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FOC 65 Vs Rh shining for a radiant


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#1 kratavan

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 01:34 PM

Posted this on guild forum so figured might as well post it here too. Do not just assume bc many radiants use rh set over 65 foc that it truly is the best set for your rad. In this case I show that foc is in fact a better set for healing (while only marginally) so do not just write it off and start rolling rad in rh until you have actually figured out which is the better set for your toon ;o



FOC for rad vs Rh shining

Post pyretic Today at 5:27 pm
Bee was argiung that all my gfs rad needs is +15 rh shining and will be good. I retorted that foc is a better set for healing due to crit on it and he won't listen. so here is an analysis

her base with no armor on is 223-460 magic attack 209 scad 45.128% crit 720 mind,

so to make the math a bit simpler I will use her median magic attack power (because in a normal distribution [ie. where its truly random the number picked in a certain range, in this case 223-460] over a large enough sample size it will average out to the median of the range) The median magic power in this case is ~331 (460-[[460-223]/2])

her mind is 720 with no armor mind adds .5 to heals so 720/2=360 so her mind will add 360 to each non crit heal and 720 to crits

so all heals are 331+ heal skill strength+360 for non crit and (2x[331+heal strength+360])+scad for crit heals
or condensed the average heal will be

791+skill for non crit and (791x2=1582) so 1582+[skillx2]+scad for crit heals

*note that^ is all without armor on*

so since the base heal is now known prior to armor the question is which armor has a better increase to healing capability

bee's assertion was +15 rh is the better set so next is a comparison of +15 rh vs +15 foc *(since rh lacks a shoulder I will use for the rh set a +15 foc shoulder)
scc mind scad
+15 rh +15 foc +15 rh +15foc +15 rh +15foc
upper 0 1.71 51 46 47 43
lower 0 1.67 47 43 50 43
shoulder 1.44 1.44 22 22 23 23
gloves 0 1.64 44 26 44 26
boots 0 1.61 42 24 44 26
helm 0 1.58 41 23 42 24
total 1.44% 9.65% 247 184 250 185

*for some reason on the post when you go to read it all the spaces in the chart to make it organized and legible are removed >_>
so the numbers are rh scc foc scc rh mind foc mind rh scad and then foc scad for each piece, and their totals for the 2 sets at +15 are
rh gives 1.44% scc 247 mind 250 scad
foc gives 9.65% scc 184 mind 185 scad*

just looking at the amount added to your heal rh wins with 63 more mind meaning 31.5 more non crit heal and 63 more on crits + 53 more scad meaning 31.5 more on non crit and 128 to crit heals. But this is just looking at the number you heal, now how well you heal in raid. For that you have to factor in crit rate.

so stats without armor are 223-460 magic attack 209 scad 45.128% crit 720 mind,

with rh 223-460 mattack 459 scad 46.568% crit and 967 mind
with foc 223-460 mattack 394 scad 54.778% crit and 904 mind

So that the % scc can be directly applied the math will be for a cycle of 100 heal chains (a heal chain be defined a s a cycle through all 4 heals) since the longest cooldown of the 4 heals is 12 seconds it would seem safe to assume that one heal chain is about 12 seconds (meaning you cycle through all 4 heals and at the 12 second mark you will be able to begin the next chain). So 100 heal chains would be about 20 minutes, or an ok time rh raid. [12 seconds per cycle means 5 per minute [60seconds/12seconds] and ofc 100/5=20 so 20 minutes to cycle through 100 heal chains.

