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Battle Sage or Battle Priest?


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#1 seraphbowler

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 04:25 AM

I want to make a new character.

Should i make a Battle Sage or a Battle Priest?

Edited by seraphbowler, 02 August 2011 - 03:55 AM.

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#2 Noumi

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:55 AM

Definitely Battle Priest.

Battle Sage build sucks once u move on to 3rd class. As Battle Sage Depends on the auto bolt skill where u have a chance to auto cast bolts. You are not able to auto cast anything in your 3rd class skill tree, and have to rely back on manual casting them, which defeats the whole purpose of a battle sage.

Battle Priest on the other hand has this wonderful skill once turned AB called duple light, which summon's 2 balls that have a high chance of dealing 200% ATK or 400% MATK on each physical attack. 2 very fun ways to go about playing your Battle AB, one is high crit, the other is Perma stun.

The high crit uses a Spike [2] With 2 SS or racial crit cards and 2 Bradium Brooches [Kobold]. The Bradium Brooches require 120 base AGI to give 4 more crit. With the kobold cards each will give 8 crit. A +7 Little Feather Hat for 15% additional Crit Damage. After Glora to 100 total luck you will have almost 100% crit. a +9 garment (Preferbly Valk or Dragon Manteau) with green maiden card will make your crit hit 100. You'd be dealing 1K+ crits.

The perma stun uses a Stunner [2] with 2 Savage Babe Cards. At high ASPD > 180, you will purma stun alot of monsters.

Edited by Noumi, 03 August 2011 - 10:58 AM.

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#3 seraphbowler

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:48 PM

i was planning on using a stunner with savage bebe cards... dont have it yet, but plan to if i were to go battle priest.

still havent decided and still have time to...if anyone have more info on BA and BS that would be awesome!

Thanks
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#4 Anchors

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 07:45 AM

I haven't played a battle job3 class - only through job2. I think battle PRIEST is pretty boring - buff, ctrl click alt tab til you stop hearing smacking noises - but it's pretty easy with Heal + Magnificat + damage prevention skills which mean you never have to use any items aside from aspd pots. The skills will even make up somewhat for the need to have great gear for good meleeing. Even if you have just plain Stunner (or VVS elemental stunners which is what I ended up with against non-undead), 180+ aspd will still keep your target stunned significant amount of the time it's alive. I can only imagine that Duple Light just makes target lifespan even shorter, but it's also the only skill you can use to great effect with melee. Everything else is basically geared towards party support except Ancilla, which I guess you could use as a mid-battle emergency SP recovery item...

I found battle SAGE pretty interesting. (I did switch to pure caster upon transcending, however, since I wanted to spam AoEs as a sorc.) Hindsight adds significant DPS even without a soul link (although the link really does make a high aspd melee sage much better and more visually entertaining /swt). Free casting lv10 on top of that with a phen card and/or safety wall boosts DPS a bit more, and tossing in a heal clip will reduce item usage pretty much to just aspd pots. If general autocasting is your thing, though, I'm told (though never tested) that hindsight spells and autocast gear/card spells won't proc on the same melee hit...

Battle sorc picks up spell fist. I have no experience with this skill myself, but I did meet an agi/int battle sorc using this skill in ID3 dealing 10k hits with SFed lightning bolt. Apparently, it cannot miss; at least, this sorc never missed and he had no dex. Also, you can interrupt any bolt casting, including shift-targeting a player (even though the bolt itself would never actually go off) in a non-PvP environment. It also apparently can proc with Double Attack (chick hat, snake hat, sidewinder card).

Striking also boosts your atk significantly if you pick up the endow spells.

Although the other skills a sorc can pick up are not 100% dedicated to melee, they can at least boost your damage output. You gain a bit more potential for mob control in casting AoE spells while free-cast-meleeing your primary target. Specifically, diamond dust can "crystallize" opponents, varetyr spear can stun, earth grave causes bleeding, killing cloud can poison, and extreme vacuum removes targets from battle entirely for a short time. Arrullo is currently enabled only in PvP/WoE, but I heard it (and other deep sleep effects) will become enabled universally at some point. (No idea when, but...)

