76 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

Don't edit my posts in that fashion. If iron plushy wants to act like a moronic twit he/she deserves to get burned back. Don't touch mine without editing out his/her idiotic comments as well or else you're reducing my ability to defend myself. Playing favorites like that makes you a horribad mod.

[zr0rieu]

You can make a counter argument without having to resort to foul language. Also, having a different opinion than you does not make someone any less of a person than you are. Keep the discussion civil or the thread is going away.

[Kadelia]

Perhaps you didn't read IronPlushy's post. I formally request you not be a hypocrite.

[zr0rieu]

I did read his or her post and it was far more restrained than what you've posted previously. If you disagree with the way this was handled, take it up in PM with Oda and/or myself, not here.

[Kadelia]

OK so s/he's allowed to call me a liar with my head up my ass that posted retarded flawed things

Even though I am 100% right, far more experienced, and laid out my arguments in a much more constructive manner, but when I respond in kind to what iron said, you edit my post but not theirs? Yes, you are a hypocrite. Please edit their post, revert mine, or close the thread. Please. I shouldn't have to ask you (or your supervisor) do do your job correctly and unbiased.

Edited by Jaye, 05 April 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[Oda]

OK so s/he's allowed to call me a liar with my head up my ass that posted retarded flawed things

Even though I am 100% right, far more experienced, and laid out my arguments in a much more constructive manner, but when I respond in kind to what iron said, you edit my post but not theirs? Yes, you are a hypocrite. Please edit their post, revert mine, or close the thread. Please. I shouldn't have to ask you (or your supervisor) do do your job correctly and unbiased.

Then you can be the bigger person and not let somebody disagreeing with you kill the thread. Eye for an eye posting makes it hard to read. You are both derailing the thread.

[holatuwol]

3. Let me guess you used BMX3, medals, have VIP, and used a merc? I dumped my monk because she missed constantly, even with 40+ DEX, these new buffed mobs have skewed leveling for normal people.

Well, to give vague credit to your argument, when I came back to RO a few weeks ago, I made a monk because I wanted to try snap and ran into the DEX problem as an acolyte/monk. In response to that, I bumped DEX up first and ultimately DEX tied for being my highest stat when I transcended (AGI was the stat it tied with).

That being said, at the same time I didn't have as much need for STR because of overpowered Eden weapons that I got starting at level 26 (and the novice mace worked just fine up until then). Once I had 40 DEX at level 20-ish, I got maybe 20 STR (finished with pecos) and didn't touch either stat again until level 60 because I was hunting monsters around my level rather than shooting for 10-15 higher than me right off. Once I finally had mental strength, I was like "Who needs VIT?!" and split my stats between STR and AGI for better damage and better ASPD for RTB.

Then again, constant misses don't bother me because you need so many fewer hits to actually kill a monster with Eden weapons. Most low level monsters drop in a handful of hits, and even if my hit rate is as low as 50%, I can handle waiting for the attack animations when I have decent ASPD (concentration pots and a musketeer hat after level 30, which results with decent ASPD even with the mental strength ASPD reduction). However, I have VIP and I've had snowier clips since pre-renewal (I once talked about putting them into orlean's gloves if I ever got one and one of my clan mates wanted to hurt me), so I guess I'm on easy mode.

[Kadelia]

Then you can be the bigger person and not let somebody disagreeing with you kill the thread. Eye for an eye posting makes it hard to read. You are both derailing the thread.

Right.

@holatuwol
I think what people may not know is that part of as recent update was the double the EXP required for most low levels. The reason for this is because Gravity (Korea) felt people didn't spend enough time as 1st/2nd job. It really is by design to be getting 0.1% per kill leveling on something your level instead of 10-15 higher.

Once you have some "elite" equipment and experience with the game (everything from well chewed pencils to +33 HIT food from battlegrounds), you can easily prepare your "noob" for hitting monsters 10-15 levels higher. That is part of the point of the monsters' current stats... to provide some semblance of a challenge to people who are skilled and well-funded-- they can attack stuff 15 levels higher, get a little more challenge for their gear, and level a bit faster as a reward.

The other thing is paying players get the perks. VIP + Battle manuals. You can level quickly on 'easy" monsters that you can hit 100% due to them being equal or lower leveled. \

There is also iRO's custom turn-ins which allow you to follow people who are better geared or leveled and get tons of EXP without being strong yourself (debatable whether or not this is healthy for the game, but that is another thread).

