127 replies to this topic

[MagicHands]

The majority of newer guilds have an average of maybe 5-10 very active players, out of those 5-10 players i would say around half if not more dont have the gears/ levels to woe. There are maybe 15-20 of these guilds that sit and fight over empty castles instead of joining together to try and make a decent impact in woe. Like a vast majority of players have been saying in renewal that it doesnt take a whole lot of skill to play this game and you can easily kill the best of players with numbers. Stop making excuses and actually do something. All i hear you guys doing is crying about how Valkyrie has an unfair advantage in woe. They saw an opportunity and they took it, nothing more.

[Xellie]

@Zinja - And how long have they played?

You do know not many people have the right patience for that. And that we are talking about new guilds.




Who wouldn't be demoralized from the unfairness?

Almost anyone would. There are people like me who would take on the challenge (years ago, but not today) - and I'm a pretty stubborn girl. I've already gone through this situation once on chaos (all the guild were established and everyone was telling us we couldn't do anything)

And it was hard as hell. That experience alone tells me that unless it's a player with the right contacts / a ton of $$ to sell WPE to make zeny to buy mvp cards / god items (which is the kinda player that TENDS to often lack tactical skill - I mean how do you learn to kill an mvp if you never fight it?)

Then it's really no go unless you're happy to aim for mediocrity.

[kite24]

The majority of newer guilds have an average of maybe 5-10 very active players, out of those 5-10 players i would say around half if not more dont have the gears/ levels to woe. There are maybe 15-20 of these guilds that sit and fight over empty castles instead of joining together to try and make a decent impact in woe. Like a vast majority of players have been saying in renewal that it doesnt take a whole lot of skill to play this game and you can easily kill the best of players with numbers. Stop making excuses and actually do something. All i hear you guys doing is crying about how Valkyrie has an unfair advantage in woe. They saw an opportunity and they took it, nothing more.

And out of those guilds, who do you think stays? Almost every WoE a random person (or two) with strong gears kills all of them and takes the castle at the last few minutes. And I'd be darned if people aren't demoralized by that. 15-20 guilds you say? I checked the timeline for the last four 1.0 WoEs and haven't seen 15-20 low-par guilds breaking a castle.

Almost anyone would. There are people like me who would take on the challenge (years ago, but not today) - and I'm a pretty stubborn girl. I've already gone through this situation once on chaos (all the guild were established and everyone was telling us we couldn't do anything)

And it was hard as hell. That experience alone tells me that unless it's a player with the right contacts / a ton of $$ to sell WPE to make zeny to buy mvp cards / god items (which is the kinda player that TENDS to often lack tactical skill - I mean how do you learn to kill an mvp if you never fight it?)

Then it's really no go unless you're happy to aim for mediocrity.

Well, there aren't a lot of people who are willing to spend a lot of time to be some mediocre guild.

Edited by kite24, 31 October 2011 - 10:00 AM.

[Kadelia]

When iro valkyrie started, they made a huge mistake and activate woe early... so there's a certain guild that had complete access to all castles for like 2-3 woes... and had a huge head start.. and really screwed up the whole server until now ... there's no possible way for a new guild to compete now... is this going to be fix with the incoming woe patch?

Gravity doesn't give a . They are doing the exact same thing with yggdrasil right now and not lifting a finger to correct their mistake of starting WoE before there was healthy competition. They also ignored showerings of protests to opening new castles each week. You're S.O.L.

[zr0rieu]

I do agree that Yggdrasil WoE scene is similar to Valkyrie, but it's not entirely correct to say that Gravity doesn't give a $hit.
Let's compare what happened on Valkyrie to Yggdrasil.
Valk:
1. WoE was not delayed until enough guilds were created on Valkyrie, leading to monopolization.
2. Both WoE 2.0 and 1.0 were active on Valkyrie.
3. God item components were available the moment WoE was implemented.
Ygg:
1. WoE was delayed to give players a chance to create guilds.
2. After numerous request by Ygg players, Limited WoE 1.0 began (with select few castles opened).
3. God item components were not available when WoE was opened. (God components were made available at a much later date)

GMs did take the pre-caution on Yggdrasil, but their decision to open the rest of the WoE castles and enabling god item component drops on Yggdrasil was what made Ygg WoE similar to Valk. Couple this with Ymir --> Ygg or Valk --> Ygg transfers that resulted in high-end equipments being transferred to a relatively new server. Oversight of transfer issue as well as poor GM decisions messed up Ygg WoE, but it's incorrect to say that they didn't give a $hit about Ygg WoE.

Edited by zr0rieu, 31 October 2011 - 11:04 AM.

