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Fine, add no bonus for 2 members parties.


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#1 Kadnya

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 10:39 AM

...But instead, return the exp tap to a worthy version, inverse to the more-members bonus. The more members bonus is nice, but not focused to real partying.

My first feeings about the increased bonus were simply: "well, duo parties are still as worthless, but now if I leech myself as always do I can add a third leeched client and get as much exp as I'm already getting!". Or something like that...

In my opinion, adding a huge more-members bonus just encourages more soloing in groups (fywinging around soloing but grouped in a 'party' so every soloer gets more exp); while adding just a bonus to duo parties makes self leeching not much different than duo partying, exp-wise.

Then, how can we make real partying benefitial, not only solouing-grouped into a 'party'?

I would like to take a see the exp tap, the only activity validation RO has to be revived to something useful, in conjunction with the new more-members bonus: make the tap go lower as more people are in the party, while compensating with a more-members bonus increase. Starting from a 100% increase in tap, and lowering as more members are added, this exp tap would give a reason to party, real partying as in groups of people working in in the same monsters instead of soloers grouped, or solo-leeching. As you can see in the table, partying in duos is much better than leeching yourself, and small parties of 2-6 members should be reasonably good, maybe as effective as 6 solo killers flywinging.

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What do you think?
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#2 Kiryu

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 10:44 AM

that is a good idea because it adds a more proactive rol :3
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#3 soudou

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:12 AM

Duo parties definitely need a boost along with the rest. Its far easier to get a duo party going so its a good starting point for larger parties to build from. Once you got a party going others can join. But if you cant get a duo party going because theres no real exp bonus for doing so its less likely for partying to kick off. As there is no duo to join to make a triple.

Also part of the reason for the partying complaints was due to the lack of parties for support/FS class and more often than not the most common party for that class is FSing 1 other person. This also however means that EXP Tap bonus may not really help, because FS class are too busy FSing to go around tapping stuff. They can chuck a Holy Light in every so often but more often they lose out on any exp bonus because keeping the party member alive is important. EXP Tap would be nice for attackers partying together though.
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#4 EvilLoynis

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:16 AM

Only problem with tapping is that you will usually be doing this to mob parties. Priests don't have many skills that can do a quick AoE tap like most others (Magnum Break, any wiz spell, Sightless Mind, Meteor Assault, Arrow Shower etc...). Will still be a bit difficult in that regard.
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#5 Kadnya

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:29 AM

Exp tap happens when dealing damage or receiving damage, so if you are like, a bishop tanking stuff for your killer, you are aready exp tapping. I guess judex would have an use for tapping if the area was made wider(7x7?) and/or its cast time was made fast(.5 seconds?). But adding an exp tap is a start. While bishops still need a bit more help, adding a useful exp tap benefits them as well as everyone else.
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#6 soudou

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 02:27 PM

A lot of mobbers seem to do their own tanking these days or kill things too fast to need a Bishop to tank for them. I'd say EXP Tap is definitely a good idea though. For other types of parties it'd be helpful. For bishops maybe whatever EXP the party member you're healing/buffing at the time of them getting EXP could result in a bonus only transfered to the Bishop? Better than nothing I guess.

Edited by soudou, 21 February 2011 - 02:29 PM.

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#7 Charon

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 02:48 PM

I still suggest the same as before:

(nr of pty members)-(total%for kill)/(nr)=(% for each member per kill)
1-100%/1=100%
2-160%/2=80%
3-210%/3=70%
4-240%/4=60%
5-275%/5=55%
6-300%/6=50%
7-315%/7=45%
8-320%/8=40%
9-360%/9=40%
10-400%/10=40%
11-440%/11=40%
12-480%/12=40%
-Only when share party members are in range (like kill counts)


Note the bold part.

And I'd also add: share works also for everyone in party who hit or got hit.

Killers spread all over the map doesn't sound like a party to me.

Edited by Charon, 21 February 2011 - 02:51 PM.

