21 replies to this topic

[Misery]

I just killed a mvp on a lvl 150 char and used a he gum
i didn't drop a single thing not even a 90% ( before he gum ) drop rate item
is it just really really bad luck or did anyone else experience that too?
if thats the case thanks gravity for letting me use money on he bubblegums

[Allysia]

I had a similar issue various time, that when I used an HE the MVP didn't drop anything, so I opened a ticket and the answer has been that it was just a %. Anyway since I'm not confident in Support Team, I made some other tests(and now that i want come back on Ymir I'm using many HE to have the card that I want before of 6 April)and I can say that yep sometime happen that the MVP don't drop anything also with the HE. So I think that it is just bad luck.

As about MVP drop rate it isn't affect from Drop Penalty. I kill the same MVP since I was just a lvl 82 Champion and the drop has been always the same, without Gum, with normal Gum and with HE.

[Misery]

did you jsut kill that after maint today? where they fixed stuff about the drop penalty?
if not it's not helping me

[IronFist]

they have been having issues with the drop rates for awhile... mvps and treasure boxs both are effect... somehow >>

[Allysia]

did you jsut kill that after maint today? where they fixed stuff about the drop penalty?
if not it's not helping me

Yep, I killed him after few minutes that the server opened. I had 4 drops with the HE Bubble Gum.

Edited by Allysia, 24 March 2011 - 05:30 PM.

[DrAzzy]

Just bad luck. Bubble gum drop rates are capped at 90% (maybe 95%, i forget which, but it is capped).

Bubble gum also partially bypasses the drop penalty; say you have a 50% drop penalty, and an item's base drop rate is 20%. With no gum, the rate would be 10%, with gum, 30%, with HE, 50%.
That is to say, the drop penalty stacks additively with the gum effect, not multiplicatively.

[Myzery]

I thought that if you used gum on something that has around a 100% chance to drop, it sometimes won't drop or something like that.
Saw people complaining about it.

[Misery]

Just bad luck. Bubble gum drop rates are capped at 90% (maybe 95%, i forget which, but it is capped).

Bubble gum also partially bypasses the drop penalty; say you have a 50% drop penalty, and an item's base drop rate is 20%. With no gum, the rate would be 10%, with gum, 30%, with HE, 50%.
That is to say, the drop penalty stacks additively with the gum effect, not multiplicatively.

i know that
but i killed bee with a he gum
and mvp's shouldn't be affected by drop penalty
drops are :Items Rate
Broken Crown
90%
Chonchon Doll
55%
Variant Shoes
20%
Ledger of Death [2]
20%
Staff of Destruction [1]
20%
Bison Horn [1]
20%
Carnium
10%
Berzebub Card
0.02%

now do you wanna calculate me the odds of it just droping nothing with he gum jsut after they changed the way drop penalty is handled?

[brokenguy]

i know that
but i killed bee with a he gum
and mvp's shouldn't be affected by drop penalty
drops are :Items Rate
Broken Crown
90%
Chonchon Doll
55%
Variant Shoes
20%
Ledger of Death [2]
20%
Staff of Destruction [1]
20%
Bison Horn [1]
20%
Carnium
10%
Berzebub Card
0.02%

now do you wanna calculate me the odds of it just droping nothing with he gum jsut after they changed the way drop penalty is handled?

which server?

[DrAzzy]

i know that
but i killed bee with a he gum
and mvp's shouldn't be affected by drop penalty
drops are :Items Rate
Broken Crown
90%
Chonchon Doll
55%
Variant Shoes
20%
Ledger of Death [2]
20%
Staff of Destruction [1]
20%
Bison Horn [1]
20%
Carnium
10%
Berzebub Card
0.02%

now do you wanna calculate me the odds of it just droping nothing with he gum jsut after they changed the way drop penalty is handled?

On valk:

90% base chance -> 90% (if there was a full penalty, would still be 90%)
20% base chance -> 60% (if there was a full penalty, would be 50%)
10% base chance -> 30% (if there was a full penalty, would be 25%)

On ymir:
90% base chance -> 100% (if there was a full penalty, would be either 100% or 90%)
20% base chance -> 30% -> 90% (if there was a full penalty, would be 75%)
10% base chance -> 15% -> 45% (if there was a full penalty, would be 37.5%)

Card, there are a few theories, and I forget which one is right, it's between 0.03 and 0.07 for valk, 0.06 to 0.09 for Ymir, depending on how it's calculated. I don't feel like digging up the relevant threads atm.


He must have been on valk, though, if there were no drops, since drop rate of crown would be 100% on Ymir. It's unlikely to get nothing, but it is possible!

Also, did you use the HE gum on the charachter which had drop priority (ie, out of characters who are online and alive, the one who dealt the most damage to it (second form only), with damage dealt by the first person to hit it after it changed forms counting double)? You need to use it on the person who has drop priority, not the person who deals the final blow (if those arent the same person)

Edited by DrAzzy, 24 March 2011 - 09:07 PM.

[Misery]

solod bee no one else touched him

[brokenguy]

I still believe that Gum does not affect the drop rate of card unless a GM confirm or that it increase or does nothing to it.

The drop rate for card should be .04% according to the website, unless it's wrong. (for Ymir)

http://www.playragna...iumservice.aspx

[Axylus]

Can someone remind me why this system is still enabled when it only penalises human players and is obviously broken?