Since it is 100 heal chains that means each heal will be used 100 times. The formulas for heals were noted as mattack+skill strength+[mind/2] and (2x[mattack+skill strength+[mind/2]])+scad for crit *where mattack=331 since 400 total heals is a large enough sample size to assume the normal distribution will work out to the median*

all her heals are max lvl and lesser party has max dna so they heal these amounts *skill strength*
lesser heal 445
moderate heal 1182
lesser party 1575
moderate party 811


remembering these stats :
with rh 223-460 mattack 459 scad 46.568% crit and 967 mind
with foc 223-460 mattack 394 scad 54.778% crit and 904 mind

and applying the formulas applying the formulas

for rh set: *mind is.5xmind added to heals so 967/2=~483 and for crits it is just healx2+scad
lesser heal 445+331+483=1259 crit=2977
moderate heal 1182+331+483=1996 crit=4451
less party heal 1575+331+483=2389 crit= 5237
moderate party heal 811+331+483=1625 crit=3709
these are the average heal values

for foc set mind/2 = 904/2= 452 added heal
lesser heal 445+331+452=1228 crit=2850
moderate heal 1182+331+452=1965 crit=4324
less party heal 1575+331+452=2358 crit=5110
moderate party heal 811+331+452=1594 crit=3582


all these are the average heal amounts per 1 heal. Applied over the course of 100 heals and noting crit rate the total amount healed will be [[100%x(scc%)]x[critical healamount]]+[[100%-(scc%)]x[healamount]] which is basically all crit heals+all non crit heals in 100 heals. (assuming normal distribution

so for rh in a 100 heal cycle *
lesser heal =206646
moderate heal= 314985
lesser party=372850
moderate party=260448
total=1,154,929

in foc
lesser heal=214575
moderate heal=326245
lesser party=388375
moderate party=268740
total=1197395

so in comparison 1197395vs1,154,929=43,006 differance

so total her rad in foc gear vs rh would heal roughly 40k more about every 20 minutes in a raid
so 1197395/1,154,929=1.037% or that +15 foc vs +15 rh, in this case, foc is about 4% more effective for healing

the point of this being just because many rads say rh is the superior set does not necessarily mean it is in fact a better set for your rad and depends entirely on your gear.

Edited by kratavan, 11 August 2011 - 01:41 PM.

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#2 Famous

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 02:12 PM

i am not really intrested in this but there is some more discussion about same topic here if you are intrested http://forums.warppo...nhorns-shining/
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#3 kratavan

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 02:30 PM

not really interested in it either xD
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#4 Chardane

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 03:47 PM

I like cookies
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#5 Fudd

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 05:47 PM

its too much...

but FOC is better?
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#6 kratavan

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 06:33 AM

tldr dont just assume rh is the better set for rads, in the case of my gfs rad foc is 4% more effective at healing than rh
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#7 Dess

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 06:57 AM

I agree RH is over rated, but calculations should be done thinking in all equipment. For example if your rad has 20% skill crit in RH and 30% on foc that 10% is a huge diference. If it has 70% on foc and 60% on RH its not that much then.

On second note 3 mns gives 1 heal, you you should do MND/3, not /2.

This was talked on other topic too as famous pointed and was told there that FOC armor its better. Tbh, even Salvation armor, wich is the best armor for radiants right now, its not a lot better than foc unless you pluss it really high, i would say +20 min to notice a good increase in heals. Right now i miss Salv gloves, but when i finish set i would probably do some testings to see how much more healing i get, right now i dont expect much -_-
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#8 gammelfleisch

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Posted 14 August 2011 - 07:06 AM

but FOC is better?


yes.
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#9 kratavan

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 05:49 AM

I agree RH is over rated, but calculations should be done thinking in all equipment. For example if your rad has 20% skill crit in RH and 30% on foc that 10% is a huge diference. If it has 70% on foc and 60% on RH its not that much then.

On second note 3 mns gives 1 heal, you you should do MND/3, not /2.

