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Experience levels in renewal concerns me.


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#1 porty

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:33 PM

I have spent a good hour reading the fantastic renewal post giving facts and figures, formulas and statistics. it all looks reasonably straight forward except for the experience levels hunting monsters higher or lower than yourself.

i understand that if you hunt under your level, the exp% decreases and if you hunt over 10 levels above, your exp % decreases, with a 40% bonus if you kill exactly 10 levels above yours.

presently i am hunting snowiers and the odd ice titan at level 85 lord knight, giving roughly 5800 b exp and 13800 b exp respectively.

in the renewal way of levelling am i to understand that ice titan, at level 110 is now too high to hunt effectively (considering just 40% awarded exp) and that a roween, at level 95 with just 1691 b exp (+ 40% higher level bonus) will become my new prey?

so at lvl 85 lord knight i need to kill 1086 ice titan or 2585 snowiers at present.

under renewal i now need to kill 6334 roweens.(which includes the 40% bonus exp)to get next level.

is the experience needed to get next level dropping dramatically because if not i believe that renewal will become very boring very quickly if there is a choice of just 4 or 5 prey monsters in your +40% exp bonus range.

to be quite honest, the prospect of endless levelling on monsters i don't want to hunt really isn't filling me full of anxiety and joy. this now means my favourite dungeon, the ice dungeon ID3 is effectively out of my gameplan until i am mid third class.

i dont want a game where someone drops a 99 character in your lap purely for signing in but at the same time freedom to choose your favourite dungeons and prey monsters has all but gone (without exp penalties anyway) and it seems you now have to kill 6x as many monsters as before. i don't see how restricting freedom of choice without penalty and making you kill up to 6x as many monsters (you weren't even interested in anyway) can be a step forward......
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#2 ShrimpGirl

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:57 PM

Yes, the exp you need to level will be far lower than it is now. You can take a look here: http://rode-r.doddle...om/viewpage/d/1
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#3 porty

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:07 PM

ahh, the missing piece to the jigsaw... thanks for the link..

having looked at the chart i still feel the experience curve is very 'regulated' and quite restrictive. i still wonder if we are going to have to continue with the never ending grind like we have always had to do in the past.

feedback on the forum hints at that being a reality but i shall reserve judgement though until i have tried it for myself.
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#4 Taper

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:19 PM

I don't know if it's implemented as part of iRO's renewal, but I'm sure that in jRO and kRO the level restriction have been modified to something along the lines of 20-30 level difference now as opposed to 10-level difference.
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#5 Soukosa

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:58 PM

jRO doesn't have any level penalties but at the same time they also have custom exp tables that continues on with the current one.
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#6 joanne

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 09:45 PM

jro allso uses the old matk formula too right
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#7 Hrothmund

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 06:23 AM

A quick comparison for fun. with the recent ice titan event it took 2470 ice titans (if your going solo) to go from 98 to 99 trans. On renewal test server it takes 2200 ice titans to go from 98 to 99 trans.

Granted it'll be faster on premium servers, but the gap between leveling in renewal and pre-renewal isnt as huge as everyone keeps hyping it up.

Bio3, Thors, Dragonlabs are probably 3-4x faster leveling even at high trans levels than what renewal is, and thats only to 99. The real grind in renewal hasnt even begun at 99.
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#8 Prodigy

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:21 AM

Renewal leveling is "faster" if you level it the old fashioned way - aka no events (Dragonlabs, Titans, etc. Regular 2x exp events and such are okay), no power-leveling, no power-leeching. Now, if you were one of those people who were used to any of the methods above, then Renewal leveling will seem more of a grind.
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#9 Wanderer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:31 AM

Renewal leveling is "faster" if you level it the old fashioned way - aka no events (Dragonlabs, Titans, etc. Regular 2x exp events and such are okay), no power-leveling, no power-leeching. Now, if you were one of those people who were used to any of the methods above, then Renewal leveling will seem more of a grind.


iRO just got so used to have exp events every week, easier thor volcano, rep exp quests, titans, troy, dragons and other stuff that made people so lazy that they don't even rembember what true grinding is :(
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#10 Doddler

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:58 AM

Bio3, Thors, Dragonlabs are probably 3-4x faster leveling even at high trans levels than what renewal is, and thats only to 99. The real grind in renewal hasnt even begun at 99.


