33 replies to this topic

[CatMuto]

Most people are going to say that neither is better than the other, both have advantages and disadvantages, but I wanted to ask anyway.
I have a Thief (18/13) and I seem to meet more Rogues than Assassins. I want to make my Thief an Assassin (as a plan of manga, she becomes an Assa) but seeing so many Rogues, I want to ask what the biggest differences are?

I know Rogues/Stalkers can use Bows, while Assassins go for Katars - and I've heard of Thiefs leveling via bows.
Considering the looks, it doesn't really matter to me - sexy clothes is sexy clothes to me, as long as I can dye it blue at some point.

Since I want to make an Assassin, I wanted to ask what stat-building I should do when I become one? I don't PVP or WoE, I'm a solo-player. My Thief is being a Mix-Thief. I mostly focus on AGI to hit fast, but am also putting points into VIT so she will survive longer, the rest goes into STR and more AGI.

C-A

Edited by CatMuto, 24 August 2010 - 02:18 PM.

[Tigra]

You probably see so many rogues because you're on valkyrie. Rogues are the class of choice for bots because they have Gank, and can auto-steal items while attacking.

SinXs have more OHKO skills, and are generally more popular for real players, especially in PVP/WOE.

[CatMuto]

Ok, but I don't do PVP/WoE and the auto-steal sounds good. I did do the Rogue Job-Quest once, but not the Assa (I could never find the Mirage Tower - although I looked it up on the Worldmap now) and both seem fun characters.
If I do go for a Rogue, I'd be a Dagger-Rogue. Bows don't seem to work with the mental image ..

And what is Gank?

C-A

[Pineyman]

Well besides the whole rogue with bot thing.

Assasin is purely a killer type while Rogue are more of a versital type.

[Pineyman]

Gank is a skill name for the auto-steal.

[Tigra]

yeah, gank is a passive skill that loots while you kill.

Rogues generally go dagger anyway; I personally don't see many bow ones. So if you do go rogue, I'd go dagger.

Just be wary of people who might KS you thinking you're a bot.

[Pineyman]

Ya you normally won't see rogues with bow. You see a good amount of em as stalker tho. Also gank and bow doesn't match. It won't auto steal because your using range attack.

[CatMuto]

I'll probably make her an Assa, reading this. I remember failing the Rogue Job Quest test several times (damn questions) but I kinda like the Assassin setting a bit more..

How should I go ahead in stating her?
I know that AGI is really important for whatever Thief class you are, but I'm one who'd rather have more survivability, too.
Currently I'm stating her in putting some points into AGI, making sure it's some points about STR and also some into VIT so she won't die so fast. I think my stats right now are ..

STR - 15~
AGI - 20~?
VIT - 14
INT - 1
DEX - 10~11
LUK - 1

C-A

[Pineyman]

Vit is pointless at least for me so that's your choice. Well anyway here's the most important question... what build your aiming to make?

Edited by Pineyman, 26 August 2010 - 12:22 PM.

[CatMuto]

Well, I read a guide on Thief and it said there's the AGI, the VIT and the Mix (Agi+Vit) Thief build and I'm sorta aiming on the Mix Thief for now. Enough HP to not die, fast enough to not get hit too soon.

I checked on iRO Wiki for Assa Builds, but it didn't help me much.
It told me of Equip Critical and Dual Dagger - and while someone IG had told me that as an Assa, I should use Daggers. When I trans to AssaX, though, I should switch to katar.
I'm not sure how Daggers can be better than Katars, although he said to be a Katar-Assa, I'd need more DEX ..

So, I guess my build would be AGI, but with enough STR and some VIT.

C-A

[neoyagasaki]

Don't worry too much about dumping stat points into VIT... With a high enough agi you won't have to worry about getting hit that often to begin with...

