46 replies to this topic

[Starfield]

I do clearly understand that this two cards nullifies Neutral property which clearly conveys to us is a protection from the popular Gfist of a Sura. But what I still don't understand why pay so much like 5billion-6billion zenny just for these two cards where in fact you can counter them with wind/earth converters which is only 10-15k. In my opinion ill rather die in gfist than paying 5billion-6billion zenny and still getting my HP almost red. Also, why pay that big amount of money where people just countered me with cheap converters. Since KVMs are on arise GRs and DRs are getting over looked in a way.

In WOE, Ghostring would be perfect since it doesnt show the damage but like I said KVMs outpowered still the Ghost property same as well for Deviling once you used converter melee damage would be awesome.

Comments, suggestions are welcome. No troll please.

[Streetfighta]

Deviling is an all-round excellent card, since it helps a lot with mobbing and MVPing apart from PVP.

Ghostring is kinda cheap because it doesn't work in PVM. Probably it's still a bit expensive because most Armor cards are simply useless (while Tao Gunka card reigns supreme).

[CeruleanGamer]

If you're a competitive WoE player, you'll need to have these even if you pay double or triple their price. It won't be long till EVERYONE has Glorious weapons and everyone you encounter will be a threat. But from the looks of this thread, you prolly think Asprika and Brynhild makes you well geared for WoE but it's not.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 24 September 2011 - 07:35 AM.

[HayrohsLegacy]

Same here, imo too, Dev and GR for WOE, better than Asp/Bryn. /no1 and lame trolls around Prontera sux. /e5

[Alca]

GR is for tanking Gfist and anyone who isn't using converters. Also keep in mind that if you can convert it, you can tank it.Whether it's efficient when it comes to supplies is another story.

DR is a completely situational garment; If you plan on using it as your main garment, just quit RO. You'd have to be completely retarded to take 50% more damage from everything that you can use converters on.

On the subject of GR/DR being better than Asp/Bryn, they have completely different uses.

[Myzery]

If you're a competitive WoE player, you'll need to have these even if you pay double or triple their price. It won't be long till EVERYONE has Glorious weapons and everyone you encounter will be a threat. But from the looks of this thread, you prolly think Asprika and Brynhild makes you well geared for WoE but it's not.

They won't save you from some of the glorious weapons.

[GuardianTK]

Well if you put the DR into a Nid Garb, that's actually only a 43% more damage from everything other than Neutral. If you use x2 Kafra Blossom Cards, that's only 23% damage from all other elements other than Neutral. I don't think GloomyShyness CS is going to be able to 1-shot you in WoE, even if it's endowed (Assuming you're 150 anyways...). This is all considering that you're not wearing an elemental armor.

[Seiken7]

GuardianTK, your comment is too general. Specify a class would benefit from that idea that you have? Basically, even you managed to lessen all the element damage you are still receiving 23% meaning even though it is 50% from neutral as long you have endowed an element to your weapon it is still additional 23%. Do your math. Most Glorious is 70% to demi. So Glorious 70% - Devi 50% = 20% more remaining damage to demi plus that 23% from the endowed element you are talking about. So i would say its not really worth of 6 billion of zenny this Deviling Card. People are just overlooking it basically.

[Alca]

taking 23% more damage from ctrl-click GXs, all forms of magic, KA Suras, & anything else with decent DPS would be pretty damn stupid. Have fun spamming pots

GuardianTK, your comment is too general. Specify a class would benefit from that idea that you have? Basically, even you managed to lessen all the element damage you are still receiving 23% meaning even though it is 50% from neutral as long you have endowed an element to your weapon it is still additional 23%. Do your math. Most Glorious is 70% to demi. So Glorious 70% - Devi 50% = 20% more remaining damage to demi plus that 23% from the endowed element you are talking about. So i would say its not really worth of 6 billion of zenny this Deviling Card. People are just overlooking it basically.

I like your math.

[DeltaRay]

They won't save you from some of the glorious weapons.

GR and DR will save u from those , it only becomes a problem if the user is wearing megs

[MrBudd]

DR is over rated by folks on Valkyrie. It'll save you from bad players not good ones. Not worth the price people are asking for em.

[Alicesaurus]

Forced neutral skills wont bypass gr and dr, but dr will increase the damage taken under those that can take on a element, it will both reduce and increase damage taken.
1.5(converted dr) x .47(neutral resist) x .93(nid elemental reduct)
= 59.998% damage taken, pretty decent.
In this same example a asprika would reduce damage twice, once for forced neutral, second for the element.

Forced neutral skills are common in renewal, this has made dr and more heavily gr a important/nesisary gear to have for low hp classes to avoid getting one shotted.

Also note if you have a dr in a nid and two kafra blossom cards the final aditional damage done 'non forced neutral' is calculated like this:
1.5(increased dr damage taken) x .73(27% elemental resistance) = 109.5% damage. A non forced neutral skill will still bypass the dr reduction but the same could be considered of an immune.

Comparing an immune vs dr with non forced neutral converted
dr = 109.5%
immune = 73%
Asprika .7(asprika element reduction) x .80(kafra blossom) = 56% 'who saids you cant switch between dr and asprika! '

It's not as huge a leap as what some people think.

Dr immune or asprika there is no one best garment does all, learn to switch between a mix of them for the best results.

Edited by Alicesaurus, 24 September 2011 - 02:51 PM.

