9 replies to this topic

[SuperAzusa]

For more background story, please refer to this thread.

Here is a PM I received from someone after that thread was locked:

Simply put, your thread was amazing. The amount of realism it must've taken to come to the conclusions that you have about gambling is astounding and the fact that you came them in the first place is extremely mature.

As an avid MMO player I can tell you that the stuff you talked about was more than accurate. Milking the player for all they've got over a long period of time is the sole reason for them to exist these days. The golden age of MMOs has passed, existing mainly from the period of 2002-2008.

Because of how competitive the industry has become and the original developers losing interest in the games they have created, games such as Ragnarok, Runescape and WoW have sold out all sense of tradition they once had in order to become empty shells of the magnificent gaming experiences they once were.

Ragnarok Online is addictive by its own merit. Whether by subscription only, F2P with cash shop, or even private server people will still play it.

I am totally disappointed with the direction game design has had to resort to by milking its playerbase with continously renewed items to entice people to keep playing.
Cash shop sucks (literally), but I am a firm believer in letting people do what they want. Hey, if you want to pay for items that do nothing to enhance your real life, by all means, DO IT.
It is your money to do with as you please.

But when you use an already addictive game to cleverly disguise FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENTS OF A CASINO... this is a serious problem.

What is this casino I speak of?

The refinement NPCs.

Sure, you can use plain elu/oris to upgrade. But past a certain point, your item has the chance to break. Disappear. YOU CRY.
But Gravity is here to the rescue! We will sell you BETTER METALS that will ensure your item does not break! However, these cost real money my friend!

The definition of gambling is that it is a GAME OF CHANCE THAT INVOLVES MONEY.

Is there a CHANCE that your item may be upgraded? YES
Is real money involved? ABSOLUTELY

Some might make the argument that YOU DONT NEED TO SPEND REAL MONEY STUPID! YOU CAN BUY EVERYTHING IN GAME WITH ZENY!

To that, I reply, "AND WHERE DO YOU THINK THE KAFRA ITEMS BEING VENDED CAME FROM, STUPID?"

Real money has changed hands. Either directly or indirectly, this money eventually makes its way to being spent in the iRO casino.

Real life casinos pay taxes to operate as a casino.
Real life casinos by law must follow rules and regulations to operate as a casino.
Real life casinos implement age limits to prevent underaged people from gambling.
iRO does none of these, yet continues to operate with impunity.

In a casino, you can lay down real money in order to win real money.
In the iRO casino, you can lay down real money, but the payout is never in real money.

In fact, the flow of real money is a one way stream. Who would play at a casino where you get nothing tangible or valuable in return?

I certainly would not.

To conclude, and to summarize what I want to say:
Milking your playerbase is fine, but running a hidden casino that uses real money inside your game is F'ED UP and this practice must cease.

Someone with more connections and resources than myself just might take you to court over it.

[CeruleanGamer]

I thought you quit? Why do you keep trying to troll the boards?

[sakurawings1]

yeah i thought you said "hurr hur rmy last post"? Lol

[SuperAzusa]

I thought you quit? Why do you keep trying to troll the boards?

you obviously did not read a word i posted. enjoy your addiction.

[An1ma]

YOU DONT NEED TO SPEND REAL MONEY STUPID! YOU CAN BUY EVERYTHING IN GAME WITH ZENY!

qft

[MeisterKirisaki]

I got your point after reading your first thread.

[Sera]

I thought you quit? Why do you keep trying to troll the beards?

BEWARE THE BEARDS

[shurareki]

do you make some valid points yes. but you do know this event was just that an event it was put in so they would make more money and boy did they. this games upgrading system has always been a gamble that's how it was designed i don't know exactly what you want but i can tell you that if you think they are just gonna hand out +9 gear all the time then your mistaken. I didn't pay one cent into this event for the mere reason that i knew it would be a gamble. but you do understand that even when you gamble on slot machines you dont receive anything 98% of the time. you give your money away and thats it. here its different you gave your money to gravity so you would have a better chance at getting your item higher if you failed you didn't loose your item it was downgraded now if they made it so you lost it then yes that would be worse. in this gamble you still have the security that your item will not go away.

you are going to be hard pressed to find any mmo or game where you don't "gamble".
Hell you gambled on making a battle priest and i think that's awesome because i like diversity in this game.

