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debuff aoes vs. vacuum


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#1 poopiehead

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 11:09 PM

didn't want to make another topic, so i just edited this -_-

im wondering if i should go for the debuff aoes for my xbow knight or go for soundless vaccuum.

i can see the debuffs being pretty useful in uw's since i'll have a bunch of people atking me at the same time. but soundless vacuum is helpful in 1v1's.

im mainly using this char for uw, so im leaning towards the debuffs, however im not sure i'd need to get all 3, especially the -20% def one - since champs have combat cry.

does anyone find these debuffs useful? either in uw or in 1v1. or should i just go for soundless vacuum and soul wreck (even though its not a stun anymore, 40% def down is alot =O)

Edited by poopiehead, 17 September 2010 - 10:15 PM.

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#2 BrownBear

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 05:09 AM

The effect of dura on weapon accuracy is minimal. Something like 1 acc per 3 dura. So you really shouldn't lose much accuracy from just dura. You will lose a lot of accuracy from not having the balance stat.

I would take precious over chivalrous for a weapon, but that is just my taste. Our defense is abundant and I feel the movement speed will help you more in wars. Precious will definitly not be a bad choice, because movement speed and hit and run tactics are the bread and butter of ranged fighters. If you can't get balanced I would take either precious or hardened. Comes down to whether you want more movement speed or more AP. You can probably get great AP easily, but I guarantee you that getting great movement speed will be a challenge.

I prefer the six stick not only for the attack speed but for the additional range as well. I do feel at higher levels of bonus attack speed (the % value in your character window) that you will better notice the higher attack speed of the six stick. But at low percentages of bonus attack speed, it won't be a huge difference. That +2 is probably 14 more attack speed (if we still saw the old system of measuring it, which is hidden from us now). It is nothing significant without a healthy bonus.

One more thing, the 10 AP difference will become larger at higher levels of refine. But in my opinion it still isn't going to be large enough to be a significant difference by itself.

Edited by BrownBear, 15 September 2010 - 05:10 AM.

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#3 poopiehead

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 07:09 AM

thanks! yah I'll prlly end up using prec. not a single. 6 stix in junnon, not even a yellow one -.-

I figure I'll get my needed acc from glor set that I didn't rly plan on getting before or something:/

is 2k-2.5k enough for uw? or should i go even higher? -_-

Edited by poopiehead, 15 September 2010 - 07:37 AM.

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#4 BrownBear

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 09:55 AM

2k-2.5k will work. If you can go higher, you should. I have 3k-3.1k (buff pot) and still wish I had more sometimes.
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#5 poopiehead

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 11:39 AM

2k-2.5k will work. If you can go higher, you should. I have 3k-3.1k (buff pot) and still wish I had more sometimes.




-_-

wuts ur avg kill in uw? (if u tried)

i cant seem to get enough kills to actually make me wanna try :C
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#6 BrownBear

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 07:24 AM

-_-

wuts ur avg kill in uw? (if u tried)

i cant seem to get enough kills to actually make me wanna try :C


Probably 20, on average. But that is for wars where RC/FG is outnumbered. If JO/AR is outnumbered I'd probably be lucky to get 10 (I am RC). In those really rare, balanced, close wars I tend to get a boatload (40+). But those come far apart.

If you seem to have trouble getting proofs, just snipe at clerics and easy targets while following a group of teammates. Even if you aren't getting proofs, simply contributing damage helps your team a lot. That is why it is better to kill weaker players right off the bat (in most situations), so that you can diminish your opponents numbers and therefore their total damage output. Because lets face it, no matter how good you are you cannot achieve much from facing a mob of players by yourself.

Never over-commit to a push and get surrounded. Running is not cowardly, it is tactical. Being in a bad position can result in death no matter how good you are and how bad the opponents are. Don't engage alone till you feel you are confident enough to take on anyone that comes your way.
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#7 poopiehead

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 09:31 AM

Probably 20, on average. But that is for wars where RC/FG is outnumbered. If JO/AR is outnumbered I'd probably be lucky to get 10 (I am RC). In those really rare, balanced, close wars I tend to get a boatload (40+). But those come far apart.

If you seem to have trouble getting proofs, just snipe at clerics and easy targets while following a group of teammates. Even if you aren't getting proofs, simply contributing damage helps your team a lot. That is why it is better to kill weaker players right off the bat (in most situations), so that you can diminish your opponents numbers and therefore their total damage output. Because lets face it, no matter how good you are you cannot achieve much from facing a mob of players by yourself.

