24 replies to this topic

[Bahamut2]

I mean... like how many +7 items i need to effectively make a +9 one?
I know the percentages already (like 20%) but because with HD elu, when it fails it goes to +6, i have to use enriched elu to try to do it +7 again and have a big chance to break :/
So... generally, i know you need like 100 HD elus to make it +9, but what is the chance the item may break when it goes to +6 again? (i know it is like 60%, i just want to know an estimation of a general chance, because im about to +9 an expensive item and i only ahve two +7 of them, and i want to know if it worths to try my luck >.< because generally im not much lucky)

Thanks... (sorry for my english, its hard for me to explain this xD)

Edited by Bahamut2, 21 July 2011 - 05:03 PM.

[Easly]

you dont have to use enriched if it goes below +7 unless you close the dialog with the npc or have no more zeny/hd ores left

also on average it takes 260 hd ori/elu it could be more or less depending on how lucky you are

Edited by Easly, 21 July 2011 - 05:12 PM.

[Nitro]

If you try your luck, you might end up frustrated. Get HD ore and you will get it +9 easily.

[Wiggles]

I think the average was somewhere around 280 HD Ores for +9.

When the ores first came out, I made an upgrading simulator with random number generator based on RO's code (thanks to anonymous source).
You can find it here; http://www.healplz.com/index.php?id=3 or in my signature.

Someone else also did a massive amount of maths (but statistics isn't my strong point). After we looked at the numbers, the statistical maths plus my random simulator pulled almost identical numbers. It was around 250-280. I cant remember.

[Randalf]

Yeah, as people have said, you can use HD Elu as long as you don't close dialogue with the blacksmith. Get used to seeing your precious item alternating between +3 and +4 before you get a lucky streak, though.

[Intrigue]

I thought the minimum or average was 200. I guess I should go with 275 nowadays then

You can take 50 HDs to get to +9 or 200+. Depends on your luck really.

[Zinja]

i have seen people use 500-600 hd ori and make their kvm from +7 to +4 :| without even touching +9 even once :|

[Kenichi]

my best was 2 ores for +9, ~50 for +10, worst was ~150 +9. i had an average of ~100 to get +9, but im not an hardcore upgrader.
heard ppl spending tons on these, comes down to luck. since i cant +7 anything i try

[Hrothmund]

You still want to have at least 300-400 before you start to give a good safety net. I'll stop if HD's fall below 100 as soon as i get back to +7.

[lightmike]

My philosophy is better safe than sorry should probably keep more than the average of what it takes, that's just me.

[renouille]

+7 -> +9 armor: average 260

If instead your situation is:
1. you have 50 ores
2. you're going to upgrade a +7 armor using HD
3. you want to know the probability of failing

... then what you want is:

(1) probability of failure (where failure = never getting to +7) from +6 -> +7 using HD ores with 49 HD ores (490KP) = 1 - 0.96353 = 0.03647
(2) probability of failure on first try from +7 -> +8 using HD ore = 0.8
(3) (1) * (2) = 0.029176 (~2.9%)

[Hacks]

having blown tons of cash on this and ended up far worse than when i started the vast majority of the time, i really feel the chances of success are far too low. you should be able to reach +9 within 50 ores. i mean come on, the cap is +20 and with the current increase in rate of failure, the majority of users will never own a single piece of equipment over +9. upgrades of +12 or more are nearly impossible without the aid of cash shop items, and even then the improvement to your chances are negligable. i'm sorry but if i spend $20 and millions of zeny to upgrade a single item from +7 to +4 (no thats not a typo), something is wrong here. failure on these ores really needs some looking at. i'd suggest instead to implement a 50% chance to keep your current upgrade level on the item on failure instead of the 100% downgrade. here's some pseudo-code to show my idea.

IF (SUCCESS) THEN
UPGRADE ITEM
MESSAGE("OH GOD I CAN FEEL IT VIBRATING")
ELSE
IF (FIFTYPERCENTCHANCE) THEN
MESSAGE("OH CRAP MY HAMMER SLIPPED, ATLEAST I DIDNT MAKE IT ANY WORSE")
ELSE
DOWNGRADE ITEM
MESSAGE("OH LOL I HIT IT BACKWARDS, THANKS FOR THE MONEY THOUGH!")
END IF 
END IF

[Shunchan]

I call the failure from +4 to +3 a "complementary downgrade".

I always imagine Mighty Hammer whenever he does that say, "Since I've messed up your item from +7~+8 to +4 in a failure streak, why not bring it all the way down to +3?"

You still want to have at least 300-400 before you start to give a good safety net. I'll stop if HD's fall below 100 as soon as i get back to +7.

Can't think of any advice better than this. I've only started upgrading past +7 during the upgrade event and I haven't had anything fall below +7 on my failure attempts by following this.

Even if only 2 HD ores out of 300+ were used to upgrade to +9, the remaining ones can still be used either for future plans to upgrade gear or buying some expensive +7 items (CoD, RWH, etc.) and upgrading them to +9 to sell for profit.