I'm not really sure you can compare iRO events designed to get players to 99 absurdly fast to baseline renewal. Additionally, my math tells me you should only need 1223 titans in renewal to go from 98->99.
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#11 Kadelia

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:44 AM

"Only" 1223 ice titans? That is quite slow still. We're talking several (3-4) hours. And only if you're extremely fast at killing them. Bio3 was legit and not really any slower than this and ooooodles more fun. In fact, 10 ice titans to get 0.1%? Anubis is better than that pre-renewal :( This doesn't sound significantly faster, only similar/different and with a lower entry level in terms of skill :/
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#12 Doddler

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 09:08 AM

"Only" 1223 ice titans? That is quite slow still. We're talking several (3-4) hours. And only if you're extremely fast at killing them. Bio3 was legit and not really any slower than this and ooooodles more fun. In fact, 10 ice titans to get 0.1%? Anubis is better than that pre-renewal :( This doesn't sound significantly faster, only similar/different and with a lower entry level in terms of skill :/


Comparing ice titans post renewal to the fastest form of leveling in game pre-renewal isn't really a fair comparison to make. Here's a more interesting comparison for you.

Titans to go 98 -> 99 Post Renewal: 1223
Titans to go 98 -> 99 Trans Post Renewal: 2080

Titans to go 98 -> 99 Pre Renewal: 7208
Titans to go 98 -> 99 Trans Pre Renewal: 24741

You say renewal is slow, but the numbers show a substantial improvement here. Lets not ignore the fact that titans are both easier to kill for most jobs post renewal, and that they are easier to find (titans are no longer timed spawn post renewal).

Even if you want to run with your own comparison, you require to kill 3430 bio3 monsters (with no share) to go 98->99 trans, close to twice as many ice titans post-renewal. It's for this reason that I can't truly understand why people are complaining that it's too slow.

Edited by Doddler, 13 September 2010 - 09:15 AM.

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#13 Ghost007

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 09:52 AM

Lets not forget that the test server is currently 1/1 rates, both Ygg and Ymir might have 1.5/1.5 rates, the grind is not that bad, I rather have some grinding then an instant lvl 150 trans 3rd class. The 2k ice titans with 150% rate and normal manual becomes 1k basically, add in a 2x exp event and thats 500 titans, which is 1-2 hours? Lets also think about how powerful you really are as a lvl 150, drop rates need to be fixed, exp rates are fine.
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#14 Hrishi

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 09:54 AM

^ Add in battle manuals/HE/thick w/e for people who will use them and it's really no time at all.
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#15 Haldor

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:02 AM

I can't truly understand why people are complaining that it's too slow.

Probably because you still have 51 levels to go after you get 99.

Edited by Haldor, 13 September 2010 - 10:03 AM.

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#16 Wanderer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:06 AM

Jesus christ you are not supposed to be lv150 in a week, quit complaining and enjoy the game we are all going to get 150 anyways, no need to rush. :(
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#17 Kadelia

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:07 AM

Probably because you still have 51 levels to go after you get 99.

^
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#18 Ghost007

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 11:24 AM

I'm thinking with renewal a new player with no gear, no help to start, that only spends an average of 1-2 hours a day on the game can have a lvl 150 in about 4-6 months.

The average iRO player with moderate gears would probably get a lvl 1 character to 150 in 2-3 months.

The insane grinder with great gears would get 1-150 in a month or less.