[Kitten]

Because logic has no place here.

[Wassail]

point of clarification, my understanding of gum is that it isnt a direct % increase, instead its a reroll on fail. so w/ HE gum you get the natural roll plus up to 2 reroll's, which is why you still can fail to get 90% drops, 1/1000th of the time (1/10 fail, x 1/10 fail, x 1/10 fail)

is this not correct?

[brokenguy]

Yes, Gum increase your chance by re-rolls. So even if it's 99% drop rate you still have a chance of failing with gum. Very low, but possible.

[Heimdallr]

There are 2 things being discussed here, I want to try and offer what I know on both.

1. Gum effect on Drops: From the testing I've done it essentially checks multiple times to see if it could get it to drop. In gaming terms lets say an item would drop on a roll of 6 on a die. HE Gum would roll 3 times, and take the best roll. If any rolled a 6 then that item pops out for you! We did do tests with cards, and as much as I believe they do work like that, it is very difficult to test with accurate numbers the card dropping. We were informed that it is supposed to work, and our experience makes us believe that this is the case. So yes it does effect cards.

2. MVPs (Treasure Box) and the level drop effect. The items you get from the "inserted reward" are not effected by the drop level comparison.
Items that pop out and land on the floor are effected by the level comparison. We know this is true, and it is something we reported as a bug for MVPs. But in the mean time we did increase the drop rate of items to compensate. We assume that the penalty is at the maximum 50% drop rate, and adjusted accordingly for those cases.


About your MVP being stingy, I can only say better luck on the next one, I know it is annoying but sometimes that does happen.

[DrAzzy]

There are 2 things being discussed here, I want to try and offer what I know on both.

1. Gum effect on Drops: From the testing I've done it essentially checks multiple times to see if it could get it to drop. In gaming terms lets say an item would drop on a roll of 6 on a die. HE Gum would roll 3 times, and take the best roll. If any rolled a 6 then that item pops out for you! We did do tests with cards, and as much as I believe they do work like that, it is very difficult to test with accurate numbers the card dropping. We were informed that it is supposed to work, and our experience makes us believe that this is the case. So yes it does effect cards.

Hmm, I thought it was determined a few months ago that gum was actually a straight multiplication capped at 90%, not the "multiple roll" theory, as everyone had thought (for several years - based on the observation that 50% drop + gum != 100% drop, and because in most test cases, it's very hard to tell the difference.... Can't seem to find the thread though - the forum search is not returning as many results as it should.

Edit: Doddler confirms over MSN, that it works as a straight multiplier. This came to light fairly recently, apparently.

Until i think either early 2011 or late 2010, the accepted wisdom was that it worked via "multiple rolls"

Edited by DrAzzy, 25 March 2011 - 02:40 PM.

[Puppet]

last I checked the drop nerf effect mvps to, so if u out of range of it there penalty unless this has changed? Or if you knew this already are say there drops are even worse?

[Dantemss]

Hmm, I thought it was determined a few months ago that gum was actually a straight multiplication capped at 90%, not the "multiple roll" theory, as everyone had thought (for several years - based on the observation that 50% drop + gum != 100% drop, and because in most test cases, it's very hard to tell the difference.... Can't seem to find the thread though - the forum search is not returning as many results as it should.

Edit: Doddler confirms over MSN, that it works as a straight multiplier. This came to light fairly recently, apparently.

Until i think either early 2011 or late 2010, the accepted wisdom was that it worked via "multiple rolls"

Pretty sure gum works like heim said and that's why gums only exist in multiples of 100%.

Now kRO might have added items that work differently, but they are devs and have the power to code more stuff than iRO. Maybe the new items work differently (to get around the limitation that exists for gum).

And of course everybody knows drop events work as straight multiplications with no cap.

[jax5]

Hmm, I thought it was determined a few months ago that gum was actually a straight multiplication capped at 90%, not the "multiple roll" theory, as everyone had thought (for several years - based on the observation that 50% drop + gum != 100% drop, and because in most test cases, it's very hard to tell the difference.... Can't seem to find the thread though - the forum search is not returning as many results as it should.

Edit: Doddler confirms over MSN, that it works as a straight multiplier. This came to light fairly recently, apparently.

Until i think either early 2011 or late 2010, the accepted wisdom was that it worked via "multiple rolls"

I don't think it works as a straight multiplier, else how could the christmas event phenomena be explained? Undelivered gifts did not drop without gum, but did with it on. A straight multiplier of 0% would still be 0%.

Furthermore, straight multiplier with cap of 90% does not seem likely either. On valk, I was around for the majority of satan morroc kills during the most recent drops event. Even though he gum was used, not once did the mvp not drop robe, armor, and boots (base chance on each is 50% according to a couple databases).

Edited by jax5, 25 March 2011 - 08:01 PM.

[Allysia]

About your MVP being stingy, I can only say better luck on the next one, I know it is annoying but sometimes that does happen.

Yep, I agree with you, after almost 2 years of hunt and my storages flooding of loot like every merchants that I made with the name of the specific Drop, still no card...So this is really bad luck!
Doesn't matter how many HE Gums you use or kills you take, if the MVP is stingy you will never see the card.(Sob ;__; )

Edited by Allysia, 27 March 2011 - 01:53 PM.