My build (at lvl 97) looks like so (stats were from before I completed my morrigane set though, once RO comes back up, I can give a current list of my stats and what equips I'm using):

STR 85+9
AGI 81+17
VIT 28+2
INT 6+5
DEX 22+9
LUK 37+1

Essentially, HP is always going to be an issue with sins, just like with hunters... They're build for speed and rely heavily on their ability to dodge most attacks... My build is the natural critical build, which means, my assassin has a high natural chance to cause critical damage... If you go with a equip critical build, you have more stats for things like STR, AGI, and VIT/DEX (depending on preference), but it's more expensive since you become reliant upon very specific card/gear sets...

I myself am a katar user... That's partially due to the fact that you can achieve a higher ASPD with katars as opposed to daggers... However, daggers also have their advantages... I may attack faster than a DD sin, but DD sins on average dish out a lot more damage (especially if they're equipped with an ice pick)... Honestly, as a sin, a lot of the skills are useless (mostly because they either don't do enough damage to justify investing the skill points into them, or they simply aren't very well implemented...) Because of this, if you skimp on a few of these skills, you can easily work into your sin build the L-hand and R-hand mastery needed for DD... That produces a little bit of a more well rounded sin and offers you the flexibility to switch between katars and daggers...

[Pineyman]

Dagger is the way to go for high damage (if you got Ice pick) and rape any high defence monsters.
While katar critting monsters(crit ignores defence) it wont hurt as much.
As a Assasin Cross normal lvling Dagger is still the way to go but they also have a huge advantage using katars. Example been EDP + Link + Sonic Blow = broken damage.

[CatMuto]

Don't worry too much about dumping stat points into VIT... With a high enough agi you won't have to worry about getting hit that often to begin with...

Unless of course I'm, like it happens recently a lot, in Payon Dungeon and am killing a Zombie, suddenly several more Zombies show up and I run out of potions .... damn Zombies, all I want in that dungeon is a Bongun Egg.

Well, I'm currently putting all my points into AGI (with a point into STR now and then) and am doing those repeatable EXP Quests. Never heard of them before and never knew they existed. They seem well (downside I get bored of grind-leveling/repeatedly killing one monster after about 15 minutes and hence it takes me longer to go for higher numbers) and do help.
My Thief is 30/20-something right now. Full Double Attack/Improve Dodge - I'm not sure if I should put more points into Envenom or Hiding, I don't think I'll use either any time soon.

C-A

[neoyagasaki]

Hiding is a good skill to throw a few points into... Mostly because you'll need it lvl 2 to get cloaking as a sin... Also, you need to use hide in order to use grimtooth (which is pretty good for clearing out mobs)...

Envenom, you only need to be lvl 1 for all of the sin's poison skills, however, it needs to be lvl 3 in order to get detoxify...

[neoyagasaki]

BTW, if you're having issues with getting mobbed to death, use hide... Even as a high level sin it can be useful (not because I am afraid of getting mobbed to death, but as a way to manage the number of enemies I am fighting at once)... Only insects, demons, and boss type monsters can sense you when you're hidden (and later on, cloaked)... The only other way a monster is going to see you is if they can cast sight...

[Shinobi]

As an assassin, (And even sinx), I found that the cheapest way to get good dmg is to go Dual Katar.

They have every element in katars. Which also sell really cheap.(There are even slotted ones where you can do race/element% cards into it)

Buy a chick hat from kafra.

With Str 100ish Agi 80ish and Dex 40ish. Some vit if you like.

It's alot cheaper then carding daggars to each place you go and level. Katars also give a faster attack boost.
But, you get the double atk. So basically its atkx4 with elemental dual katar.

It's a nice setup. I lvled to 95 on my sinx this way.

[CatMuto]

Buy a chick hat from kafra.

I don't have much money and what money I have I wouldn't spend on buying Kafra Shop stuff - subscription only, if at all.
If I had a huge amount at my disposal and wouldn't need to worry about scraping together what I have, I'd do it.