[asayuu]

GuardianTK, your comment is too general. Specify a class would benefit from that idea that you have? Basically, even you managed to lessen all the element damage you are still receiving 23% meaning even though it is 50% from neutral as long you have endowed an element to your weapon it is still additional 23%. Do your math. Most Glorious is 70% to demi. So Glorious 70% - Devi 50% = 20% more remaining damage to demi plus that 23% from the endowed element you are talking about. So i would say its not really worth of 6 billion of zenny this Deviling Card. People are just overlooking it basically.

WHAT? Let's calculate it again~ ^_^

Thinking about a Glorious with 70% extra damage, it would give:

170% on a person without demi-human resistance.

With neutral element. The Deviling pushes it by half (I've put 0.43 here because of the Nidhoggur thing idea.). So~

170% * 0.43 = 73.1%.

With other elements, giving that 23% over there.

170% * 1.23 = 209.1%.

So a Deviling with a Glorious is almost a permanent Lex Aeterna for the non-neutral element D:

Edited by asayuu, 24 September 2011 - 06:45 PM.

[Zinja]

The Mistake people make is not really understanding the DUBIOUS defense bypassing mechanic of the glorious weapons.
70% defense bypassing is NOT EQUAL to 70% additional damage.
You dont even know if its soft(vit + int def) or hard( DEF+MDEF) or a combination of both. even then these would vary a lot by instance/person to finally get the actual additional % damage.

[Daray]

In this thread: Lots of facts.
Nope! These facts aren't real, they are Taxidermy facts by Chuck Testa.

I've played around with Asprika, GR, DR, Bryn and Tao.
To my experience, as a Sura, Tao + DR gives most survivability/advantage. But as it has been mentioned, nothing prevents you from switching.

[Asuki]

DR is mainly made for pvm, the only use i see for it in WOE is to tank a gfist, and as for ghostring card, only use for it is to tank gfist again, other then that most ppl are converted and the main threats in WOE is stormblast( converted mostly water, lightning earth or shadow, use DR against this if your suicidal, this skill almost 1 shots ppl wearing proper gear, nvm with DR), dragon breath( only fire armor and holy armor reduce this) , exceed break ( converted), self destruct ( cannot reduce this as far as i know) and gfist which is the only forced neutral killer

[Seiken7]

I totally agree with you Asuki i dont think DR or GR should be worth of 6b just to tank me from gfist basically. Ill rather buy 6b worth of ales GG ^____^

[Aeroku]

here's 2 situation. assume there is like, 5-10 min left to end of woe.

1. you are a sura. you wear no dr, you die to another sura's fist. you spend about 30 secs buffing up, warp back, stat food up. you died at pre-emp/emp room before, so it'll take another 30 sec - 1 min to come back. when you arrive back, the same sura fisted you out again. then that opponent sura goes on fisting more of your guildies.

2. you are a sura. you wear a dr, you survive a fist, and in the mean time you'd fist back the sura that just fisted you, killing him/her, then spend the next 25-30 secs killing another 6 opponent. you distract the opponent guild, took some of them with you while you try and defend off them; you buy your guildies some time to come and help you. perhaps allowing a recall somewhere as well.

note this is just an example of the situation. is DR really worth 6b? imagine if the castle is the infamous meg/sleip fort that has 100 econ, with its piece valued at 1-1.5b

[WateryGrave]

Thier both useless. I gave my GR away and i dont miss it o.o

[Asuki]

how about example 3:

your a sura, you can snap out of a fist unless your curse circled or cced in some way, but you wear a DR you go curse circle on group, but since your wearing a DR like a nub, the rk stormblasts and 1 shots you. Sorry to break it to you but the main job of a sura is to CC, not gfist every nub he sees, gfist is good for those targets that just wont die ex: Tao RK, other suras, shadow chasers, rgs. And btw its impossible to survive a gfist from a properly geared Sura if your a sura, even if you have dr, gr , +12 cranial immune, +12 cat ear beret, already tested it and gfist damage is still high enought to one shot you

[WateryGrave]

They need to make the same cooldown for snap-gfist as for snap-cc because it defeats the purpose of having delay between snap and gfist in the first place

[Aeroku]

how about example 3:

your a sura, you can snap out of a fist unless your curse circled or cced in some way, but you wear a DR you go curse circle on group, but since your wearing a DR like a nub, the rk stormblasts and 1 shots you. Sorry to break it to you but the main job of a sura is to CC, not gfist every nub he sees, gfist is good for those targets that just wont die ex: Tao RK, other suras, shadow chasers, rgs. And btw its impossible to survive a gfist from a properly geared Sura if your a sura, even if you have dr, gr , +12 cranial immune, +12 cat ear beret, already tested it and gfist damage is still high enought to one shot you

you must be really pro ^__^

oh note, if i can take 2 double megged endowed stormblasts (on a pure sb build rk) with asprika on my sura without potting, do you really think i will die to 1 stormblast on a dr? your example is just full of theories

Edited by Aeroku, 25 September 2011 - 08:26 AM.

[Carp]

GR/DR are both good in woe/pvm, the only ppl who says they're not worth is are the ones who cant afford them and those who doesnt know how to use them properly.

[Tirasu]

DR is a trash over-rated piece of . It's situational at best and anyone who defaults it deserves to be one shot. It is great for PvM, not so much for MvPing. (g'luck tanking say, anything with special attacks.. oh wait)
GR is a little more useful, but as stated Tao would be enough for 90% of what GR would be used for.

IMO GR is much more useful than DR, but unlike DR it's in armor which is a heavily contested card slot. So it's a toss up.
Personally though, if you're not using converters and your melee you should quit.

Edited by Tirasu, 26 September 2011 - 05:22 AM.

[Pandapoop]

Why would a GR be better than lets say a KVM armor? o.o

20% more hp + 7% reduction from anything demi... isn't that better that ghost prop 1?