23 replies to this topic

[insertco1ns]

helo so what i want to suggest is:
for mage and cleric , fix the item mall buffs bug which happens while players max their buffs then getting IM buffs and then resetting and end up with maxed buffs and do not use their skill points. secondly , on mage , remove the option of getting the muse stun from supportive tree (the 22meter stun ) then, cancel the option of going both fire and ice and by that abusing sleep and burn effect.another thing is stuns , make the succes %'s of them raise with any skill lvl raised and not start with 65%.

champ , what neeeds to be done is to give weapon requirements to skills and it will balance everything so this way it will balance the class by making the champs using axe instead of sword and by that loosing the accuracy passives. another thing is charge dash bug , when champs running with infinite charge , fix that please

i hope u like my ideas =]

[yamz]

i agree with the champ suggestion, its pretty imbalance to have the type of skill in one weapon.

[Phish]

I have to say I disagree with all that. Alot of people purchased the advanced cleric buffs for that exact reason, making you required to learn the skills would just ruin that. Having the buffs and maxing passives doesn't give you any crazy advantage like it would pre orlo.

For champ weapons, no it makes builds more linear. And the passives would still apply regardles of your weapon. You can get the dual acc passive and still use katars right?

Edited by Phish, 08 August 2010 - 11:38 PM.

[insertco1ns]

yes my friend , but if u make the champ skills connected with the weapon's passive, like axe stuns that requires axe passive u still balance it in a way that the player have less skill points to use to get other necessary skills for example , which makes taking sword passive just for acc passive , impossible and not worth it

[BrownBear]

Idan you forgot about raider's sleep/poison.

[Xros]

I also agree w/ the champ suggestion.. it's just nuts to be able to use skills of other weapons.. if they have no plans of changing it, might as well apply it to other class and also applying it for arrows/bullets/shells, so i can use storm arrows as my ammo for my launcher.. or using bean bullets for my bow.

[ChickenBucket]

eh champs are fine they just need to be toned down too much stuns too much mspeed and too defensive(tank way too much)

[Kaizy]

If I hadn't reached my negative quota of the day I would definitely -1 your thread.

They need changes but those changes looks horrendous.

[PickUp]

If I hadn't reached my negative quota of the day I would definitely -1 your thread.

They need changes but those changes looks horrendous.

I add a + to this post!

I like the fact that champs can use any skill with any weapon, don't ruin it please.

[Bendersmom]

I think the IM buffs should be the way they are stated in the IM description. If you want the party buffs you need the prerequisits. If you want to be atk cleric then you will end up with less buffs or lower lvl buffs.

I think the mage debuff should be changed some with either a decrease in % of success (which that formula for other classes is not working well) or make it the level of the skill determines how many buffs u can take away...lvl 1 1 random buff is removed, level 2, 2 buffs can be removed, etc. But mages are coming back lately...mostly due to the debuff and IM buffs, so I don't want to see it completely nerfed.

I do not have a champ so my only comment on them is wow they hurt.

I find it funny though that few things are said about raider skills here (since it seems like most of the raiders are the ones complaining about everyone else's skills). I think raider stuns, sleeps, poison, etc should also be examined. When I am attacked in UW I stop moving, can't even pot and then die. You get hit all at once with stun, sleep, poison, stun and that's all she wrote. If the classes are to be evened out with stuns, etc then all classes need to be included.

I don't see this all happening before COTT though so we will have to see what happens for that.

[Phish]

If the advanced Item mall buffs are required to have the prerequisite in game buffs then there needs to be some improvements to the offensive side of the cleric tree.

[Bendersmom]

The IM buffs state that the prerequisits are required. The 3 lower level buffs say they can be used with a staff and the others require a wand. But they clearly state that the prerequisits are needed to use those buffs. So a mage would need wand mastery and all 3 buffs maxed to be able to use the IM party buffs. They were originally intended to give us the party buffs when those were taken away. But there is a glitch that makes them able to be used even without the prerequisits. So all you have to do is reset your skills once you learn them and you can use your skill points in other things. As much as I hate to say it I think those should be fixed to be the way they are intended. But if you want the party buffs you need all the other buffs maxed so you get few offensive skills. To be an attack cleric, as some want to be, they will have to not complete the buffs and put the points in attacks or the other offensive skills that are available. Not very effective though without the full buffs and the offenisve skills are not that strong. Better to be a raider or something lol.