[KitanaWalker]

As a Buddhist, I would argue that most things that are tangible and cost money do not add value to your life, and that includes more money. One could argue that movies, videogames, comic books add as much value to your life as would property that exists in a digital realm.
To some having a powerful weapon in a video game gives them more entertainment than viewing a movie. The major difference is that when you view a movie, you have a somewhat concrete idea of costs, barring fuel consumption, snacks, and time consumption, but in iRO's upgrade system, I believe you only have a general idea of the cost of upgrading your equipment.
The obvious argument is that the gambling itself is entertaining. Well grounded people don't believe they will make a profit while gambling, the same way RO players realize they will not make a profit upgrading their equipment. The only problem is that children exposed to addictive activities are more likely to engage in these activities as an adult, and without a proper perspective these activities can be destructive.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you need a credit card or checks to ultimately purchase these upgrading materials? And the idea is that by requiring a credit card or check, the person in question is at least 18.

On a different note, the paradigm for MMO cash shops has shifted. I believe I read something similar on this very forum. Instead of directly purchasing things that directly enhance the gaming experience, you must spend much more sums of money gambling for pieces that in earlier years were obtainable directly. I believe the example was about spooky boxes that rendered a random item. This new cash shop paradigm is vastly more profitable than the older version of direct purchase. Of course many gamers have problems with the new paradigm, but it only takes relatively few gamers to dump hundreds, if not thousands of dollars each, gambling for what they want. It is disturbing to see what many consider "a huge waste of money", but it is not our place to tell people with disposable income that watching movies and buying video games is better than "gambling" in their favorite MMO, because they chose their form of entertainment, and you can't objectively say one form of entertainment has more merit. Some people collect stamps, some people like model trains, some people watch birds, some people climb rocks, some people read comic books, some people play video games, and some people dump large sums of money into video games when it is not necessarily warranted, but that is their choice.

[KitanaWalker]

As a Buddhist, I would argue that most things that are tangible and cost money do not add value to your life, and that includes more money. One could argue that movies, videogames, comic books add as much value to your life as would property that exists in a digital realm.
To some having a powerful weapon in a video game gives them more entertainment than viewing a movie. The major difference is that when you view a movie, you have a somewhat concrete idea of costs, barring fuel consumption, snacks, and time consumption, but in iRO's upgrade system, I believe you only have a general idea of the cost of upgrading your equipment.
The obvious argument is that the gambling itself is entertaining. Well grounded people don't believe they will make a profit while gambling, the same way RO players realize they will not make a profit upgrading their equipment. The only problem is that children exposed to addictive activities are more likely to engage in these activities as an adult, and without a proper perspective these activities can be destructive.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you need a credit card or checks to ultimately purchase these upgrading materials? And the idea is that by requiring a credit card or check, the person in question is at least 18.

On a different note, the paradigm for MMO cash shops has shifted. I believe I read something similar on this very forum. Instead of directly purchasing things that directly enhance the gaming experience, you must spend much more sums of money gambling for pieces that in earlier years were obtainable directly. I believe the example was about spooky boxes that rendered a random item. This new cash shop paradigm is vastly more profitable than the older version of direct purchase. Of course many gamers have problems with the new paradigm, but it only takes relatively few gamers to dump hundreds, if not thousands of dollars each, gambling for what they want. It is disturbing to see what many consider "a huge waste of money", but it is not our place to tell people with disposable income that watching movies and buying video games is better than "gambling" in their favorite MMO, because they chose their form of entertainment, and you can't objectively say one form of entertainment has more merit. Some people collect stamps, some people like model trains, some people watch birds, some people climb rocks, some people read comic books, some people play video games, and some people dump large sums of money into video games when it is not necessarily warranted, but that is their choice.