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Renewal problems and concerns


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#1 SethTheSecond

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:09 PM

After testing renewal for a few days, i've run into some problems that can be a factor for driving people away from RO.

1.The grind

I know that RO has been known for the long grind,but after playing over 7 years of this game, to be frank,i've gotten quite tired of it. In renewal, the exp gain for lower levels are fine(i leveled normally for levels 1-30,and it was at a relativly good pace). However, after going through helpful henry, and then going back to killing monsters regularly, it felt exceedingly slow. (yes i know that's a shortcut..but you know what? bite me.) Now,i understand that not everyone is supposed to get 150/50 in a single day and what not, but as it stands now, at a 1x/1x rate, it takes like 2-5 (maybe more) monsters CLOSE TO,OR WITHIN YOUR LEVEL RANGE to get 0.1%. (i tested it on raydrics on a level 115 sura. This is almost as bad as 98 trans, if not worse. Not everyone has the time to spend 3 days to get a single level.
You could argue that 3rd classes are stronger and can kill hordes of these monsters with relative ease. True, 3rd classes are stronger than the current trans (in terms of being able to dish out damage vs monster hp ratio and how fast you can kill them), but to be honest, it really isn't that much different. (about 115% compared to current trans's powers) If you compare it to how hard it is to level now (i say it's anywhere between 200-300% harder than the current high 90s),many people would simply quit in fury at the prospect of spending HOURS just to get a single level.
It's almost like, exp given from monsters are LINEAR, exp required to level is a STEEP CURVE. The exp rates should be closely matched.

2.Drop rates
RAGERAGERAGERAGERAEGRAGE

Theres this whole thing going on that if you're much higher level than a monster, you get a PENALTY to the drop rate. This is NOT a good idea for RO, especially the need for hunting supplies to get items to use skills, or for hunting better equipments and gears.
Hell,If anything, there should be a drop BONUS that gets removed as the monster's level range reaches a huge difference. Either remove this drop penalty, or modify it to be unnoticeable.

3.Translation errors
Please fix these up to the best of your extent before releasing yggdrasil from it's "Test server" status. I don't think anyone who is well versed in the english language would appreciate trying to understand butchered english.
How like you if s~peakings from words mouth come out was like this? Appreciate poorly, you would, if green creature i talk like from wars in the stars i did. *HIC*(Note: i purposely butchered that line to give you an example of what i was experiencing when i was reading some of the dialogue.)

(P.S: please increase the exp rates for now so we can test the 3rd classes properly, helpful henry stopped being helpful at level 115. Being limited to 15 skill points is not enough to test out if all the skills have been implemented properly. A small zeny npc would be helpful too. Oh, and i think you guys also forgot about npc that sells headgears,i dislike being limited to no hats, the Eden hat, or whatever you can pick up from the monsters you kill, which in my case, is a ribbon.)

I can understand why you guys are a bit hesistant to make yggdrasil into a full fledged "Test server" (like 50x exp/drops, zeny npc that gives you 100 mil, ect.), because if everyone reached the end game so quickly, they wouldn't be able to test the beginning or the in-between,right? or the possibility of a community developing like old sakray, when you're going to wipe the server,right? Thats fine and all, but heres the problem. How are we supposed to reach the in-between if even getting past the BEGINNING to get to the mid game was mind boggling difficult? Instead, how about a in-between solution? make the rates like 20x/20x, give a zeny npc that gives you a decent amount of zeny in intervals for when you reach certain levels (like maybe 50k at level 10, 1 mil at level 20, 5 mil at level 30 ? that way people won't just create a new char and go like - whee i can now buy unlimited pots and go crazy and skip to end game testing wheeeeee). Since you're going to wipe the server anyways,that shouldn't be a problem, because if you want us testers to test things, you have to give us the ability to be able to reach the materials TO be TESTED in the first place. How can testers find out whats wrong if they can't even access the ability to figure out whats wrong?

Edited by SethTheSecond, 12 September 2010 - 04:20 PM.

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#2 porty

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:56 PM

1. experience. your post confirms what i fear most. a possibility of going back to the dark days of endless grind... i had pinned my hopes on a chance to get away from this, as paying to be bored certainly isn't on my agenda. the endless grind this game requires to level is almost certainly the #1 cause of people quitting. i hope and pray this will not be the case.

2. drops. i agree here too, a drop penalty is most definately wrong. it should be a drop bonus if in range subsequently removed when you get outside the 'bonus' range.

3. interpretation. frustrating yes, but hopefully over the course of future patches it will all be put right. as long as it can be understood it will serve its purpose, for now.
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#3 Pepperoncini

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:08 PM

If you fight monsters 10 levels above you, you will be getting up to twice as much experience before the +10 level bonus. That's going to bring your 2-5 mobs per 0.1% to 1-2 mobs per 0.1% which is not bad for 98 non-trans, let alone trans. Not that we are even talking about 98 trans anyways, we are talking about 115 3rd class. Slap a battle manual on, and you will be getting 1% exp per 10 mobs are so, that is fast. I'm not sure how you gather leveling a 115 character is 3x harder than a high 90 character.