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#8 Kitten

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:59 PM

I'd take this system over nothing at all, since I do often tank on my Bishop (just no one wants me to anymore, of course).

Something has to be done to make partying duo better. The GMs are delusional to think otherwise.
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#9 Hanfeizi

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:06 PM

What they really need to do is to eliminate or to reduce the penalty for having too high/too low level differences vis-a-vis the monsters. For instance, the party is comprised of let say 105 RG and 95 HP, they can hunt in area that has monsters at level 90-120 without any penalty. Currently, the HP will only get 40% of total exp. Of course, this system is set to discourage leeching low level chars, but at the same time, this system also kills partying.
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#10 Aesran

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:48 PM

One question is would the tap work outside of parties? This could be an abuse problem. Ex. 15 bard/dancers tap a single monster each. Then one player kills the mob for 1500% exp. If course this would never happen but as far as I know the tap system could be abused in a similar fashion before renewal. As for bishops give them a skill that boosts party exp gain depending on how many members the party is made up of. The skill could balance the exp gain to be similar or somewhat better than solo exp. This would make bishops more sought after for parties. Just don't make the skill stack with other bishops. Also they could make it only affect party members on the same screen as the bishop. Sure it would be abused but bishops need something going for them seriously.
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#11 TrueMaster

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:55 PM

yeah the solo killers grouping for more of a bonus does not really seem like a move in the right direction. MaKe it so it is only for those on screen or at least in some sort of radius, although rag might not be complicated enough to do this.
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#12 Fibrizzo

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 04:56 PM

But... 12 people parties is hard that everybody can tap all monsters due to higher damage aoe skills. It's awesome for MvP exp.
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#13 Kadnya

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 05:08 PM

But... 12 people parties is hard that everybody can tap all monsters due to higher damage aoe skills. It's awesome for MvP exp.


And that is why you keep both exp bonuses: on smaller groups, tap is doable and is the main bonus. On large groups, tap is a second point, and more people is the main bonus. You won't have to tap in order to get an exp bonus, like in the old system, but you can do so, if you want a higher bonus.

Personally, outside of killcounts I have rarely to never, been on a party bigger than 6~people.

This exp tap would be independant of the regular tap, and affected by how big is the party. I guess the tap outside of party would stay at 5%... Outside of MvPs, there isn't a monster worth of bringing lots of charas to tap outside of party anyways.
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#14 soudou

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 06:53 AM

Just a small thing about parties but can iRO make it so it always defaults to share when possible unless set otherwise? I can't count the number of times I've changed maps or relogged or someones left the party and you forget iRO hates people to share EXP so it always gets put to "Each Take". Always dissapointing when you forget to reset share for the gazzilionth time.
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#15 Heimdallr

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 10:08 AM

We'll see about the party bonuses, but I know the tap bonus was significantly lessened to almost nil with renewal. This likely was to keep monsters from reaching insane exp when Exp per monster is so carefully controlled in Renewal.
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#16 Hrothmund

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 12:44 AM

I can just see someone getting 100% from MVP kill at 149 now :P

I'm pretty sure its mvp exp rewards that are targetted with exp tap removal since most other stuff dies in one hit :angry:
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#17 soudou

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:17 AM

Well if its a problem for MvPs I'm pretty sure they can specify things to be excluded for boss monsters, after all certain skills can't be used on boss monsters (e.g. Turn Undead will always 'fail' etc.) so the code has certainly been there for years to do so.

Edited by soudou, 23 February 2011 - 04:18 AM.

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#18 Hacks

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:58 PM

We'll see about the party bonuses, but I know the tap bonus was significantly lessened to almost nil with renewal. This likely was to keep monsters from reaching insane exp when Exp per monster is so carefully controlled in Renewal.

but seriously, is 25% tap, the old value, really that much? how much is insane? it was capped at like 585% or something like that before was it not? just have it put back at 25% and lower the cap to whatever isnt insane, 250% or whatever. problem solved.

no wait actually, this should be an option that can be adjusted over time. have them enable the tap percentage as an option and a cap option too so we can get a more reasonable amount of tap in there and adjust as needed.
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#19 Kadnya

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 05:08 PM

The old tap should return, at least until there are more map options. As if leeching yourself was already enjoyable, the crowded maps (because there is only 1 or 2 options for each leveling bracket) make people to default KSing. From happy suras using lightnight ride, some forum person chaser backsliding inside your mob to KS, a genetic that says 'I KS everyone, it's an habit', a dumb mech who calmly walks towards the mob you are gathering to openly ice launcher...

