72 replies to this topic

[CeruleanGamer]

Let's be honest.. there are only a handful of people grinding outside of turn-ins since they tell themselves "what's the point of killing the same stuff over and over for 6 hours if I can do a turn-in quest, clear it within 1-2 hours with a party, consume less supplies, and get the same if not significantly more EXP?"

Also, we have not gotten Biolab 2 for over 3-4 months now and it was the only time that TI was released ever and you're telling us to wait for it longer when we have cycled through 6-7 Scarab/Thors TIs and 3-4 Biolab3 TIs already.... If the GMs would tell us they won't release that TI because it was mistake and they would never do it again, I would take that excuse but since they haven't yet, so many people assume they'll release it again in the future.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 16 January 2012 - 05:47 PM.

[Akami]

How many times do we need to say it? The problem is you've done Bio3 too many damn times over the last few months. You really shouldn't be saying 'wait for something else to come around' when that's pretty much been the go-to choice for the high tier range for the past 5 months.

[Ralis]

They're cycling through the same exact turnins. It seems to be Scarabs have been done more often than Bio3, honestly.

I'll just keep saying the same thing as well: chill out and wait a few weeks for a different turnin if you don't like it. You're not going to burst into flames if you don't get 150 this week. The fact is that nothing's even been announced. People are whining about something they don't even know is for sure coming. How sad is that?

[Hinkypunk]

They're cycling through the same exact turnins. It seems to be Scarabs have been done more often than Bio3, honestly.

I'll just keep saying the same thing as well: chill out and wait a few weeks for a different turnin if you don't like it. You're not going to burst into flames if you don't get 150 this week. The fact is that nothing's even been announced. People are whining about something they don't even know is for sure coming. How sad is that?

I thought we were debating rather than whining?

[Ralis]

The last few posts here, yes, but there are others in this thread and on the forums that have been nothing more than complaints about the prospect of a Bio3 Turnin.

[Ralis]

Look, let me be clear:

I don't disagree that there are better turnins that benefit more people than Bio3, but the game shouldn't be a cakewalk. Trust me, I vastly prefer Scarabs to Bio3 myself, but I'm just tired of people complaining when their 150 characters aren't handed to them on a silver platter. People refuse to level without a double EXP event and easy turnins now, and it bothers me. Maybe I'm a complete masochist, but I loved the feeling of accomplishment that I got prerenewal from leveling my Paladin from 93 to 94 off of Alices and Alizas for days on end. Now it just feels like we've had so much cake shoveled into our faces that we refuse to eat anything else.

/terribleanalogyandemotionalprerenewalstory

[CeruleanGamer]

We are not asking for leveling to be cakewalk. We want TI parties where every class feels they are important and they are being rewarded fairly for their efforts... (sucks how they nerfed the EXP rewards for the last bio3 TI without notice...)

[Hinkypunk]

The last few posts here, yes, but there are others in this thread and on the forums that have been nothing more than complaints about the prospect of a Bio3 Turnin.

Here's the thing, though: regardless of whether or not you perceive certain posts to be "whining," the WarpPortal forums, by their very existence, are for players to give feedback (i.e. communicating their ideas, opinions, criticisms, etc.). Who are you to disparage posted complaints as "whining" just because you disagree with the content of their message?

And sorry to break it to you, but being a forum moderator--volunteer or otherwise--doesn't include rudely dismissing the opinions of others.

[Ralis]

Here's the thing, though: regardless of whether or not you perceive certain posts to be "whining," the WarpPortal forums, by their very existence, are for players to give feedback (i.e. communicating their ideas, opinions, criticisms, etc.). Who are you to disparage posted complaints as "whining" just because you disagree with the content of their message?

And sorry to break it to you, but being a forum moderator--volunteer or otherwise--doesn't include rudely dismissing the opinions of others.

You cannot give feedback when something has yet to happen. Similarly, "Don't do this because I don't like it" is not feedback.

I'm not sure when this became a matter of status... My opinion on the matter would remain the same either way. Lastly, if there were no dismissing of opinions we wouldn't be having this conversation. You've dismissed mine just as I've dismissed some of yours.

Again, I don't disagree on everything you say, but I would like it if people could have a little patience and just wait for another turnin to roll around rather than complain about it.

[lainee]

Look, let me be clear:

... but I'm just tired of people complaining when their 150 characters aren't handed to them on a silver platter. People refuse to level without a double EXP event and easy turnins now, and it bothers me. Maybe I'm a complete masochist, but I loved the feeling of accomplishment that I got prerenewal from leveling my Paladin from 93 to 94 off of Alices and Alizas for days on end.