Edited by Bendersmom, 09 August 2010 - 02:47 PM.

[tENLAVUU]

i don't agree with the cleric changes

[Kaizy]

The IM buffs state that the prerequisits are required. The 3 lower level buffs say they can be used with a staff and the others require a wand. But they clearly state that the prerequisits are needed to use those buffs. So a mage would need wand mastery and all 3 buffs maxed to be able to use the IM party buffs. They were originally intended to give us the party buffs when those were taken away. But there is a glitch that makes them able to be used even without the prerequisits. So all you have to do is reset your skills once you learn them and you can use your skill points in other things. As much as I hate to say it I think those should be fixed to be the way they are intended. But if you want the party buffs you need all the other buffs maxed so you get few offensive skills. To be an attack cleric, as some want to be, they will have to not complete the buffs and put the points in attacks or the other offensive skills that are available. Not very effective though without the full buffs and the offenisve skills are not that strong. Better to be a raider or something lol.

Where did you get your information from?

I told Zep/Cal specifically back when those IM buff skills were first released that the first job ones couldn't be used with staff. They said they were supposed to be able to use those with a staff. I also asked about the prerequisites and was told it's only needed to learn.

It doesn't actually specifically state that you need the in game buffs to use the skill. I'm pretty sure it states that you need the in game skill to learn it, not to use it. And the item mall description specifically says that it is not effected by job skill resets/etc so I'm sure they know how people use it.

Changing them doesn't really solve anything besides inconvenience players and make those skills much less desirable which in turn makes people spend less on IM. All that will happen is that they'll have their other cleric buff them or a cleric friend/clanmate buff them. Pretty much the same thing. I don't think it's fair to assume people are "glitching" until there is concrete evidence that it is.

Edited by Kaizy, 09 August 2010 - 04:11 PM.

[chippy]

hey can i get launcher smash and cannon splash for my gun bourge er no because we have weapon requirements on our skills so why shouldnt other classes have the same requirement on their skills

after all axe stun says it all you throwing an axe not a spear or a sword so they shouldnt be able to use the skill same with the passives

remove the acc passives from the other classes and put it in to one skill so they cant double up on acc passives

like what bendersmom said the mage debuff make it have more lvls to the skill say 10 lvls, lvl 1 removes 1 buff with a 5% success, lvl 2 removes 2 buffs with a 5% chance, lvl 3 3 buffs removed with a 10% chance of success, lvl 4 4 buffs with a 10% chance of success,lvl 5 5 buffs with 15% , lvl 6 6 buffs with a 15%, lvl 7 7 buffs with a 20% chance , lvl 8 8 buffs and a 20% chance , lvl 9 9 buffs and a 25% chance , lvl 10 9 buffs with a 30 % chance of success

you could add more lvls to it say going to lvl 15 adding a better % for success up to a max of 55% but it would cost more points making it harder to get other skills
the buffs it removes will be random

zuly stun was given a longer cool down because it was 100% success and a lot complained about it now it has been reduced in success % can we have the shorter cool down back


launcher bourges need their stuns improving

raiders need their poison weakening their stun % lowering and sleep shortening and a lower %
also if they have buffs or passives that are meant for a certain weapon type it should be locked so they cant use skills or passives from other weapons too

the item mall buffs state you do need the ingame skill to learn it yes they state the skill will not be lost if you do a skill reset but i am sure it was not meant to be used like it is being im sure they said it would not be lost with a skill reset so people would know they wouldnt have to buy the skill again


i know some of what i have said isnt related to mages or champs but i feel its not just them that need attention
i would truly like to see a good balance update that is fair to all classes

[Bendersmom]

Kaizy I see your point but don't you really think they meant you would need to keep the prerequisit to still be able to use the skill? Is there any other instance where once you lose the required skills you can still use the higher level skills? If it is as they intended it then great. I am not a big fan of taking away things dealing with IM once people buy them. I understand that with the IM buffs "battle" clerics have kind of come back, which is good. I just think it would be a good idea for the developers to make a statement about the IM buffs one way or another so it stops the arguments.