The drop penalty does look grim as of right now though, I can't argue with that.

But like porty said, we have already heard interest from Heim on making our version of renewal customizable to us, so we will very likely get some tweaks here and there to streamline things.

Edited by Pepperoncini, 12 September 2010 - 05:11 PM.

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#4 DrAzzy

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:26 PM

The drop penalty is a horrible horrible idea. I was under the impression that it had been removed on some other RO's....

Grinding for zeny on weak monsters is a whole aspect of the game that would be obliterated by this change. We all know in RO you don't make money unless you try to (and i don't see renewal changing that). If you can't make money by hunting things of your level (due to supply use, which seems to be the case), and you can't make money by hunting easy stuff (because of drop nerf), how exactly is someone unable to kill MVPs supposed to make zeny?

Come on. MOST PEOPLE EVEN HAVE CHARS DEDICATED TO ITEM HUNTING!

And this change pretty much removes item hunting from the game. I don't know what they were thinking...

Edited by DrAzzy, 12 September 2010 - 05:27 PM.

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#5 joanne

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:42 PM

The drop rate has gotta go but the lvling i have no problems with and besides we do often get exp increase events and HE battle manuals hell even might get kill count quests still no diff as before they just have to be stricter on the lvls that do it liek say ice titans if they do that again do so in between the lvl ranges
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#6 porty

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:46 PM

Can't agree more Azzy, i make my zeny getting blue herbs and bottles off goats.. i have a noob lvl 71 sinX made for the job.....

probably the most stupid part of the incoming update.

the iRO market will grind to a halt if this part of the game gets implemented. lower end items, like blue herbs and empty bottles will cease to exist... imagine EDPs 5 million zeny each!!!!!
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#7 Pepperoncini

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 05:53 PM

Can't agree more Azzy, i make my zeny getting blue herbs and bottles off goats.. i have a noob lvl 71 sinX made for the job.....

probably the most stupid part of the incoming update.

the iRO market will grind to a halt if this part of the game gets implemented. lower end items, like blue herbs and empty bottles will cease to exist... imagine EDPs 5 million zeny each!!!!!


I agree that the drop penalty sucks, and needs to be toned down. But in your example, won't you still be able to make money off of those items? You will find less obviously, but you will be able to sell them for more. Like you said, EDPs 5 million each. That sucks for the people buying them, not the ones selling the materials.
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#8 porty

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:12 PM

true, but its having the extra time caused by the drop penalty to hunt the items though...
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#9 Doddler

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:25 PM

Grinding for zeny on weak monsters is a whole aspect of the game that would be obliterated by this change.

.

Based on what they're doing, it's an aspect they wish to remove. They don't want high level players on low level maps. I'm not agreeing with it, but that's what they clearly are aiming for.
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#10 Soukosa

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:52 PM

They definitely made lots of progress on that Doddler by having the 3rd job change quests have you get drops off of low level monsters! There's no point in keeping people from hunting items on lower level monsters in this game and they certainly aren't trying very hard to remove the need to do so for the various quests in this game.
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#11 Sera

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:56 PM

If they want to keep high level players off low level maps, they need to remove the need for them to be there.
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#12 Doddler

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:57 PM

Hey I don't care for the drop penalty myself, but if it's got to be like that, I'd prefer it were a more broad range like it is on kRO. :/
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#13 Brindizer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 05:30 AM

Have they scaled the item values from loot? I should be able to overcharge the crap I find at 130 for a lot more than the level 40 guy should.
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#14 TShido

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:25 AM

I am more than disappointed. I have a 99/70 gypsy on Ymir and I was wanting to try out the new class, not sit here trying to re-level my gypsy I already have! Helpful Henry is a nice thought but I am more interested in trying out the NEW class, not starting from scratch with little to no zeny to buy the better equips and pots for that matter. Can we just get a quicker way to level?
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#15 Prodigy

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:56 AM

1) Let me just quote myself

Renewal leveling is "faster" if you level it the old fashioned way - aka no events (Dragonlabs, Titans, Turtles, etc.), no power-leveling, no power-leeching, no power-leveling via medals, no power-leveling via item turn ins. Now, if you were one of those people who were used to any of the methods above, then Renewal leveling will seem more of a grind.


Of course I'm one of those people who loved res-bombing Anubis as a 1st class and did some Kasa leeching starting at lvl 7x, so it's only natural that this time around feels more of a grind. But before all that jazz, I remember when it took me 9~10 monsters at level 94 non-trans to get 0.1%. I haven't thoroughly tested this new leveling curve yet, but I'd assume that Renewal will feel faster for people who are used to more traditional leveling because let's face it: in preRenewal, bio3 exp was absurdly higher than most other leveling methods, which is why we got spoiled with getting 0.1% at 98 trans with just 3~5 monster kills in a party.

tl;dr version
Renewal will feel more of a grind to us more established players who already know the optimum methods of leveling because Renewal destroys pretty much all of that.