...and I'm just tired of certain people complaining about 150 characters supposedly being handed out on a silver platters, when they literally only played for a few months on a pre-trans server, and and in reality have less than zero conception at all what 'grinding' really was in RO's earlier eras of limited maps and gears, or the game in general and then tell people they are 'whining'.

Oh and let me be clear:

General opinion of Bio3 from posters here: "lets have turn-ins all classes can do"

Rallis: "for some reason others think that their needs are more important."

I suggest a little remedial reading comprehension class. Being a mod and all (and I really have no idea why or how), it would possibly pay some dividends.

Edited by lainee, 16 January 2012 - 06:53 PM.

[Inubashiri]

Just so this doesn't turn into another mod flame fest, mods are users too and are entitled to opinions as well. BUT, Ralis probably could have worded that better as to not incite a backlash. For now I would like to respectfully ask that all parties drop the status warfare from this point on and lets all be respectful of each others opinions and not accuse people of whining or stamp "noob" on their forehead in a split second.

[Ralis]

I started playing in July of 2009... Renewal happened October 2010. That's more than a few months. Regardless of how long someone's been playing, I don't think telling someone they can't have an opinion is right. It's like that age-old Ymir / Valk rivalry of "You're from Valk, your opinion doesn't matter."

All classes can do Bio3, some just more effectively than others. It's the same thing with every turnin. Just because you cannot do it doesn't mean other people can't and won't. If those with less experience can have their turn, why can't the more experienced players? Again, it's not like another turnin for you to do won't come around in a few weeks. You can always level another character or find something else to do.

And please, please keep the personal remarks out of it. I'm not insulting your intelligence, so please don't insult mine.

Edited by Ralis, 16 January 2012 - 07:12 PM.

[lainee]

I had been willing to let things go after Inu's sensible post. However as Rallis chose not to take that advice (as a 'Mod') neither shall I (as a 'forum member')

I started playing in July of 2009... Renewal happened October 2010. That's more than a few months. Regardless of how long someone's been playing, I don't think telling someone they can't have an opinion is right. It's like that age-old Ymir / Valk rivalry of "You're from Valk, your opinion doesn't matter."

I disagree with the Ymir/Valk analogy. There are plenty of experienced players on Valk. You just happen not to be one of them.
Also iRO opened 1 June 2003, so in the general scheme of things, yes you only played a 'few months' - especially at a high level. The point still stands you have no idea what 'grinding' really was and thus are not in a position to tell others you think they are leveling too fast or easy.

Again, it's not like another turnin for you to do won't come around in a few weeks. You can always level another character or find something else to do.

You keep using the word 'you'. Again you seem to be having comprehension issues. For me, it really does not matter as I have characters I can level on various accounts at all different TI brackets including the upper bracket regardless if its bio3 or not - I'm also fortunate enough to be in one of the larger Ymir WoE guilds that also organizes TI's parties for guild members - what I am trying to articulate, and what you are completely failing to understand is that I would like to see a little less of other players sitting in Eden all day trying to get a party and being constantly rejected - which is the net result of Bio3 occurring too often.

And please, please keep the personal remarks out of it. I'm not insulting your intelligence, so please don't insult mine.

Coming from the person that initially started tossing about the term "whining", that is incredibly rich.

Edited by lainee, 16 January 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[DarkDan]

In my opinion Bio 3 sucks as a turn in. I hate to be blunt but I don't play the game for PvE. I grind to level my character. I am not looking for a challenge lol. People can make a party and go to Bio 3 without a turn if they want a challenge. Tired of hearing people say,"go level somewhere else during Bio 3 turn in." I do level without turn ins. My RG maybe had 2 or 3 turn ins to 150. Same for my Sura. Bio 3 is tough enough as is. People who want to level need a turn in that is worth spending cash(resets, med life potions, regen pots,ect..)or zeny on. It is pretty obvious that leveling in Bio 3 on my 141/50 GX is not going to be a lot of fun.

I think its time for Bio 2. Just my opinion. Make the high levels happy for once.

[Inubashiri]

Ralis/lainee, check your PMs so this doesn't escalate. Thanks.

Edited by Inubashiri, 16 January 2012 - 08:19 PM.

[sunofnothing]

Less QQ, more pewpew!