Touching on what you said, its worth noting that the Eden gear is worth pausing your leveling to hunt for.

Edited by Jaye, 05 April 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[TargetMonster]

Then you can be the bigger person and not let somebody disagreeing with you kill the thread. Eye for an eye posting makes it hard to read. You are both derailing the thread.

let the other person be smug about getting away with it and not you? i dont think so.

[Randomititiy]

IronPlushy, I am not going to waste any more time on you, as I wrote a pretty sound post that debunked you thoroughly, and you simply covered your eyes and ears and went "nya nya nya I am right you are wrong".

We have a few others here who do that the best logics is to ignore them as for what happened next I will respond to the next person on that.

let the other person be smug about getting away with it and not you? i dont think so.

It is called favortism for a reason.

Plus with out trolls these forums would be as dead as Hilary Clinton's sex life.

[sylverfyre]

I always heard the game sucked, really hard, in terms of balance lately. And as I can tell, the Speed/Defense balance is not an exception either.

"Average" players with a dedicated build for Flee, will have approximately Flee 320 ~ 330 at the 90s, only considering gears and no buffs like Increase AGI or Schwartzvalt Pine Jubilees or Improve Dodge, etc.

Vit chars have almost no issue at all since, VIT gives some defense, which seems to give even more at higher VIT, it also increases Max HP and Potion Recovery, which eases the mobbing. Suitable equips will give more recovery and defense, and the game abounds in such gears. However, they're very slow at 1v1.

Agi chars have many issues since the majority of the monsters have more acurracy that makes the "Average" players' flee look very tiny (Lv95 Roweens are so acurrate that you need Flee 373 for 95% dodge, pre mob-patch used to require Flee 338). They'll hardly reach to around 50% ~ 70% dodge at the renewal level threshold, making 1v1 much harder than it should be. Suitable equips are lighter and they give some flee and such, but the give less defense. Fast at 1v1, but shafted due to the over-acurracy of the foes.

Due to those points, Agi chars have to use even more potions than before in order to keep alive, and AGI chars usually have less Vit than the dedicated mobbers, not to mention that the potions won't heal very well in those chars.

In a nutshell, Agi chars excels in 1v1 while Vit chars excels in mobbing. But the game is being inclined toward to the Vit natures at offering many options for mobbers and very few for speedsters. This including... physical skills that ignore flee, gears like Nidhoggur Garb or Rideword Hat or Life Link or Etcetera (you know better than me regarding this), WoE's Flee penalty, over-acurracy of the monsters, and who knows what else.

My 2 cents .

How does this have to do with balance?

VIT is a PURELY defensive stat, with the exception of certain abilities that are increased by your max HP. It's gonna be better at keeping you alive than any other stat.

AGI is an offensive stat, which happens to give you a form of defense that is unreliable, but not nothing. Many chars can get more power, to a point, out of +AGI for increased ASPD than they can out of +STR.

The purpose of AGI changed somewhat with renewal - it's harder to get the required flee to dodge things, but the ASPD differences between high agi characters and low AGI characters are more significant now.

Get some VIT on your AGI char for defense - you don't need 100 like WoE characters do - just 50 will do - and it goes a LONG way. Your pots heal for a lot more and your HP is higher for when you get inevitably hit by imperfect flee rates and undodgeable skills.

[Kadelia]

Yeah. if AGI was as great of a defensive stat as VIT people could layer both and be too defensive while also having amazing aspd. This was fine pre-renewal because if you were a VIT/AGI tank,. you could do nothing else. Now you can get 100 STR/50 dex on top of that.

Edited by Jaye, 05 April 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[asayuu]

AGI was less useful pre-balance. And most of the flying kick shadow chasers classes knew very well of that. Isn't it, pre-balance "normal" sleep?

I don't like how Deep Sleep only catches low-INT classes now [Rangers and GX, and very few RGs] and yet has a very low duration. If it was spammable like Dazzler, maybe would be effective, but with the actual cooldown, it's not.

I like how Stone Curse got back to the game with the balance patch, and Sienna Execrate. A wide stone curse which works most of the time, but with a small area.

Maybe there would be no problem if pre-re effects casted by third classes had some [but not complete] stat-bypass, but keep as curable as they are now (and were pre-renewal too). Like Sienna, then add other working skills like Song of Destruction's stun, Hell's Plant stun/bleeding and so on.

Related to the AGI x VIT cause... Maybe a equipment should be created to give perfect dodge in a certain value of AGI, and combine it with LUK for better results. 1 pdodge every 7~8 agi maybe?