On top of that, the summons boost various aspects of your character when you have them out in whichever mode, and insignias can provide various effects if you stand on them, although I'm not familiar with these branches of the sorc skill tree at all. Level 3 Ventus in Passive mode seems to add a flat +aspd bonus, though, which is nice.
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#5 seraphbowler

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 10:37 AM

okay, so far:

Battle Priest = 1
Battle Sage = 1

both good posts!
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#6 seraphbowler

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 10:46 AM

I found battle SAGE pretty interesting. (I did switch to pure caster upon transcending, however, since I wanted to spam AoEs as a sorc.) Hindsight adds significant DPS even without a soul link (although the link really does make a high aspd melee sage much better and more visually entertaining /swt). Free casting lv10 on top of that with a phen card and/or safety wall boosts DPS a bit more, and tossing in a heal clip will reduce item usage pretty much to just aspd pots. If general autocasting is your thing, though, I'm told (though never tested) that hindsight spells and autocast gear/card spells won't proc on the same melee hit...


If i were to be a sage, i would focus not only on HS, but more towards Endow, Stone Curse with Volcano with Endow Blaze, or Frost Driver with Whirlwind with Endow Tornado, those types of combos i would be most interested in doing with a battle Sage

Priest would be as you suggested, Avoiding damage and protecting myself while stunning as fast as possible.

Thanks!
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#7 Anchors

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 11:14 AM

Endows on the whole might be worth it because the majority of your atk will be from your weapon (at least, if you get a ton of int for the spells and agi for the aspd), but, although you might get in a few hits on earth element with Stone Curse, you'd have to pre-cast Volcano in order to get any use out of that. That might work in a party where you have pullers in an insanely mobby map (like nogg road 2, although you'd use Deluge there), but not solo. Endow Tornado + Whirlwind + Frost Diver is only going to be good for a single hit (frozen status disappears once the target gets hit with anything that deals at least 1 damage) with no guarantee of HS activating - not even remotely worth the cost of the materials, and especially not worth it when the only wind hit against a frozen target will be your melee hit, and you're probably not going to go for melee damage - at least, not until job3 where you have Striking.

Someone wrote that manual casts defeat the purpose of a HS battle sage. I disagree. I would say that the purpose of a HS/Free cast sage would be the ability to cast multiple spells just about simultaneously. That said, although you might spam the elemental field spells everywhere for HS with the appropriate bolt spell, you also might take advantage of free cast to either eliminate secondary targets or to deal cast multiple spells quickly on a single target.
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#8 Noumi

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 01:28 AM

Battle Sages requires you to sink AGI and STR into your build. That would sacrifice the amount of INT and DEX that you can add. which is definitely going to affect your manual casting. Your spells will be slower, and they will deal less damage.

It is fortunate there is a weapon called dagger of counter which battle sages can uses. gives +90 crit. so you would be able to hit anything regardless of flee. Why I say manual casting the 3rd class spells defeats the purpose of a HS battle sage is becos, as a HS battle sage, you should only manual cast lvl 10 cold or fire bolt with 2x Siroma or Imp Clips, and not those 3rd class skills. This is cause while attacking, free cast allows u to cast the lvl 10 bolt simultaneously and converge it into Fist spell, and per hit you will deal damage equavalent of a lvl 15 bolt. which would be about 3K damage per hit for the next 6 hits. Sounds nice... But bear in mind a 120 Int Sorc can cast a skill called psysic wave which does 3K++ Damage x7 waves... and its 11x11 AOE. With only 1 second cast delay. Much faster than you will need to make 7 melee hits.

Seeing that, unless they include 3rd class skills in hindsight, I really don't see a point in battle sage builds anymore.

Edited by Noumi, 10 August 2011 - 01:28 AM.

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#9 seraphbowler

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 04:40 AM

thanks for the input everyone ^^

Both build would act at Secondary damage OR support.
BS would endow/change element and strengthen elements as well as provide additional melee damage on the battlefield.
BP would support with buffs, KE, SW and provide additional melee damage on the battlefield.

I dont want to stick to JUST support or JUST damage.
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#10 NeoNilox

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 08:48 AM

This is cause while attacking, free cast allows u to cast the lvl 10 bolt simultaneously and converge it into Fist spell, and per hit you will deal damage equavalent of a lvl 15 bolt. which would be about 3K damage per hit for the next 6 hits.


If an experienced player does 2k damage per Lv10 Bolt (with the right element) it means that something is wrong <_<

During my Hindseer Sage days (Hindseer Scholar btw), I was leveling at Magmaring map with a linker slave (I'm really sorry but I had to do it), with certain gears I could deal around 5k ~ 7k dmg per Cold Bolt 10 with 1 SiromaC (I know it's not very much, i was using a +5 Principles of Magic anyway). So with the same gear I'd do around 7.5k ~ 10.5k dmg for the next 6 melee hits (estimation) when I were under Spell Fist effects... It doesn't look so terrible IMO, specially if I leave the books for a Soul Staff + Spiritual Ring.
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#11 Anchors

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 11:02 AM

Battle Sages requires you to sink AGI and STR into your build. That would sacrifice the amount of INT and DEX that you can add. which is definitely going to affect your manual casting. Your spells will be slower, and they will deal less damage.