Edited by Prodigy, 13 September 2010 - 07:58 AM.

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#16 Wanderer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:13 AM

I remember then trans classes got introduced there was no such fancy places to power level, then the updates brought all kind of stuff to speed up leveling, it will be just like that, I'm surprised that old and established players don't remember how everything goes after major updates =P
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#17 Doddler

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:50 AM

I also think gaining levels is still too slow and that there will be an uproar if the exp tables are implemented on the main servers in their current state.


I hardly think so. The experience chart is fine. Just because you haven't figured out how to efficiently level after renewal does not mean it's incredibly slow. When Yggdrasil opens as an official server, I fully expect to see trans characters within the first two weeks, and level 150 characters before two months. I wouldn't really consider that too slow.
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#18 Kadelia

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 09:15 AM

I remember then trans classes got introduced there was no such fancy places to power level, then the updates brought all kind of stuff to speed up leveling, it will be just like that, I'm surprised that old and established players don't remember how everything goes after major updates =P

Well, bio3 came out within 6 months of the trans patch. Before then, people did guild dungeons.
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#19 Axylus

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 09:16 AM

I hardly think so. The experience chart is fine. Just because you haven't figured out how to efficiently level after renewal does not mean it's incredibly slow. When Yggdrasil opens as an official server, I fully expect to see trans characters within the first two weeks, and level 150 characters before two months. I wouldn't really consider that too slow.


Gah. I've just deleted my post that you quoted because I wanted to rewrite it and post it in a more appropriate thread.

The main issue I have is with lower-range levelling — I found it to be slow and tedious.

I think creating and developing a new character should be an exciting beginning, not just the beginning of an inevitable climb. New characters also need a boost to help them start, and although this is what the Eden Group is designed to facilitate, not everyone likes to be forced to do quests. New players may also become bored if their characters level slowly in the beginning.

Edited by richard, 26 March 2012 - 03:23 AM.

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#20 Wanderer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:16 AM

I think you just got used to power level your 1st classes with item turn-in and now you see anything else as slow, you can't expect renewal to be the playground that iRO was with REQ with item turn in.
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#21 Axylus

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:39 AM

I think you just got used to power level your 1st classes with item turn-in and now you see anything else as slow, you can't expect renewal to be the playground that iRO was with REQ with item turn in.


All that's important is that the game is both fun and balanced. Are you suggesting that grinding at low levels is fun and levelling quickly at low levels is unbalanced?
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#22 Wanderer

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 10:51 AM

It's not a matter of balance, if you are new you need some time to get used to your class, know your skills and stats. When newbies power level their chars even at the very low levels (like bill of birds from 10~31) they are gaining speed in their rush to be 99 but they are loosing some hours of learning of to play and build their char and end up not even knowing things like the situational use of each skill they have. Of course this could be boring for some veterans but it's better that way imo and they can share their knowledge with the newbies by partying with characters that are of the same level rather than just power leveling, when item turn-in came up low level partying almost died specially on premium.
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#23 Sera

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 01:40 PM

Rather than forcing low level parties, which are unnecessary in renewal because low level monsters can be so easily OHKO'd, it will simply discourage higher level players from making low level characters just for fun alts imo.

Pre renewal, it took you like five hits to kill a Spore, but that spore gave you an entire level.
Post renewal, you OHKO all the monsters, but they only give you 1%. I fail to see how this is better.

I personally found partying to be pointless up until like level 50 just because the monsters die so quickly.
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#24 TShido

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 08:15 AM

I hardly think so. The experience chart is fine. Just because you haven't figured out how to efficiently level after renewal does not mean it's incredibly slow. When Yggdrasil opens as an official server, I fully expect to see trans characters within the first two weeks, and level 150 characters before two months. I wouldn't really consider that too slow.


I disagree, for this being a test server and ultimately for testing the new interface and third class I am a little upset. I feel like we should have the option to test the third class alone if that's what we so choose. I've already 99/70 'ed my gypsy on Chaos/ Ymir and there is no need to do it again... I already know how to level a dancer and a gypsy I want to play a wanderer!
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#25 Doddler

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 09:07 AM

I disagree, for this being a test server and ultimately for testing the new interface and third class I am a little upset. I feel like we should have the option to test the third class alone if that's what we so choose. I've already 99/70 'ed my gypsy on Chaos/ Ymir and there is no need to do it again... I already know how to level a dancer and a gypsy I want to play a wanderer!


I completely don't understand what you are talking about and how this is related to my post that you quoted.
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