This was talked on other topic too as famous pointed and was told there that FOC armor its better. Tbh, even Salvation armor, wich is the best armor for radiants right now, its not a lot better than foc unless you pluss it really high, i would say +20 min to notice a good increase in heals. Right now i miss Salv gloves, but when i finish set i would probably do some testings to see how much more healing i get, right now i dont expect much -_-



yeh found out after that mind is over 3 when I had thought it was over 2. I could bother calculating the equilibrium point where rh and foc are better(don't really feel like it tho it's probably at 60% or higher rh is better)

as for 72 sets no they are vastllllly superior. The static skill crit closes the gap enough that very quickly the even larger mind/scad bonus + the better set bonuses make salvation go to the forefront very quickly. I tried testing foc diskar vs sealing and not close
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#10 Dess

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 09:08 AM

yeh found out after that mind is over 3 when I had thought it was over 2. I could bother calculating the equilibrium point where rh and foc are better(don't really feel like it tho it's probably at 60% or higher rh is better)

as for 72 sets no they are vastllllly superior. The static skill crit closes the gap enough that very quickly the even larger mind/scad bonus + the better set bonuses make salvation go to the forefront very quickly. I tried testing foc diskar vs sealing and not close

I still dont have full salvation, im missing gloves still, but i can tell you, with both sets at +10 the diference is not that important (i crit heal arround 100 more with salv) and i feel kinda dissapointed with that set. Sure, its the best set we got right now, but youll notice an important diference on +20 i would say. You can be a great rad at lvl 79 using FOC 65.
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#11 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 01:03 AM

This is a cool topic and thanks for all the info and calculations. However, there is one more quite important factor to consider?

The relative ease to obtain a FoC set and upgrade it, since it is eximius. You can even afford to break some pieces in the process. While RH, and of course Salvation, no one would really like to have pieces broken, which means using mall items almost by default.

Now, I have also noticed that Aceroa pieces are a bit stubborn to + to very high levels, but anyway, still easier to work with for most people. Personally, I would stick to an Aceroa set, until I could use a Salvation one and + it reasonably high too (OK this of course would be a long shot).
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#12 Hugh

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 05:28 AM

Did you include the set bonuses too? Anyway, I've never really understood a lot of the set stats chosen by the developers. The only real advantage I can see of using rh set over foc is the resistance bonus for pvp.
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#13 kratavan

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 05:57 AM

well the general idea is that most rads use rh thinking better heals (aka higher numbers) means they are better radiants tho this is showing that skill crit is an equally important factor. IMO the foc set is more balanced with skill crit mind and scad vs rh being pure mind scad.

as for set bonuses I know I intended to include them 0.0 looking at it tho not sure i did :handshake: even if not the end result will be about the same
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#14 Hugh

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 06:14 AM

well the general idea is that most rads use rh thinking better heals (aka higher numbers) means they are better radiants tho this is showing that skill crit is an equally important factor. IMO the foc set is more balanced with skill crit mind and scad vs rh being pure mind scad.

as for set bonuses I know I intended to include them 0.0 looking at it tho not sure i did :handshake: even if not the end result will be about the same


Might just swing it in rhs favour (63 mnd + 42 scad vs 0.7 scc + 32 scad), still not exactly an upgrade - especially since foc gives hp and rh doesn't.
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#15 Dess

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 07:32 AM

Actually to crit often is more important than to crit high. I would say skill crit % is the most important stat to be a good rad. When i tank i prefer to have a ot of crit heals of 3-4k than 1 crit heal every 200 heals of 7k.
I remember tanks not understanding why with low heals i managed to keep them alive easyer than ppl higher heals, skill crit was the diference. I would advice any rad to get skill crit chance min to 50%+ (50.01 if you want), them important thing is to have more chances to crit than to not crit. After that well.... korean math comes into play and even with 65%+ chances when the tank needs HP the most youll start healing less and less.... :handshake:
Of course, if you can get high % and high numbers better :waddle:
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#16 exilehunter

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 07:34 AM

ooh. too much calculations for something i think is much easier to look at through obtainability.

RH is only worth using if you can get hold of it quickly. Spending so much time raidng or buying it cheap is just pointless when a good FOC set can get you on your way to obtaining Salvation armor.
FOC is cheaper and less dear to lose in reinforcement hence less IM spent for good reinforcement.

Unless you really like RH armor looks and know you arent going to get salvation armor, or reach 72+ anytime soon then you can try to get a set.