At least some tap would make up for the open KS lots of people seem to default.
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#20 cybernetic

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 07:54 PM

well you guys are saying that this would be overpowered and what not, but im pretty sure kads idea would be that this would only work if the party is set to even share.
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#21 LordVader

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 11:45 PM

Exp tap seems like a worthless bonus from my perspective considering a) I do all the mobbing and :angry: anything that doesn't die to one shot is a MVP in most cases. With the damage output of most classes, monsters tend to die VERY quickly. Almost too fast for a tap to even occur. I would much rather prefer the base % bonus to parties than tap. Sure some people would self leech but that's how it was when we had tapping. I don't see the point of bringing back a system that already failed. The partying that made RO fun wasn't all about exp tapping but the freedom to pursue harder monsters for better xp/gears. Now with the WOW-esque system they are forcing on Ragnarok it makes partying even more constricted. When the xp of the toughest dungeons aren't even comparable to mid-level dungeons, you have a problem. The focus should be on the terrible xp curve and add party % bonus. Then your AB (or support class) isn't forced to tank or go wack it all before you can one shot it to get decent party xp.
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#22 meli

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 04:53 AM

Uh, so basically being priest, supporting someone (1) is still same crappy exp. I don't get it, considering duos are the only parties you see at moment, what's your logic.

Why not a gradual decrease in exp like 80% 2 players > 70% 3p > 60% 4p > 50% 5p > 40% 6p > 30% +6 players and further amount, minimum exp capped at this rate. Is that too much? Maybe bit lower exp % but... Less people is still more beneficial, but not absurdly bad exp like now, and even a full party would be enjoyable with both killers and support characters.

Edited by meli, 24 February 2011 - 04:55 AM.

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#23 SamuelAdams

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 01:35 PM

People need to learn to forget about that term, overpowered. Even now sad people who have as much skill as a stump still leech with the low exp rates, and they will do that no matter what happens to the system.
It's exp, it sucks in a party, level affects everything now, and it needs to be changed so all players can enjoy progressing in the game more.
People who are stuck in a rut prevent change and progress.
I agree with the two comments before this. About the "needing" to tap for exp being dumb and the other. -_-

Edited by SamuelAdams, 24 February 2011 - 09:26 PM.

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#24 iiNote

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 02:08 PM

...But instead, return the exp tap to a worthy version, inverse to the more-members bonus. The more members bonus is nice, but not focused to real partying.

My first feeings about the increased bonus were simply: "well, duo parties are still as worthless, but now if I leech myself as always do I can add a third leeched client and get as much exp as I'm already getting!". Or something like that...

In my opinion, adding a huge more-members bonus just encourages more soloing in groups (fywinging around soloing but grouped in a 'party' so every soloer gets more exp); while adding just a bonus to duo parties makes self leeching not much different than duo partying, exp-wise.

Then, how can we make real partying benefitial, not only solouing-grouped into a 'party'?

I would like to take a see the exp tap, the only activity validation RO has to be revived to something useful, in conjunction with the new more-members bonus: make the tap go lower as more people are in the party, while compensating with a more-members bonus increase. Starting from a 100% increase in tap, and lowering as more members are added, this exp tap would give a reason to party, real partying as in groups of people working in in the same monsters instead of soloers grouped, or solo-leeching. As you can see in the table, partying in duos is much better than leeching yourself, and small parties of 2-6 members should be reasonably good, maybe as effective as 6 solo killers flywinging.

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What do you think?

I like it. +1
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