Sounds about right for an mmorpg.
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#19 Ruina

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 01:21 PM

I'm of the opinion that the Renewal exp rates are fine as it is too. What I'm more concerned about is that current players on Ymir and Valk will still consider this "improvement" too slow (as several people have felt already) because we're all too used to having EXP events every other week and having insanely fast turn in quests over the last few months. Anything is going to feel like a grind after going through months of power leveling like that, so the "improvement" will go unnoticed. :( As for new players who never had a taste of these power leveling quests, I'm concerned that they may interpret the "improved EXP rates" to some of the outrageous pserver rates out there, but hopefully this won't be as big of an issue...
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#20 Pepperoncini

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 01:43 PM

I don't think we can really give a final judgment on the exp rates yet. Though I do think things are going to be improved, it will take a while to figure out which maps/mobs and which gear/stat/skill builds will be go against them. For example, just goofing around with generic gear seems to give an increase in EXP. So I suspect the exp will be even better once you are a spear knight piercing large sized mobs, or a wizardd mobbing a bunch of +10 lvl mobs etc... Right now, Henry just sends you to fight random monsters, so its impossible to gauge any kind of performance using him. Nor can we really go off and do our own thing because there is no fast way to make zenny on YGG to try out appropriate gear.

If they add in a zenny/leveler npc, I would be more than happy to spend hours testing various builds, report bugs, and compile the information on the forums for people who don't have premium accounts to test for themselves. Many people would. But there's no way in hell im going to grind zenny on the test server.
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#21 Naida

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 03:05 PM

I'm thinking with renewal a new player with no gear, no help to start, that only spends an average of 1-2 hours a day on the game can have a lvl 150 in about 4-6 months.

The average iRO player with moderate gears would probably get a lvl 1 character to 150 in 2-3 months.

The insane grinder with great gears would get 1-150 in a month or less.

Sounds about right for an mmorpg.



If you love to grind 80% of the time of playing and you like pvp, then I suppose this game is for you (obviously there are alternatives for leveling, making it less of a grind, but not everyone has the privilege of them). I play because I've played for a long while and have friends that play, and leaving RO to play another means starting over from scratch. You're right, that does sound about right for an mmorpg, which is why I am sticking with this MMO. Is that enough to make it a good game? In my opinion, no.

I don't play this game because it is the game for me. I play it because I don't have interest in most others and I have nothing else fun to do while trying to get my life back together. I think people settle for the most decent pile of crap. MMOs make money by taking advantage of youth who have no better means of acquiring happiness or contentment with the time they put into the game, which can vary from the occasional 5 hours a week to 10 hours a day on average. Keep in mind, I am not insulting anyone. I don't blame anyone for however they spend their time. Whether you choose to sit at the computer and play RO or not, I am saying that everyone copes but that perhaps not everyone is speaking up because of that.

Either the GMs don't listen to the player base as a whole, the majority is greatly misrepresented or ...I am of a minority of the players that thinks that achieving max level/character potential (150 trans 3rd) should not take more than 2 months for the casual player because we shouldn't have to work to have fun (and I am assuming that people do not find it fun to grind for 2-3 months). There are plenty of things that make this game fun, but it is the not-very-fun grind that is required to reach that. We already have to work before play in the real world. But if tomorrow the game goes down in flames, how will we be rewarded for the hours and $ spent on the amount of work required to have said 'fun'??

All the things I get out of this game, besides the virtual interaction I can have with people I cannot interact with in person because of distance, I can get elsewhere. I guess I'm still holding onto the hope that there is a much bigger % of the community, than what seems apparent, that feels the same way that I do and that eventually the game will become more fun for me. I'm still playing (casually), but I'm getting tired of the waiting. This may not be the best place to spill this out, but I've kept it to myself for a while, so none of this is necessarily aimed at any one person.

If the majority wants a grind, let them have it. I'm still not convinced that this is the case. I think that many people are just giving up due to no direct control over their circumstances, leaving them with the decision to just deal with it. Nonetheless, I will give Grav another chance with the implementation of renewal on Ymir.

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tl;dr I think the community is misrepresented with so many people in the generations playing this game (x and Y) are just "dealing" with the status quo and the lack of control over it/affect on it and their circumstances, which allows gravity to take advantage of our uses for this game (see: $ exclusive cute headgears, pvp motivated gear/items and other limited time "offers").