Overall, 1 healer with RH armor isnt going to make too much difference to the overall raid or in pve. PvP RH armor is stupid as you cant do FoC anyway till you reach 79 unless you enjoy getting flamed and TB you dont need to be good to max points with healing.
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#17 kratavan

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 08:16 AM

im forced to lol that all on here suport foc sets when all i ever see is rads telling lowbie rads to get rh set and rads rolling for rh
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#18 Dess

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 10:10 AM

I never told or will tell any rad to get RH set and never used it myself, i went straight from foc to salvation (well in the process still). I d hate to lose 10% skill crit, i got used to watching moderatly high numbers quite ofted :handshake:
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#19 Loyalty1

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 10:20 AM

FoC upper/lower/shoulders + RH helm/gloves/shoes.

*Ends thread* :handshake:

Edited by Loyalty1, 16 August 2011 - 10:22 AM.

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#20 gammelfleisch

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 02:12 PM

FoC upper/lower/shoulders + RH helm/gloves/shoes.

*Ends thread* :waddle:


for the looks and sum addition scad, yeh, but RH set still lacks CON and skill crit chance. :handshake:
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#21 xSweetDreamsx

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 02:37 PM

I think with all the exp events and whatever i wouldnt waste time with RH set, just start farming 72 set instead, prefer foc over RH, never once considered getting RH, its looks good? :handshake: Also agree that skill crit is most important stat for a rad, no point having high heals if you never crit.
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#22 gammelfleisch

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 02:41 PM

no point having high heals if you never crit.


:handshake:
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#23 jls1znv9999

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Posted 08 September 2011 - 12:19 PM

FOC Aceroa Set

Bonus with 2 of 6 parts equipped: Skill Critical Chance 0.70%
Bonus with 3 of 6 parts equipped: Skill Critical Chance 0.70%, Skill Critical Additional Damage +16
Bonus with 4 of 6 parts equipped: Skill Critical Chance 0.70%, Skill Critical Additional Damage +16, CON +16
Bonus with 5 of 6 parts equipped: Skill Critical Chance 0.70%, Skill Critical Additional Damage +16, CON +16, MP Recovery +4
Bonus with 6 of 6 parts equipped: Skill Critical Chance 0.70%, Skill Critical Additional Damage +32, CON +32, MP Recovery +8, MP +70


Ruinhorn's Shining

Bonus with 2 of 5 parts equipped: MND +21
Bonus with 3 of 5 parts equipped: MND +21, Skill Critical Additional Damage +21
Bonus with 4 of 5 parts equipped: MND +42, Skill Critical Additional Damage +21
Bonus with 5 of 5 parts equipped: MND +63, Skill Critical Additional Damage +42, Property Magic Resistance[Lightning] 4,20%


MND (Mind)
  • Every 1 MND adds 4 MP.
  • Every 5 MND adds 1 to MP Recovery.
  • Every 1 MND adds 0.5 HP Restoration to direct heal spells.
  • Every 1 MND adds 0.011% ~ 0,0138% Skill Critical
At lower levels if you want to crit more you go with FOC but loose mnd = base skill dmg
RH Shinning loose critical chance but have more consistent heals (Can't cross fingers and pray for critical) :)

Shining set: MND +63, Skill Critical Additional Damage +42, Property Magic Resistance[Lightning] 4,20%
FOC set : Skill Critical Chance 0.70%, Skill Critical Additional Damage +32, CON +32, MP Recovery +8, MP +70


These are level 65 and 67 sets. It's easy to see you give a little get a little.
Mix em up if you want. Who cares what they look like wear a costume :P

Edited by jls1znv9999, 08 September 2011 - 12:19 PM.

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#24 cevaceva62

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Posted 19 September 2011 - 01:54 AM

im forced to lol that all on here suport foc sets when all i ever see is rads telling lowbie rads to get rh set and rads rolling for rh

I always roll rad too...cause I want the claws, the rh shinning I sell to noobs who invest in a pointless set! Also the staff sucks :D)
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