[Xellie]

Its so difficult tho

no god items = no motivation

or god item drops but some castles = impossible to complete items

I suppose the best route would have been to fully open woe and disable all god item compent drops for a long time just to nurtue competition.

But how to motivate players?

Well, there aren't a lot of people who are willing to spend a lot of time to be some mediocre guild.

Exactly my point D:

[zr0rieu]

Motivation factor is something that needs to be discussed with the community, which GMs clearly did not do. Honestly GM team should have started listening to the players much earlier. Valk WoE as of now cannot be changed to "undo" the damages done by the early WoE opening, but Yggdrasil WoE should still be able to be salvaged.

Edited by zr0rieu, 31 October 2011 - 12:26 PM.

[Xellie]

Have god items started creation on ygg? ( WoE 1.0 I mean)

[CeruleanGamer]

Have god items started creation on ygg? ( WoE 1.0 I mean)

Made 1 Meg so far. Valkyrie is opening more seals atm and they are the only ones doing it.

[Xellie]

Made 1 Meg so far. Valkyrie is opening more seals atm and they are the only ones doing it.

My proposed solution then would be to do to ygg how WoE on chaos came about.

disable creation until there is suitable distribution of castle wealth. .... if ever.

Edited by Xellie, 31 October 2011 - 01:19 PM.

[Clogon]

yes megs have been created.

I should refresh my pages before posting. XD

Edited by Clogon, 31 October 2011 - 01:43 PM.

[Xellie]

The reason why I suggest it now, is that Valkyrie got their perk for being on the ball and ahead of everyone, right? So instead of it becoming a domination scene, cut it back and let the game grow. People can still collect parts for craziness later on.

[Kadnya]

My suggestion would be that rather than fighting to make god items, it would be possible to fight over the control of god items. Imagine for example if when X guild was ready to made a god item, an equal item is destroyed from Y guild which is on the opposing side. I feel that without strong items ever leaving the game or losing some power/usefulness over the time, eventually any server ends saturated with lots of items and the game becomes less and less appealing....

If there was maybe a way to pay a bit for the costs of the starting guilds withing reasonable limits too...

As (I think Fen?) said once, unlike real war in woe you want the enemy to keep fighting, and stay motivated to keep fighting. While for a few players it might be okay to do a super effort in catching supplies for a guild and trying to raise against the dominating guild of the moment, for many others trying to catch supplies, gear, levels, and players to be able to compete in the level of the dominating side is too much.

Maybe if woe was kinda guided and eventually there was something like a Gm supplying chara bound potions usable only in woe and trying to lead an offensive against the dominating guild, for the fun of everyone... it might be a too crazy idea, but maybe something like that from time to time would lead the non-so-established sides to eventually be able to compete themselves, and keep the game fun for everyone. Just random thought xP...

Edited by Kadnya, 31 October 2011 - 02:09 PM.

[Andini]

gms wont do anything, gl valk!!!!

Edited by Andini, 31 October 2011 - 02:04 PM.

[kite24]

Maybe if woe was kinda guided and eventually there was something like a Gm supplying chara bound potions usable only in woe and trying to lead an offensive against the dominating guild, for the fun of everyone... it might be a too crazy idea, but maybe something like that from time to time would lead the non-so-established sides to eventually be able to compete themselves, and keep the game fun for everyone. Just random thought xP...

Problem is, GMs would not do that due to the fact that it would be "unfair" for the defending side.

Sometimes it's not for fun anymore. People actually want to be top dog in this game, meaning they won't let go until someone strong enough forces them to step down. It's a cycle. Even when Valk step downs (in 10 years or so), another guild would probably take their place.

[asayuu]

@Kadnya~:

Not a bad idea, but of course no God Item owners would approve.

God Items being one-month rental items? /gg

[Inubashiri]

@Kadnya~:

Not a bad idea, but of course no God Item owners would approve.

God Items being one-month rental items? /gg

I do not approve

[Zinja]

My suggestion would be that rather than fighting to make god items, it would be possible to fight over the control of god items. Imagine for example if when X guild was ready to made a god item, an equal item is destroyed from Y guild which is on the opposing side. I feel that without strong items ever leaving the game or losing some power/usefulness over the time, eventually any server ends saturated with lots of items and the game becomes less and less appealing....

in any scenario you consider regarding this idea ,which ever is the most powerful will have complete unrivaled monopoly of the god items. which i believe leads the second part of your suggestion of gm backed ( in terms of resources woe pots " ) completion against the most powerful guild. I believe the general idea that has been underlying is to not let any one guild have that kind of monopoly or power ( or attention ..lol). there shouldnt have to be situations where a gm has to intervene for anything ... except breaking buggy castles lol..