[CeruleanGamer]

All classes can do Bio3, some just more effectively than others. It's the same thing with every turnin. Just because you cannot do it doesn't mean other people can't and won't. If those with less experience can have their turn, why can't the more experienced players? Again, it's not like another turnin for you to do won't come around in a few weeks. You can always level another character or find something else to do.

You say that but you cannot deny that class discrimination exists in the game. You probably don't understand this because you play an RG and a Sura and those classes are always wanted in any party. It is a problem that we cannot solve other than GMs making friendlier turn-ins that welcomes any player regardless of whatever class they are playing. Sure, the elitists can say it's more "easy mode", but in the long run, more players will be pleased.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 16 January 2012 - 10:49 PM.

[Xellie]

I love catching up on these topics.... And a few things I'd like to say... umm

I simply don't understand why people can't simply wait a few weeks for a different turnin to roll around. There are people who can do Bio3 and want to do Bio3, but for some reason others think that their needs are more important. It's not going to kill you if a turnin that you're not happy with is going to be in for a week.

First of all : why can't people "wait a few weeks".... BECAUSE VIP DOESNT WORK THAT WAY.
If hourly VIP existed then sure. Fantastic, but it doesn't. Having to wait on the unreliability that is turn ins is crap.

Compounded by
Lack of parties outside of TIs. (still)

As much as I've been an advocate for Bio3 (and still am) I'd like to see something like this....

2 TIs on 2 maps when bio3 rolls around, because there is still NO POINT going to bio outside of a turn in the EXP is STILL TOO LOW for the difficulty.

But, For what it's worth, nobody would bother doing it anyway if there was an easier turn in available. Unless it was a perk ontop of the main TI. It's tricky but the whole TI system needs to be looked at from a distance, it's become a problem in my eyes that it's replaced all forms of levelling and people still just wait their turns.

edit edit edit : I forget who said it but DG wouldn't discriminate mage classes. TIs discriminate against one class or type of class every week so it's par for the course if it did. But it doesn't. I'd opt to fist the angels and then have AoE go nuts on everything else.

Edited by Xellie, 16 January 2012 - 11:38 PM.

[MagicHands]

Lol you get 6 months worth of 150% base and job exp along with 1% exp loss from death, but that still isnt enough I guess.
If you have problems with leveling there, did how I did and the rest of the community did when renewal came out.
Level up killing monsters without the TI's.

[Xellie]

Lol you get 6 months worth of 150% base and job exp along with 1% exp loss from death, but that still isnt enough I guess.
If you have problems with leveling there, did how I did and the rest of the community did when renewal came out.
Level up killing monsters without the TI's.

I'm not VIP

Nice assumption tho~~~~~~~~~~~

[asayuu]

Whatever. Put bio3 permanent for 135~150, in a eden signboard. Maybe even put a bio3 NPC on eden "asking for challenged people"

So the 140~150 make their turnin event on their on week, and choose between grinding somewhere or bio3 on their off week.

@Xellie [mages at DG]:

They are really not. And you don't need to fist any angel :3... Psychic Wave is neutral element, unless the sorcerer has a summon. And if a warlock needs to kill the angel, there is Comet or Hell Inferno (Shadow element magic)

Anyways, a party of 12 people and only the mages [and healers] having work? Weiiiiirrdd~~~~!

@bio3 again:

I don't LIKE bio3 for only one reason: I mained a wanderer. Now that not even Gloomy worth using [2/3 of the performers removed the skill of their builds], it is hard to be useful. Yeah, surely I could GK and alt-tab around, but those picky people rarely would call me for a party. I do and do well in a party of randoms hehe :3

But... Dazzler is cool crowd control in bio3... I like it <3... I wish Dazzler worked the same way in WOE.

[Xellie]

@Xellie [mages at DG]:

They are really not. And you don't need to fist any angel :3... Psychic Wave is neutral element, unless the sorcerer has a summon. And if a warlock needs to kill the angel, there is Comet or Hell Inferno (Shadow element magic)

Anyways, a party of 12 people and only the mages [and healers] having work? Weiiiiirrdd~~~~!

nonononono, the angels have magic mirror.

[Shiroi17]

I'd like to point out that nearly nobody does Bio3 on Yggdrasil. A lot of flawed logic here ...

#1 Nerf classes, game is too easy, make half classes useless in party play/soloing
#2 Buff monster, game is too easy, party up
#3 Nerf XP reward, game is too easy
#4 Bio3 too hard? Go solo or wait 1 month and pay for VIP again.

Oh wait right, most classes can't solo properly anymore


We had Biolab2 only once and it was in september =(