[Kiryu]

also don't forget the guy who sit next to you trying to ask you questions... D: happen thrice yesterday and really tick me off

also spent 200 hd to get a +8 but the +3 is a joke really

Edited by Kiryu, 22 July 2011 - 11:42 PM.

[Easly]

i love it when my gears go +4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3+4+3

[cRoc]

Yeah there is.... i got more than 20 +9 and up items xD 5 of them kvm items =DDD

[Bahamut2]

Guys i REALLY appreciate all those replys, i really didn't know that i could still use HD ores even if the item goes below +7 when trying to upgrade, that really helps a lot, i tought i had to use enriched elus then

Also, the advice of mr hrothmund is the best i've read here: "You still want to have at least 300-400 before you start to give a good safety net. I'll stop if HD's fall below 100 as soon as i get back to +7."
Good one, i think it may help.

Just a little question, isnt better to have like 3 or 4 +7 items, and then try my luck, and if one item falls below +7 just try the other ones?
What would be the chance if i have three +7 items, to do any of those three from +7 to +9, if i just try with another item when it falls below +7? Because i think the frustration comes when an item goes below +7 and then it wont come back to +7 anymore XD Woudlnt it be better to just try to get 3 or 4 +7 items and try your luck? Is the change worst or better this way?

And if i fail all items and get them to +6 then i can just upgrade all of them with enriched elu, then i could get like one of them +7 for a final chance of luck.
Is that better os just keep using HD forever?

Thx...

[Ralis]

It's all a matter of luck. In 25 HD Oris I got my Imperial Spear to +10.

For other things I haven't even been able to +9 them.

Edited by Ralis, 23 July 2011 - 10:08 AM.

[MeisterKirisaki]

Also, the advice of mr hrothmund is the best i've read here: "You still want to have at least 300-400 before you start to give a good safety net. I'll stop if HD's fall below 100 as soon as i get back to +7."
Good one, i think it may help.

More specifically, you can still open HD Elu/Ori boxes even if you're in the dialogue with the upgrade NPC; just open another box when your pile of Elu/Ori falls below a certain number. Once you're successful with your upgrade attempts, you're not left with 300 untradable Elu/Ori but with resaleable boxes instead.

Edited by MeisterKirisaki, 23 July 2011 - 11:40 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

I remember getting my Glorious Destruction Staff to +9 using 47 HD Ores. I was really bummed about it because I thought I was unlucky but then my guildies told me it takes more than 200 HD ores to get a +9 on average. They were like "WTF, you're so lucky!" xD

[Enkiadu]

Guys i REALLY appreciate all those replys, i really didn't know that i could still use HD ores even if the item goes below +7 when trying to upgrade, that really helps a lot, i tought i had to use enriched elus then

Also, the advice of mr hrothmund is the best i've read here: "You still want to have at least 300-400 before you start to give a good safety net. I'll stop if HD's fall below 100 as soon as i get back to +7."
Good one, i think it may help.

Just a little question, isnt better to have like 3 or 4 +7 items, and then try my luck, and if one item falls below +7 just try the other ones?
What would be the chance if i have three +7 items, to do any of those three from +7 to +9, if i just try with another item when it falls below +7? Because i think the frustration comes when an item goes below +7 and then it wont come back to +7 anymore XD Woudlnt it be better to just try to get 3 or 4 +7 items and try your luck? Is the change worst or better this way?

And if i fail all items and get them to +6 then i can just upgrade all of them with enriched elu, then i could get like one of them +7 for a final chance of luck.
Is that better os just keep using HD forever?

Thx...

whatever you do, DO NOT stop upgrading an item when it gets to +6. if you try to use another item when you get to +6, you will just end up with a bunch of +6 items waiting to break with enriched. just get 1 item at +7 that you want to upgrade, and bring a lot of HD. if it falls below +7 just keep going, if at any time you feel like you are not going to have enough HD to make it to +9, AT LEAST TRY to make it back to +7 so you don't have to risk breaking the item if you want to go for +9 in the future

EDIT: To be more clear, do not close the dialog box without your item being at least +7 unless you just run out of ore. there is no benefit of stopping below +7

Edited by Enkiadu, 24 July 2011 - 04:21 PM.

[Lelouch]

More specifically, you can still open HD Elu/Ori boxes even if you're in the dialogue with the upgrade NPC; just open another box when your pile of Elu/Ori falls below a certain number. Once you're successful with your upgrade attempts, you're not left with 300 untradable Elu/Ori but with resaleable boxes instead.

crazy....I never knew that. I learned something new today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rhQc666Sg

[Bahamut2]

More specifically, you can still open HD Elu/Ori boxes even if you're in the dialogue with the upgrade NPC; just open another box when your pile of Elu/Ori falls below a certain number. Once you're successful with your upgrade attempts, you're not left with 300 untradable Elu/Ori but with resaleable boxes instead.

This is really helpfull too, just one question, can you still buy HD elus from the kafra NPC while you have the upgrade window open? lol

[MrBudd]

No you can't buy boxes only open them. Dont know why anyone wouldnt just open all the boxes since the excess can be stored.

[Fibrizzo]

Weapons lvl 1. They are quite easy to get them +9. Even +10