209 replies to this topic

[Kadnya]

Who really finds it more fun to lay dead safely until seal rolls more fun and a more fair effort than guild fighting for the control of the dwarves?

Not allowing tokens of Siegfried is a great decision, I'm looking forward to how the guild dungeon fights will be ^^

Edit: also, don't forget to reduce magnus exorcismus cast to half, quadruple the damage of judex, double/triple the damage of Adoramus, make ancillas storageable/able to hold more, double the bishop HP mod, and all those changes you keep forgetting week after week.

Edited by Kadnya, 02 June 2011 - 08:03 AM.

[renouille]

Good changes to the god item creation process. I feel as though that'll be more than enough to prevent people from stealing seal rolls.

It prevents small groups from "stealing" from large groups. It doesn't prevent large groups from "stealing" from small groups. (Not that this bothers me, but to say it just prevents stealing is inaccurate.)

imo, I think you could prevent the chat join from off-screen problem if you kept que_god01t as the hallway race. Rather than joining a chat at the end of it, however, you place a portal there that a player must walk into. Then, after you walk into it, you're sent to another map (maybe que_god01tt...a map different than the hallway race) and as soon as you load, there's the chat room. Kind of like the KVM and BG waiting rooms. You talk to a npc to get into the room and as soon as you enter the room, you have to enter a chat to reserve your spot and be placed on a team.

So clone the KVM/BG map with the floating, individual waiting rooms, rename it to que_god01tt or something. And then have it go:

Dwarf -> Hallway on que_god01t with a portal at the end where the old chat join used to be -> KVM/BG type waiting room on a new, cloned map with a chat room you have to join

This way, you wouldn't have to worry about people joining the chat from off-screen because 1) the end of the hallway is a portal that you'd have to walk through, and 2) the chat would be on a different map.

Sounds similar to mine, except mine didn't require yet another map.

[Beata]

Token of Siegfried will no longer work in Guild dungeon

Good change even though it favors bigger guilds vs smaller ones. At the end its all about who click faster unless the whole final stages in creation are revamped in order to reflect the real effort put in the created item (ie. gd dwarfs and the hallway).

[MagicHands]

HAHA I was faster and already put that the backslide may be temporary. To my recolection Thiefs and their evolved classes have never had the ability to moonwalk in WoE, lets see what happens.

If it is as broken as you think then it won't stay.

The exp changes are on hold, we discussed with the Development team and we do want to be sure this something that can be permanent and not a short term thing that needs reverted down the road. This is speaking on the idea of actually changing exp values of monsters, and not just doing something to the "level penalty".

Like Andini put it those who know how to backslide move faster than any other character including snap. Haha this should be interesting

[AtlasThunderbeef]

/bingbing
/bangbang

/movefasterthananyoneelse

[Akin]

Having to control GD instead of pressing res token and having a faster computer IS a good change. Jesus.

I very much agree and it's been a long time coming, but I'd like to play devil's advocate. Won't this change give larger guilds/alliances a monopoly on god item 1 creation similar to the monopoly they have on god item 2 creation? It seems like removing the ability to ninja (all cheating aside), limits the ability of smaller guilds to make said items. It's just a moot point, however, because if I correctly understand the new god item creation plan that Heim is talking about implementing, there won't really be any benefit to ninja-ing, but in rolling the seals. When are we getting that change btw?

@ the warp portal nerf: if someone forgets to bring a b-wing to GD, is there any other way out then except for guild recall, marriage/baby recall, or death? Once man hole gets fixed, maybe we can put warp portal back in. Better yet, throw a eden group npc into guild dungeons.

[renouille]

@ the warp portal nerf: if someone forgets to bring a b-wing to GD, is there any other way out then except for guild recall, marriage/baby recall, or death? Once man hole gets fixed, maybe we can put warp portal back in. Better yet, throw a eden group npc into guild dungeons.

relog

ETA: I hope they don't forget to disable DBs/BBs there.

Edited by renouille, 02 June 2011 - 08:56 AM.

[Ardi]

It prevents small groups from "stealing" from large groups. It doesn't prevent large groups from "stealing" from small groups. (Not that this bothers me, but to say it just prevents stealing is inaccurate.)

This... Basically Lamb was QQing about smaller guilds ninjaing larger ones do to timing and planning (ignoring the hallway bug fiasco) I know for a fact that a few god items would NOT have been made for my guild and it wouldve been +3 for larger guilds if this was implimented. We can currently time the seal quests to give us an advantage WHEN WE ARE ROLLING ourselves so we don't get rolled by a 50+ alliance in the one GD we have. Yes you sit dead and sigfriend... but you also currently can get deep sleeped while dead and that is just dumb in itself. So one guild can sit there dead while the other spams deep sleep on the dead person.
but so can any other guild leader that wants to. Then it just comes down to who can click faster. Any nerf to allow less ninjaing or planning only harms smaller guilds rolling themselves.
tldr- I say leave it as it is (minus the anti cheat fix) until you implement a better way to make rolling fair for both the smaller and bigger guilds (ninjaing is what makes the current rolls fun)

Edit-was misinformed about deep sleep..