And my Assa/X is either going to get Cat Ears or Bongun Hat as her accessory - like my avatar. I generally don't go for effectiveness in my headgears or so. More towards prettiness. Might sound stupid and be it in terms of stats, but that's how I prefer it.

C-A

[Shinobi]

Wow, not much help there then. My advice for if you are still planning on going to katars...

Get a sidewinder card and put it into the highest upgraded katar you can find. Depending on the slots of the katar, you can put a couple of andre cards into it. It's the cheapest all purpose dmg katar you can do.

You wont get maximum effectiveness out of elements...

But you would still be doing twice as much dmg from hit locking it anyways.

And "pretiness" is in the eye of the beholder. I don't consider any of the headgear you're going for as looking pretty.

I hope this info helps though. Goodluck.

Edited by Shinobi, 30 August 2010 - 05:15 AM.

[Tigra]

I don't have much money and what money I have I wouldn't spend on buying Kafra Shop stuff - subscription only, if at all.

If I were you, I'd do the kafra surveys to get free kafrapoints. Since the chick hat isn't that much, you could fill out a few "free" ones and accumulate enough points pretty easily. Just make a new email designated to spam (or else your main email will be flooded daily).

[Poko4Sho]

Personally, I would like to say stop pumping vit. Now. Or you're going to muff up your build and not be able to preform/level as well if you hadn't, then you're gonna be upset. HP is cool and all sure, but what you should do is pump agi and wear agi gear enough to where you have 95% flee chance on whatever monster you are about to level off of.
Like you said, you were killing Zombies. So, worry about fleeing them 95% and you won't need vit or potions.
After you've got some flee, then pump str for the damage. At first STR isn't so much needed because you're going to dodge so much you won't get hurt, and you'll eventually kill the monster anyway.

While some people choose to get vit, remember, the points that go into vit are going to come out of something that is, IMO, better for Assassin. Strength, Agility and Dexterity. You don't wanna hit weak, you don't wanna get hit, and you don't want to miss!

When I was an Assassin, I had something like 99str, 88agi and 40dex. I was DD build.
DD>Katar until you are Assassin Cross and can factor in EDP, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

[CatMuto]

Well, by now I've already stopped putting anything into VIT (unless I have some points left over) so, at level 34/25 I'm about .. 35 AGI? and about 21 STR and my DEX is still around Teenager-Age.
Most of my points go into AGI right now and I'm trying to get 100 Creamy dead, but those f*ckers keep teleporting away! >< Or when I suddenly get ambushed by a vocal - but that only happened once or twice.

In case my equip is important ..

Ribbon [1] (I wanted some headgear at the moment, besides, I'll keep it so I can make a Red Ribbon later on)
Damascus
Buckler
Mantle (I wasn't sure if I should spend the 22.000Z on the coat and I really didn't want to spend 72.000Z from my given-as-a-help 100.000Z on Thief Clothes)
Shoes
Muffler

C-A

[CatMuto]

(Sorry for double post)

Anyway, my Thief is now level 41/30 - and stuck!
I have Caramel Quest, but I'm sick and tired of killing those things - I keep forgetting what motivated me in the first place to agree to kill 150 of them at once ..
I can't do the Hode Quest, because they kill me too soon - same thing with Dokebi Quest and also Frilldora, but I haven't even attempted them yet.
I can't get to Al De Baran to get to Lutie for Cruisers in the Toy Factory, cause I'm broke again and selling off my drops isn't bringing me much money, because I need to spend that money on potions so I don't have to sit around for 10 minutes after 5 minutes of fighting ..!