I for one love the IM buffs since it makes a FS cleric's life easier. But as FS cleric I kept both IM buffs and single buffs and I use both routinely. Personally I don't think the battle clerics are that strong with or without the buffs and I dont think the buffs give the mages that much of an advantage, but a lot do think so.

[BrownBear]

like what bendersmom said the mage debuff make it have more lvls to the skill say 10 lvls, lvl 1 removes 1 buff with a 5% success, lvl 2 removes 2 buffs with a 5% chance, lvl 3 3 buffs removed with a 10% chance of success, lvl 4 4 buffs with a 10% chance of success,lvl 5 5 buffs with 15% , lvl 6 6 buffs with a 15%, lvl 7 7 buffs with a 20% chance , lvl 8 8 buffs and a 20% chance , lvl 9 9 buffs and a 25% chance , lvl 10 9 buffs with a 30 % chance of success

I like this idea. Some mages might complain the success rate is too low. But the effect of the skill is so strong that it doesn't really matter if it works every time or not, it is always worth the time to use it. In war situations you effectively cripple a player that you use this (successfully) on, so it should have pretty low success. I also like how you suggest to make it eat more skill points.

[chippy]

another idea for the mage debuff skill make it start at 110 and only can be lvled every 10 lvls so lvl 1 110 lvl 2 120 lvl 3 130 and so on

[Kaizy]

Kaizy I see your point but don't you really think they meant you would need to keep the prerequisit to still be able to use the skill? Is there any other instance where once you lose the required skills you can still use the higher level skills? If it is as they intended it then great. I am not a big fan of taking away things dealing with IM once people buy them. I understand that with the IM buffs "battle" clerics have kind of come back, which is good. I just think it would be a good idea for the developers to make a statement about the IM buffs one way or another so it stops the arguments.

I for one love the IM buffs since it makes a FS cleric's life easier. But as FS cleric I kept both IM buffs and single buffs and I use both routinely. Personally I don't think the battle clerics are that strong with or without the buffs and I dont think the buffs give the mages that much of an advantage, but a lot do think so.

There's no other instance because no other class has actual skills in the IM unless you count passives.

Resetting like that does have a downside so I don't think it's crazy abuse. They can't buff summons or pets or crystals. Whether it's intended or not only a staff member will know for sure but to preemptively call it glitching or abuse isn't fair to people that used it. Make it sound like they're cheating when they could have just interpreted it differently or not known at all.

As for the mage's debuff, if you're going to nerf it to hell, just remove it. It is needed as a prerequisite for some skills so to have it eat SP and get nerfed just because it's overpowered is unfair to mages that don't use/abuse it.

Edited by Kaizy, 11 August 2010 - 05:16 AM.

[yeoldknight]

seems like a good idea

[Blitzkrieg]

well i surely support the idea of champ balancing
but putting back equip restrictions will be too CRUEL
rather here are my suggestions
1)add more skill restrictions - make longinus / geon /champ hit leveled to(5) prerequisites for certain skills like siesmic/achillies/slugger
OR
1)make charge/space attack/blood attack WEAPON SPECIFIC
charge for 2hand sword
space for spear
blood for axe

2) THIS 1 IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY
MAKE CHAMPS SLOWER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rawrr]

Regarding the argument about whether the cleric IM buffs are a 'glitch' or not, personally I don't think it is a glitch - when you think about it, those advanced buffs sort of work just like the unique skills (eg. You must get Soul Revive in order to get Soul Recall, but when you reset normal job skills, you can still use Recall by itself).
IM buffs works the same way.. Probably not a glitch.

[Kairoz]

Sorry, but i have to disagree with the cleric changes too.

[Span]

http://forums.warppo...ms-please-read/

Everyones fair ones this is brought up

Champs charge skill looks like teleporting from the other clients ... bug perhaps

The only champ that can run faster than other classes is only spear coz they have like 40% movement speed from their passive , i suggest changing movement speed to some other things ...

Note : Please do not flame at me once more with weird words , im nerving myself this time ...