120% additional --> 690+120 = 810% dmg total

 

810/690 = ~1.17 ... So, 2 howard cards added a total of 17% additional axe tornado dmg given your existing equipment set. It's just the math.

[Scieszka]

Thank you very much guys for the feed back! I didn't expect anyone to answer honestly. I tried a lot of times this before I posted cause I don't like to screw up things but there's the thing; I posted this ignoring equipment cause it's the same If you grab just the axe and try you gonna get the same numbers, I'm going to show you what numbers I've got before just testing with just shield + axe, the only thing that changes is the frecuency of damage, I mean, with double true howard the damage ins't too low but it is not higher than white + true howard so...

there's the try with just WK + True Howard:

 

68447

69417

71541

76417

75174

69411

67177

77167

70771

71818

average: 717340

 

 

there's the true with double true howard alt:
 

71081

72417

76548

75141

76517

76102

70150

70147

70891

69107

average: 728101

 

Remember that I am getting the numbers empirically, which means that I am getting the values through experiment and those "average" numbers could have come out in favor of the "True Howard" in this case, but, If you look at each data, it is only because the damage with that card remained constant, the minimum value and the maximum value are not very far, on the other hand, with the WK + True Howard we had a higher maximum value and a value Lower minimum, worth the redundancy, then the theory that I have too much% damage in the ability is not so valid for me, because if so, I would have do much more dmg with the double true howard and it was not like that ... Also I have tested by putting on more equipment that benefits me in skill and the numbers continue to matter.

 

[Ashuckel]

Your axe alone already gives 140% skill damage. Adding two howard cards will make your total increase 260%, or multiply your atk by 1 x(1+2.6)=3.6

With 1 howard and 1 WK set you will have 200% skill increase and 35% size increase, so 1 x(1+2) x(1+0.35)=4.05

Its not wrong for the double Howard setuo to be losing still. As a matter of fact the WK one is significantly higher multiplier wise, but the only reason the damage range is still similar for you is because size% doesnt affect your status atk, while skill dmg% does.



This is for anything in RO

If you want solely to confirm that something is working or not, remove everything else that wouldnt matter, to make your life easier. If you want to solely test the cards boosting your damage, use the cards and nothing else. Ditch the excelion shield, imperial set, any extra uneeded buffs etc.
Once you have just the part that matters, use Power Maximize to decrease your damage variance and have easier to check numbers(it doesnt buff your dmg, it just makes you always use the maximum value of your weapon atk variance).
With that, the only damage variation you'll see is from your weapons over refinements, which we can't do nothing about but know it will fluctuate.

After you do that, you will basically confirm your damage numbers to what the damage formula would get you with everything working correctly, and for that you literally use a calculator to plug in some of the damage formula. Use the eggs in Izlude Academy as they are the easiest available and easiest to calculate target( 0 hard def 5 soft def) and confirm whether or not some piece of equipment isnt working correctly.

Edited by Ashuckel, 03 January 2022 - 05:50 AM.