Edited by Ardi, 02 June 2011 - 09:36 AM.

[Charon]

^ This.

Plus no more changes to other classes? like reducing fixed cast time on Warlock's skills? lol... or mounts or something new for a change?

You probably mean wiz skills right?

Because they simply forgot to adjust wiz AoEs the same way that they adjusted Warlock skills in a patch long ago.
They noticed that the standard 80/20% cast setup was too harsh for warlocks long spells.
So they simply changed it so the fixed portion was reduced to 1 s for all Warlock skills.

It would make perfect sense to do the same with SG, LoV and MS.
And since this has been custom applied to ME here on iRO in a recent maint, this is definitely worth proposing

So in bold for gms to notice XD:
Storm Gust, Lord of Vermillion, Meteor Storm -> fixed cast part reduce to 1 second (11s variable)

And with "the other classes" you can only mean Sniper and performer skills, which they already changed over 2 maintenances actually, but didn't realise that no one is complaining about long delays, but the fixed casts, which weren't there before renewal when even the normal cast was short with the usual huge dex numbers on any bow class.

Melody Strike/Slinging Arrow, Blitz Beat, Arrow Vulcan, Focused Arrow Strike, Falcon Assault -> fixed cast part changed into variable (if it's 1sVC.+1sFC. make it 2sVC.)

Then there is some more mage branch skills which you will currently not see anyone use (except patient mages energy coating in pvm?)

Energy Coat, Ganbantein, Gravitation Field -> from 5sFC into 4sVC+1sFC

There is no reason why these should have 5 seconds fixed, it's not adding strategy it takes it away since the latter 2 skills are rendered useless, just a waste of time in a fast game like RO.

Thunderstorm -> 8+2 to 9+1
Heaven's Drive -> 5+1 to 4.5+0.5

And you might see someone casting those again, in lower pvm.

Also a skill that was essential of the sage cls itself pre-renewal, but sees no use right now due to being fully fixed (and green ales don't help it obviously):

Soul Exhale -> 3sFC to 2.4+0.6

And one forgotten skill with a boring cast just when you need it fast.

Basilica -> 9s to 3s

Of course if you don't want Kad to kill us all,

Magnus Exorcismus -> 7+1

That's basically it.

If you ain't lazy or have way too much work with next weeks event, why not? I'm sure people would appreciate it, ranging from the wizies who aren't 3rd cls yet, to hunters being able to play their chars much closer to what they were, performers writing songs for you instead of being emo, and Kad not killing us all, what could you want more

Note that these changes will barely make a difference in "3rd cls balance" *chuckle*, but make ppl have more fun while going towards 3rd cls

Edited by Charon, 02 June 2011 - 09:38 AM.

[renouille]

Yes you sit dead and sigfriend... but you also currently can get deep sleeped while dead and that is just dumb in itself. So one guild can sit there dead while the other spams deep sleep on the dead person.

Deep sleep is useless as I already pointed out in the topic on it. Ressing unfreezes your sprite allowing you to talk to the NPC, and getting warped to the hall which is on a different server removes the effect altogether.

[Ardi]

I heard differently... thanks for informing (gonna remove that part)

[Lambor]

It doesn't necessarily favor big guilds. It favors organized guilds. When we're COMPLETLY ORGANIZED, we're able to provide about 8-10 people for GD wars when it comes time for god item creation.

Hopefully, smaller guilds will ally up and put forth a fight. GD is meant for wars. And I know that, personally, we have no intentions of stealing rolls from any of the smaller guilds.

Ex: The leader of Absolution came to me asking for support when it came time for him to roll the seals. I said just let me know when it is and we'll help you out. Do I want to ally them? No. Do I want to steal from them, though? No. And do I want them to get ninjaed like we did? No. I don't want to farm all of the god items and steal from everybody. That's not my intention. My intention is to get what we work for. If other people are willing to work towards the seals, we're more than willing to help you guys in GD make your item so long as you aren't Genji, Delight, Punishment/Delusion, Yoink, CS, or Invision. Way too many bones to pick there. Now those...we will comp.

Anybody else, hit me up. We know what it's like to get ninjaed.

People, myself included, complain that this is a dead server. Hopefully this GD change alone will build up some NAPs and Alliances. I know that there are a lot of PVM guilds out there that are exponentially more active than we are and if they wanted, they could ruin our GD control when we're rolling the seals.

Edited by Lambor, 02 June 2011 - 09:54 AM.

[Tribe]

How is the new "fair" god item creation going to work?

I wonder if it will be like once your guild has done say 200(or some other number)seal quests you can make a god item without comp... Would be ok for smaller guilds but larger richer guilds would be making gods non stop.