Talking about pdodge... Does it work at woe?

[Kadelia]

Sienna Execrate is actually a better disable now than DSL haha.

Anyways, p.dodge works in WoE, but only on melee attacks. The biggest bad you will lucky dodge is exceed break, sadly.

Interesting idea, reminds me of sniping suit and crit, but with p.dodge.

[Venruki]

p.dodge works on sonic blow. Was so nice to stack p.dodge back when edp sonic blow could 1 or 2 shot you.

[Sera]

getting shafted implies they were ever good to play in the first place

[Kadelia]

p.dodge works on sonic blow. Was so nice to stack p.dodge back when edp sonic blow could 1 or 2 shot you.

not

[Venruki]

not

Then explain how sonic blow from a lvl99 sinx missed my HP 3x in a row with 1 agi? Or how I was dodging multiple sonic blows from mobs tanking at NI3? It might of changed with renewal but it DEFINITELY worked pre-renewal.

[Viri]

1. You're lying. I've seen countless posts of people that couldn't even 99 pre-renewal and if they did it took months.

This cracks me up.

98-99 trans took anywhere from 10's of hours soloing to 1 hour with a good bio3 tkm party. My 2nd and 3rd trans character both were 1/1 novice to at least 96 trans in 2-3 days, 99 within the week. We had people 99 their character twice in the same day a few times in our labs parties. It wasn't hard it just took knowledge and gear. It was retardedly easy too. At one point in a TKM party during an exp event we were pulling 1b exp per hour(3 way split). So yeah 98-99 trans in 1 hour was totally possible.

Then explain how sonic blow from a lvl99 sinx missed my HP 3x in a row with 1 agi? Or how I was dodging multiple sonic blows from mobs tanking at NI3? It might of changed with renewal but it DEFINITELY worked pre-renewal.

And you could never pdodge skills. Except the weird ones like Martyr's reckoning which counted as a melee hit sorta(and exceed break/crush strike now). You're definitely wrong lol

[Falcifer]

Pure chance could be the answer, a 1 agi RK sometimes dodges things that need 430+ flee for 95% flee (although I don't know how much flee is needed for whatever other X% dodge).

If it just shows "miss" animations, then its not a lucky dodge. Lucky dodges have always had the small note come up above your head as far as I know.
Unfortunately, even if you get a lucky dodge on crushing strike/EB/MR, it doesn't use up their effect, so they can just slap you again :x always hated that

[Inubashiri]

Everytime I see this topic I can't help but think of:

[asayuu]

I find out funny a RK reaches 500+ hit easier than a Ranger or performer. Spear Dynamo is OP.

[Joshiji]

fragile classes like GX

GX aren't fragile. They have the same hp modifier as an rg and if you use a shield you can get pretty good survivability. Just pointing that out.

Edited by Joshiji, 07 April 2012 - 02:50 PM.

[FatherBob]

In regards to the Flee reduction in WoE, you can stack so many friggen Stat points these days that if that reduction wasn't in place physical attacks would be completely worthless. The only way to hit people would be with skills that have 100% hit rate which are rather few and far between and magic.

AKA no one would ever die unless they were GFisted.

Well, that wouldn't be a problem because EDP Crits hurt like hell and they work great for taking out anything and everything. Oh wait, there's the Sura menace with the constant chain everything from Cursed Circle. -_- it, I'm out!

Edited by FatherBob, 07 April 2012 - 08:13 PM.

[JuanThe]

what i want to know is why monsters get different modifiers than we do and they obviously dont have equipment

 

look at the stats on some monsters and you will see that they have much more hit than their dex and much more flee than their agi

 

not to mention there are no maps short of bio that have fewer, larger/stronger monsters and everything is mobby

 

agi is not as reliable as a defense not just because it is also offensive but because there is no 100% flee. I have gotten hit 3 times in a row by a mob i have 100% flee on and it happens reasonably often. That and flee is worthless in woe.

 

This game has shafted agi characters. they need to introduce maps with fewer enemies - or increase the reduction of flee to after 3 mobs not 2 - or get the mobs flee/hit in accordance with their stats

 

this is the only game ive seen that favors monsters and shafts players. mobs get to warp to you if you get away from them, you have stupid monsters like gazetis and violis that hit you from REALLY far with REALLY high aspd and not to mention they often turn around and start hitting you even if they are facing the other way which is not a mechanic that was in RO 10 years ago, and monster hit/flee is pretty retarded