40 replies to this topic

[Ralis]

You can 100 four out of six stats in Renewal... Kind of ridiculous.

[kasshin]

I actually agree with a lot of the balance changes... but what they did with wanderers I cannot agree with. Why make a class just completely inferior at PVM, WoE, PVP, MVP? It doesn't look like any fixes are coming any time soon from kRO either.

[Wiggles]

I actually agree with a lot of the balance changes... but what they did with wanderers I cannot agree with. Why make a class just completely inferior at PVM, WoE, PVP, MVP? It doesn't look like any fixes are coming any time soon from kRO either.

I agree with you entirely. Everything they did was good, HOWEVER the point still remains that they missed so much stuff and there is still a LOT more that needs fixing.

It seems to have slipped through the cracks - its almost a year since the original balance talks started, but still the game is no where near balanced.

Everything always seems to be a bandaid patch in this game. Its like putting lots of bandaids on to fix a broken leg.

[candyZ]

Nerf to performers' offensive skills is gone a little too far. Yet, maybe it's intended so performers utilise more of their support skills

You'll be surprised how powerful a group of characters can be when they're consistently buffed by maestro/wanderer

[frankSG07]

yeah Suras are still OP.
yeah GX are not bad before but buffed anyways.
yeah Performers. . . . . .
yeah Rangers are better

[ultra39]

Nerf to performers' offensive skills is gone a little too far. Yet, maybe it's intended so performers utilise more of their support skills

Maybe if they allowed Group A buffs to stack with one another instead of overwriting each other, and if wanderers had more than barely just a few support skills that were worth it. I wouldn't mind pure supporting. That's actually why I made my wanderer in the first place. But with the usual party setup I run with, and lack of decent support skills, I'm forced to be main AoE dps with supporting on the side.

With the way the current system works, even if you had a wanderer and a maestro in the same party, outside of their original songs/dances and choruses, you only get (less than) half of what each class has to offer. I fail to see how allowing Swing Dance, Windmill Rush, Lover Symphony, Moonlight Serenade, and Echo Song to all stack would even come close to unbalanced. Lover Symphony and Echo Song, and maybe Moonlight Serenade, are already skills people just throw 1 point into as a prerequisite.

Choruses need a massive overhaul as well. Maybe not the whole; solo use with half their normal effect(s) deal, but how unbalancing would it be to allow choruses their "full effect" from just having 2 performers? By full effect, I mean things like Dances with Wargs giving -50% fixed cast reduction, with each additional performer granting an extra -5%, up to a total -75% reduction. Maybe not that, but something that could make bringing that many performers more appealing than it currently is. If I didn't screw up somewhere, doesn't it also take somewhere around 6 performers to reach -50% fixed cast? Why would any sane party bring that many performers when you could take an extra AB or two, and more dps? Why is Infinite Humming the final tier chorus skill when it should be a 1st tier? Why do crappy choruses like Lerad's Dew and Song of Mana even exist? Why did kRO believe that many people would want to play either performer class, and why any party would want that many performers around, especially after their -_-ty "balance" patch?

[olbaid]

Ranger AS wouldn't be the godly aoe PVM skill without the WW set. At this point, I think the best that performers can hope for from kRO is a new set of mora-style gear that modifies their skill damage/cooldowns. Not allowing wanderer buffs to stack with maestro ones is somewhat silly since bard/dancer song and dance stacks.

[Kadelia]

What they should do is drastically reduce the amount of stat points a character can have, while giving base stats beyond 100 incredible bonuses. By doing this, you're technically forced to decide between a balanced character with spread out stats vs. a specialized character with stats focused in certain areas.


Pre-RE, you had to sacrifice something in order to get good stun resistance, decent aspd, or a fast cast time. Post-RE, you can easily spread stats around without much sacrifice. Imo, this is the biggest flaw in renewal.

I agree with this latter comment. Stun resistance should be scaled against some stat of the Wanderer's really. Like Wanderer's INT+LV vs Target's VIT+LV. i.e. if the wanderer has 120 INT, then the target needs 120 VIT for immunity; that way you can stack godlies like a Sleipnir on the wanderer to virtually guarantee some chance to stun the enemy, (finally, a reason to put godlies ona wanderer! ) and this scales infinitely with any expansions to the level cap or new gear that adds VIT or INT without braking current game balance which has a ceiling for when you get immunity.

Oda/Heim feel free to forward my suggestions to kRO ^.~

Similarly freeze should be Maestro's INT+LV versus enemy's INT+LV that way maestro also have a reason to shoot for 120 INT, and other players may want to shoot for 120 INT to get freeze immunity, and if they cripple their build for this immunity, they suffer elsewhere due to the cost of 120 in a stat.

Also this new stat vs stat system guarantees MVPs and some monsters can penetrate your stun/freeze resistance easily with high INT.

