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#1 Drak231

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 06:44 AM

*Sorry for the double thread, but it seems I won't get answers on the other sub-forum*

Hello, I'm not sure how the damage is calculated, but level 5 wind blade does more damage (3*100%MATK) than level 5 lightning jolt (360%MATK)...

I'm not sure to understand why...

Is it because it's 3 hit and the mdef calculation differs? Is the description wrong? Is it anything else?

Thank you!


Sources:

http://irowiki.org/wiki/Wind_Blade

http://irowiki.org/wiki/Lightning_Jolt
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#2 IronPlushy

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 10:59 AM

Have you taken into account elemental weaknesses and resistances?
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#3 Drak231

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 05:57 PM

It was the same mob
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#4 DrAzzy

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 12:25 PM

Please post your damage numbers and stats - record damage while naked (so the damage isn't confounded by the varying atk from weapon), and let's look at the numbers and see if we can figure it out.

Hardly anyone plays ninja, and fewer still go lightning - so you may well be the first to notice this; so if you please, let's try to figure out what's going on here.
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#5 Drak231

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 07:09 PM

Please post your damage numbers and stats - record damage while naked (so the damage isn't confounded by the varying atk from weapon), and let's look at the numbers and see if we can figure it out.

Hardly anyone plays ninja, and fewer still go lightning - so you may well be the first to notice this; so if you please, let's try to figure out what's going on here.


Level : 35
Naked; no equip
Monster : Hydra
Int: 49 + 2
Dex: 20 + 3
Luk: 10 + 1
Matk: 91
Windblade level 5 : 513 (always)
Lightning Jolt level 5 : 432 (always; one or multiple enemies)

According to (http://db.irowiki.or...ster-info/1068/) Hydra have 175% Matk against wind. If I understand correctly, 32 Mdef provides 21,82% reduction.

So: 91*1.75*(1-0.2182)= 124,50165
432/124,50165 = 347% (close to 360%)
513/124,50165 = 412% (not close to 300%)
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#6 DrAzzy

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 09:58 AM

Hmm - Let's take matk and int out of the equation, can you repeat that test on porings, with 1 int and a vanishingly small 5 mdef?

The main issue is that the int-type mdef greatly complicates matters.

Edited by DrAzzy, 27 January 2012 - 09:58 AM.

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#7 Drak231

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 11:49 AM

Alright, I used the free reset haha. This is important as it could change my future skill build.

While I'm at it, I'll test First wind as well.

Level : 35
Naked; no equip
Monster : Poring
Testing all 3 wind skills.
Str: 1
Agi: 1 + 5
Vit: 1
Int: 1 + 2
Dex: 1 + 3
Luk: 1 + 1
Matk: 12
Windblade level 5: 87 (always)
Lightning Jolt level 5: 71 (always; one or multiple enemies)
First Wind level 5: 119 (always; one or multiple enemies)

Poring also have 175% Matk against wind. Like I said earlier, if I understand correctly, 5 Mdef provides 4,29% reduction.

So: 12*1.75*(1-0.0429)= 20,0991
87/20.0991 = 433% (not close to 300%)
71/20.0991 = 353% (close to 360%)
119/20.0991 = 592% (close to 600%)


Oh and I just realized you were talking about theporing having 1 int, not me lol. But no worries, I don't mind as I needed to reset anyway :P
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#8 Drak231

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 03:26 PM

BUMP
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#9 DrAzzy

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 05:46 PM

Wait - so you're saying that in the first test, Wind Blade did more damage, but in the second test, Lightning Jolt did more?
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#10 Drak231

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:34 AM

Nope, in both test windblade did more damage.
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#11 Drak231

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:24 PM

New test with first wind level 2 (300% MAtk)

Level : 35
Naked; no equip
Monster : Poring
Testing all 3 wind skills.
Str: 1
Agi: 1 + 5
Vit: 1
Int: 58 + 2
Dex: 1 + 3
Luk: 1 + 1
Matk: 98
Windblade level 5: 735 (always)
Lightning Jolt level 5: 588 (always; one or multiple enemies)
First Wind level 2: 491 (always; one or multiple enemies)
First Wind level 5: 983 (always; one or multiple enemies)

Poring also have 175% Matk against wind. Like I said earlier, if I understand correctly, 5 Mdef provides 4,29% reduction.