It is fortunate there is a weapon called dagger of counter which battle sages can uses. gives +90 crit. so you would be able to hit anything regardless of flee. Why I say manual casting the 3rd class spells defeats the purpose of a HS battle sage is becos, as a HS battle sage, you should only manual cast lvl 10 cold or fire bolt with 2x Siroma or Imp Clips, and not those 3rd class skills. This is cause while attacking, free cast allows u to cast the lvl 10 bolt simultaneously and converge it into Fist spell, and per hit you will deal damage equavalent of a lvl 15 bolt. which would be about 3K damage per hit for the next 6 hits. Sounds nice... But bear in mind a 120 Int Sorc can cast a skill called psysic wave which does 3K++ Damage x7 waves... and its 11x11 AOE. With only 1 second cast delay. Much faster than you will need to make 7 melee hits.

Seeing that, unless they include 3rd class skills in hindsight, I really don't see a point in battle sage builds anymore.


PW has a long cast time and that cast delay of only one second is only its global cooldown (cast delay). The cooldown specific to the spell itself is long enough to cast two of the other AoE spells, global cooldowns included. Casting other spells normally is possible during its cooldown, but casting with melee is available at just about any time you have Hindsight and/or Fist Spell on thanks to both Free Cast (for enabling melee and movement during cast times) and players' natural ability to melee during almost any type of cooldown.

I don't think Fist Spell is something you would cast while you're attacking a monster unless it's still alive after you've used it up. I'm not sure but I'd guess that it would interrupt ctrl+click melee. If anything, pre-cast it (on another player or monster).

It's all about efficiently using the time Free Cast opens up for you to balance your magic and melee effectively. For instance, in the event that you're stuck in a mob and you've used all your hits of Fist Spell, cast an AoE spell (or better yet a DOT spell like Killing Cloud or Psychic Wave) and re-prepare your Fist Spell. Cast another AoE spell and whack away at your primary target while you're casting. As long as your mob is still alive, keep casting AoEs to cut them down while using your magic-enhanced melee against your main targets.

That said, I don't think Str is necessary at all unless you're planning on absolutely SPAMMING Killing Cloud (2 RGems? insofar as it's spammable) and Safety Wall (1 BGem) everywhere. Int and Agi plus a little Dex for cast time (if you even want lower cast time, not 100% necessary imo) and Vit for survivability (and Indulge) if you need it are all you need, and you probably can use (vertical) Fire Wall to hold off mobs til you have the AoEs you want as a sorc (or even to hold off mobs that'd kill your sorc).

Keep in mind that the ideas I've written above are for a sorc using normal magic and magic through melee as a primary means of damage. (Fist Spell and Hindsight do NOT require you to pass flee/hit checks to proc, and overall damage output over time in a build that uses a lot of magic isn't significantly affected by the physical damage you deal.) If you want physical damage as a significant source of damage (it would take very low into to make it the primary), then you're going to be a slower killer, and you would, in addition to the stats stated in the previous paragraph, need Str for damage and either Dex or Luk for Hit or Crit respectively. Dagger of Counter does not add matk, so, with renewal making weapon matk a significant contributor to magic damage, lower int because your stats are spread out thinner, and a book mastery skill that adds aspd, you're probably best off with, for instance, a bunch of Luk and a Giant Encyclopedia. <edit>IF you want to make physical damage a significant contributor! Big "if."

Edited by Anchors, 10 August 2011 - 11:03 AM.

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#12 Noumi

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 11:22 AM

If an experienced player does 2k damage per Lv10 Bolt (with the right element) it means that something is wrong <_<


I did the calculation using a Dagger of counter. And I didnt't factor in the elemental weakness. At 100 int the MATK was only something like 190~200. If the MATK part of the fist spell doesn't miss due to flee then it may be interesting as you don't need dex or the dagger of counter for this build. And since most of the damage comes from the MATK part, and your ATK portion will mostly be missing all the way due to low hit, you may be able to do away with low str and dex and high AGI and INT.

It would be nice if u can verify if the MATK portion does not miss due to flee. By trying on a gx in PVP with ur sorc. and if that is true, the only difference in the 2 builds would be all that goes into DEX goes into AGI, and you still can have high VIT and INT. Don't matter if ur cast time is slow since u are going to cancel into fist bolt immediately after u cast it anyway.