Edited by Jaye, 21 March 2012 - 06:59 AM.

[Joaco]

What about suras?

[asayuu]

Maybe if they allowed Group A buffs to stack with one another instead of overwriting each other, and if wanderers had more than barely just a few support skills that were worth it. I wouldn't mind pure supporting. That's actually why I made my wanderer in the first place. But with the usual party setup I run with, and lack of decent support skills, I'm forced to be main AoE dps with supporting on the side.

With the way the current system works, even if you had a wanderer and a maestro in the same party, outside of their original songs/dances and choruses, you only get (less than) half of what each class has to offer. I fail to see how allowing Swing Dance, Windmill Rush, Lover Symphony, Moonlight Serenade, and Echo Song to all stack would even come close to unbalanced. Lover Symphony and Echo Song, and maybe Moonlight Serenade, are already skills people just throw 1 point into as a prerequisite.

Choruses need a massive overhaul as well. Maybe not the whole; solo use with half their normal effect(s) deal, but how unbalancing would it be to allow choruses their "full effect" from just having 2 performers? By full effect, I mean things like Dances with Wargs giving -50% fixed cast reduction, with each additional performer granting an extra -5%, up to a total -75% reduction. Maybe not that, but something that could make bringing that many performers more appealing than it currently is. If I didn't screw up somewhere, doesn't it also take somewhere around 6 performers to reach -50% fixed cast? Why would any sane party bring that many performers when you could take an extra AB or two, and more dps? Why is Infinite Humming the final tier chorus skill when it should be a 1st tier? Why do crappy choruses like Lerad's Dew and Song of Mana even exist? Why did kRO believe that many people would want to play either performer class, and why any party would want that many performers around, especially after their -_-ty "balance" patch?

They should create a "Group C", with the "shared solos" [Siren, Deep Sleep, Gloomy, Circle of Nature, Despair], and those ones being the only overlapping group. Group A and B should stack. What would be of an Archbishop or other priest class if they could only choose one between Bless, Agi, Angelus, Kyrie, Impostio or Sacra?

Infinite, Lerad and Mana should be changed to solos, because getting 2+ people for those fail effects is... stupid.

Yes, and get 7 performers to buff... 5 other people. This is unpractical in PVM unless all of them have Great Echo and they can oneshot the mobs better than Arrow Storm. So personally, a overhaul in chrous and ensemble should be done, in PVM and PVP/WOE settings, to buff "all allies in range", instead of "only party". Then people can start filling a party with performers like they do with Banding on kRO, and the performers can buff their whole guild

Also, choruses have so damn high cooldowns. 3 minutes for a less effective howling-clone [Song of Sinking], or a less effective Diamond Dust [SNF], or a less effective Venom Bleed [Warcry of Beyond]... The 90 seconds for the buffs is a little more acceptable, but still. Too high.

And until they make a mora set for Great Echo, there is no damn reason for the cooldown be 10 seconds.

[ForTheCity]

Don't remember the last time I launched this game. Must be at least 3-4 weeks ago. What have I been missing out on?

[meli]

I find the suicidal destruction cast time too fast for a skill that can kill everyone for certain in a wide area. In a cluster of people plus lag you hardy have time to react to it, looks like an aoe gfist (except deadlier) with a lower cast time. Yes, it has a cooldown, but how does that matter if you can have 10 mechanics ready to blow up continuously?

Also, no skill should be able to bypass reductions neither partially or fully.

[NeoNilox]

I still can't believe that Spell Fist had been nerfed post-patch! What did SF have that flagged it as "it's overpowered, nerf it!!"? Not to mention the 2h staff ASPD with sorc.

[Wanderer]

Maestros got nerfed, and GX's/Rangers got buffed as hell. Well i think they should totally decrease the damage of arrow storm, and give back the old severe rainstorm damage, with the GX's well those are kind of balanced, quiting the fact they should remove some damage to rolling cutter.

The problem isn't rolling cutter but the uber upgraded kvm katars and kvm weapons in general...

[Aero]

I find the suicidal destruction cast time too fast for a skill that can kill everyone for certain in a wide area. In a cluster of people plus lag you hardy have time to react to it, looks like an aoe gfist (except deadlier) with a lower cast time. Yes, it has a cooldown, but how does that matter if you can have 10 mechanics ready to blow up continuously?

Also, no skill should be able to bypass reductions neither partially or fully.

^

Yeah, it's pretty sad to see wanderer players moving onto maestros or other classes; due to balance patch. Especially when they have mained gypsy/dancer for God knows how long x.x I used to miss frost joke in woe. Balance patch revived it, but I miss dazzler now!

I main sura, and imo cc should get nerf haha.

[Wanderer]

SD is funny because you can recall a guild once every 5 minutes and also wipe them every 5 minutes, the thing is you only have one person who can recall your guild while on the other hand you can have multiple mechanics for multiple wipe attempts