So: 98*1.75*(1-0.0429)= 164,14265
735/164,14265 = 448% (not close to 300%)
588/164,14265 = 358% (close to 360%)
491/164,14265 = 299% (close to 300%)
983/164,14265 = 599% (close to 600%)

Conclusion : Wind blade level does more than 300% MAtk damage.

2 possibilities I see:
1- Wind blade level 5 does more damage than level 4, but in the end (at level 10), it really is 600% MAtk
2- Wind blade does more damage than 100% MAtk per hit

Oh well, I wonder if anyone care lol!
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#12 Anchors

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 11:11 AM

How much %-wise do level 2, 3, and 4 wind blade deal? I'm wondering if the second levels of each # of hits (e.g. levels 4 and 5 both deal 3 hits of damage) deals more damage per hit than the first... There might be a pattern to discover there (and that claim of 100% matk per hit might just be plain wrong).
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#13 Drak231

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:10 PM

How much %-wise do level 2, 3, and 4 wind blade deal? I'm wondering if the second levels of each # of hits (e.g. levels 4 and 5 both deal 3 hits of damage) deals more damage per hit than the first... There might be a pattern to discover there (and that claim of 100% matk per hit might just be plain wrong).


Yeah you're right, I should have done a more complete test

Edited in Red:

New test with first wind level 2 (300% MAtk)

Level : 35
Naked; no equip
Monster : Poring
Testing all 3 wind skills.
Str: 1
Agi: 1 + 5
Vit: 1
Int: 58 + 2
Dex: 1 + 3
Luk: 1 + 1
Matk: 98
Windblade level 1: 245 (always)
Windblade level 2: 490 (always)
Windblade level 3: 490 (always)
Windblade level 4: 735 (always)

Windblade level 5: 735 (always)
Lightning Jolt level 5: 588 (always; one or multiple enemies)
First Wind level 2: 491 (always; one or multiple enemies)
First Wind level 5: 983 (always; one or multiple enemies)

Poring also have 175% Matk against wind. Like I said earlier, if I understand correctly, 5 Mdef provides 4,29% reduction.

So: 98*1.75*(1-0.0429)= 164,14265
Windblade level 1: 245/164,14265 = 149% (not close to 100%)
Windblade level 2-3: 490/164,14265 = 299% (not close to 200%)
Windblade level 4-5: 735/164,14265 = 448% (not close to 300%)
Lightning Jolt level 5: 588/164,14265 = 358% (close to 360%)
First Wind level 2: 491/164,14265 = 299% (close to 300%)
First Wind level 5: 983/164,14265 = 599% (close to 600%)

Conclusion : Wind blade level does more than 300% MAtk damage.

2 possibilities I see:
1- Wind blade level 5 does more damage than level 4, but in the end (at level 10), it really is 600% MAtk
2- Wind blade does more damage than 100% MAtk per hit

Oh well, I wonder if anyone care lol!


Nice! It's actually 150% of MAtk! This means First Wind is not as appealing at all...

Edit: I guess I'll also do these tests eventually with the other 2 ice and fire branches.

Level 5 freezing spear seems to do 70% Matk. I'll confirm when I'll have Snow Flake Draft.

Edited by Drak231, 07 February 2012 - 07:29 PM.

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#14 Anchors

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 10:27 PM

Yeah you're right, I should have done a more complete test


On the contrary - it was your previous testing that hinted to me that there might be a different pattern than described on the wiki. I guessed an answer more complex than the actual answer, though, derp~

But we have an answer now. Now I'm thinking of switching to water/fire to lightning/water /swt
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#15 DrAzzy

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:30 PM

Freezing Spear was always supposed to do 70% matk/hit. When it was first introduced, it was bugged and did 100% matk per hit. It sounds like this was fixed at some point.

Change to windblade to do 150%/hit is a good thing.

Do note that First Wind is an AoE, unlike wind blade.
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#16 Drak231

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:39 PM

Do note that First Wind is an AoE, unlike wind blade.


First Wind is not really an AoE. It acts like focused arrow strike. I prefer to max wind blade...
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