Edited by Naida, 13 September 2010 - 03:07 PM.

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#22 porty

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 04:24 PM

i think gravity are walking a tightrope more now than ever with this renewal, very much a make or break scenario.

make it too difficult to level and people will be gone. but there again you dont want a 150 level character gifted in your lap either.

personally i don't think the majority of people want to go back to the old days of grinding your life away and i hope gravity understand that now, before Renewal and not 6 months after it.

i believe there is a lot of life left in this game, even the possibilty of the population growing again... who knows? only the correct formula and levelling balance will decide that.
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#23 Pepperoncini

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 05:50 PM

i think gravity are walking a tightrope more now than ever with this renewal, very much a make or break scenario.

make it too difficult to level and people will be gone. but there again you dont want a 150 level character gifted in your lap either.

personally i don't think the majority of people want to go back to the old days of grinding your life away and i hope gravity understand that now, before Renewal and not 6 months after it.

i believe there is a lot of life left in this game, even the possibilty of the population growing again... who knows? only the correct formula and levelling balance will decide that.


I've seen a lot of stuff that I don't like about renewal through testing, but there's also a lot of really good stuff too. It's cliche already, but renewal is give and take. It's just change in general that people hate. I honestly think all of the complaining and griping about new mechanics is going to hurt the game and community more than any negative change that comes along with renewal. Even with the drop penalty, its not game breaking. If you end up getting roughly half the low level loot that you used to, that sucks, but is it really worth quitting over? Getting 86 cobwebs instead of 172? A job change quest ( that you only have to do once) taking 46 instead of 23 minutes? It sucks I know, but it will not break the game. I think cards is going to be the deciding factor here, we will have to see how the drop penalty really affects the market. I've found 3 goat cards in 20 minutes on 1x rates, and I've hunted Isilla for 12 hours on 2x rates and not found a single card there. The 0.01, or 0.02% chance is so low, that it comes down to stupid luck anyways. I bet the biggest change in card prices/availability is just going to be people over compensating.

Most players who think their class/build is getting nerfed are getting butthurt and taking it personally. As if insta-cast double bolting scholars and insta-cast LOV/SG high wizards were somehow balanced and not in need of a tone-down. I'm not disappointed that EDP is going to be more expensive and give less bonus now either, not after seeing 75k sonic blows and 10k+ grimtooths. Not that I'm immune from changes. My old method of playing my sniper is going to be much less viable after renewal.

I think renewal really has the potential to bring in a wave of new players. I personally know at least 3 people are are coming back for renewal. Most of the big negatives that are coming with renewal seem like things that can really easily be customized by iRO team. Hopefully we can channel some of our rage into trying to convince the team to fine tune some of the big changes with renewal.
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#24 Hrothmund

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 06:01 PM

I'm not really sure you can compare iRO events designed to get players to 99 absurdly fast to baseline renewal. Additionally, my math tells me you should only need 1223 titans in renewal to go from 98->99.


True its not a fair comparison, but its what we're used to for leveling over the last 6-12 months as they're encouraging everyone to get 99 for renewal. IDK what sort of events they might have after it launches, but i dont think we'll have anything like titans/dragons for a while until things settle down.

As for titans in renewal, I made the assumption trans 98-99 was ~8mil exp, and went and killed some titans which gave me 3500 exp at that level. I might have got the exp tnl wrong perhaps. It was a good test though because previously I thought i'd be killing lava golems from 99 to 110 or so :(

*edit*
oh right the "current" one was with prem and manual, renewal was without either. Still, its mainly for people who are opting not to level now but do so in renewal to get it done faster.

Edited by Hrothmund, 13 September 2010 - 06:04 PM.

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#25 porty

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:24 PM

the only other trouble with ice titans is that at level 98, and ice titans at 110 you are outside the +10 level limit and would get only 40% of the titans true worth... well thats my understanding anyway...
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