If thats the case battle build sorc may not be as bad as I tot, but its still not comparable to the default build which has much better mobbing control. Instead of using cold bolt and whacking what not, you can just diamond dust or psysic wave and kill every single magmaring in a 9x9 Area.
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#13 Anchors

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 11:41 AM

I can tell you that I witnessed a spell fist sorc of pure int/agi build in ID3 that never missed while spell fist on. Dealt over 10k with every hit against titans, too.

Also, if you go with the ideas written in my previous post, you won't be cancelling all the spells you cast when you're in a mob, so cast time does play a role... but in PvM against hostile mobs, you'll be able to still chip away at a mob while taking down single monsters very quickly.

The only things I don't like about equating being able to take out magmaring mobs using a single diamond dust/psychic wave with "mob control" are that 1) magmarings are not aggro, 2) magmarings are looters and as such easy to mob despite not being aggro, and 3) they're very slow, making drawing aggro from a ton of them with the first hit of PWave still pretty safe without them wandering out of the AoE. How many monsters matching these descriptors exist over level 130, or even 120?

Edited by Anchors, 10 August 2011 - 11:42 AM.

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#14 NeoNilox

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 12:15 PM

I did the calculation using a Dagger of counter.


Okay, now I understand, since the Dagger of Counter doesn't have WeapMATK it sharply decreases the magic damage while the physical damage increases a little... it makes me want either a Sage's Diary, Encyclopedia (for the Crits), or a Ledger of Death (for ASPD) plus Endows for the books, since those books have at least 100 WeapMATK and around 110 WeapATK, while they're much faster than daggers. But daggers and books are slower as Sorc while staves are faster, making Staff ASPD = Book ASPD (Study wasn't in mind). Well... it may be somewhat effective as Sage than Scholar (Double Bolt affects Hindsight Bolts too) since I doubt the Sorc need Str for something aside Weight Limit, and Linked Hindseer mode with MATK books may yield a much higher damage than Melee+Magic mode (aka Soldier Sage), although the Melee+Magic has less dependency on Soul Link.

Although I haven't witnessed what Anchors witnessed, I'm really positive that the hits won't miss under Spell Fist effects. and Double Attack may increase the damage, but Crits don't seem to increase the damage, at least that's all what I've heard so far.
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#15 Anchors

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 12:35 PM

I don't get that staves are any faster than books - at least with 8 total Agi and 5 Study...

Arc Wand/Eraser = 152 aspd
Giant Encyclopedia/Principles of Magic = 154 aspd
Dagger of Counter = 148 aspd

... and you need 5+ Study for other skills.
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#16 caasi7

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Posted 09 September 2011 - 11:35 AM

most people here got the wrong idea about the spell fist skill(I think). look here (http://:)/index.php?page=skill_db&jid=4074)

spell fist= while you are casting a bolt skill, you can use the (spell fist) skill and your casting is interrupted but your normal attacks will deal the power of the bolt skill you casted.

bolt skill= you can cast another one while in spell fist state(just don't press the spell fist button again).

hindsight/auto cast= you can use this while in spell fist.

Double Casting/Double Bolt= (I think it's passive) It doubles the bolt skill you casted manually or through hindsight.

summons= the summons has a mode that gives you auto casting bonus depending on their element.
look here (http://ro.doddlercon...?title=Sorcerer)

In terms of attack, I think the battle sage/sorc is better but the battle priest/ab is better in terms of defense(I think).

Edited by caasi7, 09 September 2011 - 11:44 AM.

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#17 Anchors

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 08:47 PM

I don't think there was any indication that anyone who posted did not know how spell fist worked...

... but in any case, the last post in this topic was a month old when you posted. Unless the OP suffers from some rather extreme indecision issues, I'm pretty sure s/he's already made a decision...
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#18 caasi7

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 10:07 PM

I'm just worried that beginners that'll read this may get the wrong idea about the spell fist thing.
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#19 MrBudd

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 11:52 PM

Battle sage > battle priest for offensive damage and killing things after level 100. Although I do like to play my battle AB more since it's a hybrid battle fs build.

A fun option to screw around with on a battle sorc is a fire walk/lightning walk build. Just mob and make monsters chase you while they run into your trail.
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#20 seraphbowler

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 04:03 AM

A fun option to screw around with on a battle sorc is a fire walk/lightning walk build. Just mob and make monsters chase you while they run into your trail.


I love that idea... haha
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#21 MrBudd

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:51 PM

It's actually really fun to do.
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