STR - 26 + 2
AGI - 43 + 2
VIT - 20 + 1
INT - 1 + 1
DEX - 20 + 2
LUK - 1 + 1

Head - Baby Dragon Hat (Till 30th, then I switch back to Chick Hat)
Body - Thief Clothes
Weap - Damascus
Guard - Buckler
Shoes - Boots

Any good tips on how to get past this hurdle? I heard from a mage that, once I get to level 45, things get easier.
Not sure if I can/should believe that, all I know is, I'm stuck, I barely have any money and am getting close to the point of wanting to delete this character and start her over. (Happens a lot to me)

C-A

[ironwolf]

A Baby Dragon hat is only useful if you are doing dragon kill counts. To kill the carmels quicker either get an Elemental converter (fire), a Fire Damascus, or find some one to give you an Endow(if you intend on soling them otherwise get a party for quicker results). Any of these options will cut down on your potion usage and allow you to finnish your kill count quicker. For future reference always check the weakness of the monsters that you are planning on leveling off of and either have endows or elemental weapons/ converters for the element they are weak to for faster killing.

[CatMuto]

A Baby Dragon hat is only useful if you are doing dragon kill counts. To kill the carmels quicker either get an Elemental converter (fire), a Fire Damascus, or find some one to give you an Endow(if you intend on soling them otherwise get a party for quicker results). Any of these options will cut down on your potion usage and allow you to finnish your kill count quicker. For future reference always check the weakness of the monsters that you are planning on leveling off of and either have endows or elemental weapons/ converters for the element they are weak to for faster killing.

And where do I get these Converters for reasonable prices (or well enough drops)?
I'm starting to think that mages really are a much better class ..
And I thought the Baby Dragon Hat increases EXP rate, no matter what monster?

C-A

[Kadnya]

A baby dragon hat is only good the second you are turning in the dragon killcount. It doesn't have any of its other stated effects enabled, so the only difference between a baby dragon hat and nothing is the ability to chose to chanel turnins exp, and getting more exp from the turnin.

Your average sin starts should be high str, high agi, and enough dex. With the leftover points you can add a bit of bit or a bit of int for increased HP or sp recovering items eficiency. You are aiming to end with something like this:

str 9x
agi 8x or more
dex 32 or more
vit, int 1 or a tiny bit more, not more than 20 at all and you won't add any until you have at least 8x str/agi.
luk 1 always.

In my opinion, remaking would be faster, since you are low leveled yet and spent stats in vit too early. Don't worry about remaking, it won't take you long, even if it right now you think "but it took me X weeks to get here!". I know years back when I started it took me like two weeks to reach from novice to mage and a month to level 31 (and with a messed build). And someone told me they would help me rebuild in a few minutes (but I was stubborn and kept my life as a luk-str-agi mage for a while @@). I may not be able to help by playing with you much, but I could give you a few exp envelopes so you reach level 15 and use a mercenary to reach back your level 41 in an hour or two. Pm Sakura Komochi! in the afternoon if you want some help xP.

As a thief class, you want to focus on this first:

- Can I flee the monster I want to fight well enough? then
- Can I do enough damage?
- Do I miss too much?

And add stats in that order. First agi, then str, then dex. Your stat progression would be something like 10 str-> 10 dex ->30 agi -> 20 str -> 15 dex -> 40 agi...-> 50str,70agi,30dex... *keep adding agi, str, dex as you need it*. Don't worry if you miss too much at first, or if you think you are missing too much. Look for survival first, in the form of flee and agi. You'll look older players max str and dex first and maybe go agiless or add agi at last, but that is because they have enough zeny to stand 'lossing zeny' in making a character. Right now I don't think that is our case, so remember agi and more agi! (and str!)

Also!... a good idea right now would be making an aco (on another account). If you have an aco you can warp yourself to places, and your best training place is far away. If you want, I could introduce you to moscovia, a place where you can level your thief easily while making zeny. And monsters drop restorative items too. The only bad pointsc are that it is a dungeon that requires a quest to get close to it (but you can memo right outside and go inside without doing the quest, so that is what the aco is for;)), and that it has bots (but almost every valkyrie maps has bots, so that isn't much of a difference, right? @@). Pm me if you want to copy the warp, and good luck!