[Phil]

Just wait for "Ragnarok" where the mortals will have another fair chance to fight with the gods, valkyries ^__^

i think its fate lol...

http://www.mangafox....v01/c001/1.html



lolol problem???

Edited by Phil, 31 October 2011 - 08:40 PM.

[MrBudd]

WTF is this?? I don't come on to the forums for 24hrs or so this thread pops up??

I'm lost here, anyone care to do up an executive summary for all this??

From what I can understand and correct me if I'm wrong here.. but do some people here think it's IMPOSSIBLE to catch up and this game should NOT be about working smarter and harder to achieve something??? A guild is like a company, it's only as good as the people that lead it. Crappy organizations have crappy people at the top and turn into not-so-crappy organizations when they replace baddie execs with good execs. I'm proud to say that Valkyrie as well as all the other top guilds I've ever dealt with have always had good leadership as well as members that would take ownership of the guild and not just treat it like a temporary home.

If you're starting fresh or fairly fresh in this game, you can still have a chance if you're smart about it and willing to work hard to get what you want. God items, MVP cards and stuff are just excuses people come up with when they're too lazy to work for it. Sure I can take out a precast with my quad-megged, double sleipd, tao-carded bryn wearing RK spamming storm blast with my +9001 ungodly MVP carded KVM spear made of unobtainium... UNTIL... some skanky chaser decides to strip me to my undies and puts me into a manhole. God items+MVP cards ftw!!

I don't know if people realize this but gravity has enabled quite a few equalizers in the game, I won't go into the details of what but they are there if you decide to look for it. Folks coming to/back to the game expecting this to be a a fully balanced game of pong always seem to be the underachievers in life and need to put a little more than a half assed effort into it. I hear in some US states, it's not possible to fail a kid in school any more no matter how dumb he is. I mean in the game of life and the wars between students, everyone should be equal and those that work harder and smarter than the rest should be penalized to maintain a norm.

I'm going to summarize this with the same thing I tell business owners that pay me stupid amounts of money for consultation work

"You can do it, don't be lazy"

[Zinja]

WTF is this?? I don't come on to the forums for 24hrs or so this thread pops up??

I'm lost here, anyone care to do up an executive summary for all this??

From what I can understand and correct me if I'm wrong here.. but do some people here think it's IMPOSSIBLE to catch up and this game should NOT be about working smarter and harder to achieve something??? A guild is like a company, it's only as good as the people that lead it. Crappy organizations have crappy people at the top and turn into not-so-crappy organizations when they replace baddie execs with good execs. I'm proud to say that Valkyrie as well as all the other top guilds I've ever dealt with have always had good leadership as well as members that would take ownership of the guild and not just treat it like a temporary home.

If you're starting fresh or fairly fresh in this game, you can still have a chance if you're smart about it and willing to work hard to get what you want. God items, MVP cards and stuff are just excuses people come up with when they're too lazy to work for it. Sure I can take out a precast with my quad-megged, double sleipd, tao-carded bryn wearing RK spamming storm blast with my +9001 ungodly MVP carded KVM spear made of unobtainium... UNTIL... some skanky chaser decides to strip me to my undies and puts me into a manhole. God items+MVP cards ftw!!

I don't know if people realize this but gravity has enabled quite a few equalizers in the game, I won't go into the details of what but they are there if you decide to look for it. Folks coming to/back to the game expecting this to be a a fully balanced game of pong always seem to be the underachievers in life and need to put a little more than a half assed effort into it. I hear in some US states, it's not possible to fail a kid in school any more no matter how dumb he is. I mean in the game of life and the wars between students, everyone should be equal and those that work harder and smarter than the rest should be penalized to maintain a norm.

I'm going to summarize this with the same thing I tell business owners that pay me stupid amounts of money for consultation work

"You can do it, don't be lazy"

lmao i must obtain this unobtainium
hahah skanky chasers are deadly o.o

[MrBudd]

Skanky chasers totally slay me



When this girl comes after me during WoE telling me to unmount so she can strip me and put me in her hole, it's going to be hard to say no even with god items and mvp cards, especially if she's got a lot of *cough* Dex *cough*.

[CeruleanGamer]

LOL @ Budd.

[Scuba]

Actually its surprising how little God items seem to matter in the hands of smokyrie anyways... Its weird this thread is coming up now. Especially considering most of the players that started the guild don't handle it anymore.

[darktie22]

*Cough* Harmonize *Cough*