Just hope Heim gets it right.

[Ardi]

It doesn't necessarily favor big guilds. It favors organized guilds. When we're COMPLETLY ORGANIZED, we're able to provide about 8-10 people for GD wars when it comes time for god item creation.

Hopefully, smaller guilds will ally up and put forth a fight. GD is meant for wars. And I know that, personally, we have no intentions of stealing rolls from any of the smaller guilds.
My intention is to get what we work for. If other people are willing to work towards the seals, we're more than willing to help you guys in GD make your item so long as you aren't Genji, Delight, Punishment/Delusion, Yoink, CS, or Invision. Way too many bones to pick there. Now those...we will comp.

Anybody else, hit me up. We know what it's like to get ninjaed.

Rofl.... and how many people does Yoink, Delight and Genji have? I think those qualify as a small guild (then again its always fun to have enemies!)

[FatalityX]

Is the KVM Badge to Valor/Honor Badge converting npc going to be put in place this maintenance or next maintenance. Really looking forward to this =].

[Gabe22400]

How is the new "fair" god item creation going to work?

I wonder if it will be like once your guild has done say 200(or some other number)seal quests you can make a god item without comp... Would be ok for smaller guilds but larger richer guilds would be making gods non stop.

Just hope Heim gets it right.

You are forgetting that smaller guilds don't roll the seals (except seal 2, cut the exp from 5M to 1M and see how much seal 2 will be done by the server). The biggest time sink, money (reset box and zeny), energy, and sanity is doing those quest, not the GD wars. If possible, the big guilds would want to avoids that because:

A) "Small guilds" is just 1 guild leader running next to the dwarf and dying. When the seals release they rez, dialog bypass, and instant teleport into the item creation room.

Big guilds fight to defend their roll, since its their members that rolled the seals. Big guilds will not run in a ninja your seal rolls if you talk to them first, telling them you will attempt a seal roll on a given date.

[Pooru]

hmm why not enable charge attack as well in woe ?

[Ardi]

You act like smaller guilds don't help their leaders... and please see lambs message... Yoink gets 10 people on a good day to woe, and we help in GD if we are given warning... we roll the seals ourselves (and ninja a few) and guess what? We get no sympathy from larger guilds because of previous incidents that put as as 'the enemy' (lol @ 20+ AB/Animosity in our only GD against our 5)

Work =/= Reward in this system or by implementing the no res tokens. Smaller guilds can roll the seals and get it taken by larger guilds just because of numbers alone.

Edited by Ardi, 02 June 2011 - 11:18 AM.

[Beata]

I think numbers at this given time play a rule. In regards to gd wars bigger guilds can spread accordingly in each gd to secure their creation or ninja other's. Smaller guilds will be handicapped when it comes to this and its a given. Unless such guilds merge together and or be more organized with each other then they won't have a chance. Removing the effect of self res in gd will simply make that more clearer.

[Susan]

You are forgetting that smaller guilds don't roll the seals

A.) Wrong
B.) When smaller guilds roll the seals it takes each individual more effort.

And I know that, personally, we have no intentions of stealing rolls from any of the smaller guilds.

...so long as you aren't Genji, Delight, Punishment/Delusion, Yoink, CS, or Invision. Now those...we will comp.

[Lambor]

...Unless such guilds merge together and or be more organized with each other then they won't have a chance...

Maybe it's time for people to stop thinking that they can solo create god items and start working as a team. We haven't made 1 item solo. It's too risky. So we work as a group.

But, correct. Genji, Yoink, and Delight can no longer ninja rolls. All of your members seem close ingame. Maybe you guys shouldn't be 3 different guilds running around with 8 people. =\

The new system tl/dr: Work together and stand a chance or work alone and get nowhere.

Complaining that smaller guilds won't have a chance isn't a valid argument at all because we don't stand a chance alone either. You guys wonder why we still have an alliance. Well...this is it. So we can farm Bryns and make WoE 1.0s until we're content.

[Lambor]

I think Susan should ask which guilds approached us and asked for help and which guilds we denied. (I'll give you half of the answer, and that's to the latter: none).

Susan's whole post:

Sorry your guild does nothing but ninja.

EDIT: Waddle

Edited by Lambor, 02 June 2011 - 11:58 AM.

[Gabe22400]

A.) Wrong
B.) When smaller guilds roll the seals it takes each individual more effort.

So you are saying small guilds roll 1 or 2 seals and are entitled to steal a roll from big guilds? If the big guilds let the small guilds roll, it will take weeks, and it will still be ninja away from other guilds that cheat and rez.

[Lambor]

Small guilds only push Seal 1 (EASSSSY ). They wait for big guilds like us to do Seals 3 and 4. I haven't seen anybody push Seals 3 and 4 aside from guilds in our alliance. Maybe it happened.........................once?

[Viri]

1 and 2 roll themselves. o dan already said it. 3 and 4 are the choke point now.