Never over-commit to a push and get surrounded. Running is not cowardly, it is tactical. Being in a bad position can result in death no matter how good you are and how bad the opponents are. Don't engage alone till you feel you are confident enough to take on anyone that comes your way.


well, i currently uw on my 215 mage. i can kill ppl if they come alone and dont run away. i can go with a group and aoe people from a distance but i RARELY get the last hit..resulting in 0 proofs. and when i get out numbered, i dont even have a chance to run away cuz of low def and mspeed compare to others

this is why i made my knight, hopefully i can run away when i get out numbered or something >_>...tho i dont think getting the last hit will be any ezier, so i dont see how ppl can get so many kills (besides bourgs).

Edited by poopiehead, 16 September 2010 - 09:37 AM.

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#8 BrownBear

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 10:12 AM

Well I tend to run around freely and do my own thing a lot. I have the movement speed and defensive capabilities to be able to escape most sticky situations. Take note that your knight will be slow unless you actually try to get good movement speed through gear. And without good movement speed, you will have a very hard time escaping a large gang of people, regardless of your defense or HP. This is why I like using typhoon sets and wings in wars.

The last hit will surely be easier to get with a crossbow knight than with a mage though. You don't have to skill spam as badly as them and being ranged makes it much easier to get the last hit without getting yourself stuck in a bad situation. While with a group I don't have much trouble getting the last hit. It is simply a perk of being ranged and having decent melee (normal attack) capabilities.

But war isn't about collecting proofs. You should just try to do whatever will give your team an advantage to win. When I'm running around like a lone ranger, it isn't to collect proofs. I'm trying to keep the opponents distracted and maybe even be lucky enough to pick off important people (clerics, strong players caught alone).
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#9 poopiehead

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 11:11 AM

Well I tend to run around freely and do my own thing a lot. I have the movement speed and defensive capabilities to be able to escape most sticky situations. Take note that your knight will be slow unless you actually try to get good movement speed through gear. And without good movement speed, you will have a very hard time escaping a large gang of people, regardless of your defense or HP. This is why I like using typhoon sets and wings in wars.

The last hit will surely be easier to get with a crossbow knight than with a mage though. You don't have to skill spam as badly as them and being ranged makes it much easier to get the last hit without getting yourself stuck in a bad situation. While with a group I don't have much trouble getting the last hit. It is simply a perk of being ranged and having decent melee (normal attack) capabilities.

But war isn't about collecting proofs. You should just try to do whatever will give your team an advantage to win. When I'm running around like a lone ranger, it isn't to collect proofs. I'm trying to keep the opponents distracted and maybe even be lucky enough to pick off important people (clerics, strong players caught alone).


wouldnt u lose alot of acc/dmg with typhoons? and knights already have a not-so-great ap :\

yah, i have precious set and stuff for mspeed so i can run decently fast. still debating if i should get the spear mast or not. just waiting for all the nerfing finished.

i understand that its about team work in uw's. but getting proofs (even if its like 10) will give me so much more incentive to try harder in uw -_-
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#10 BrownBear

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 11:18 AM

The acc I posted is in a typhoon set. AP is 4.1k in the same set. Doesn't seem to affect me much. My set is typhoon SA7, D7 chiv chest, bal 6stick(13) SA7. Full chiv/lum gear. Wings are max movement speed, mask is 30/30 satet. I make it happen.
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#11 poopiehead

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 11:32 AM

The acc I posted is in a typhoon set. AP is 4.1k in the same set. Doesn't seem to affect me much. My set is typhoon SA7, D7 chiv chest, bal 6stick(13) SA7. Full chiv/lum gear. Wings are max movement speed, mask is 30/30 satet. I make it happen.


alot of acc for typhoon set ._.
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#12 Phish

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:05 PM

Alot of people overrate attack power and underrate attack speed. Granted you need both to do the most damage per second. With a precious sagi chest I will do more damage per second meleeing than with a chivalrous/luminous d7 chest, the ap is still obviously better for skill spamming though.
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#13 poopiehead

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:11 PM

Alot of people overrate attack power and underrate attack speed. Granted you need both to do the most damage per second. With a precious sagi chest I will do more damage per second meleeing than with a chivalrous/luminous d7 chest, the ap is still obviously better for skill spamming though.


but u lose defense D:
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#14 Phish

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:14 PM

but u lose defense D:



Yes, but it hardly makes a noticeable difference considering how high your defense is to begin with. You can still buff in one chest and fight in the other. And also where you lose defense you gain mspeed allowing you to take less hits while running away.

Edited by Phish, 16 September 2010 - 01:14 PM.

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#15 poopiehead

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:24 PM

Yes, but it hardly makes a noticeable difference considering how high your defense is to begin with. You can still buff in one chest and fight in the other. And also where you lose defense you gain mspeed allowing you to take less hits while running away.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

i'll try out diff combos when i get my wep -_-

Edited by poopiehead, 16 September 2010 - 01:24 PM.

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#16 BigBoss

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:32 PM

I was wondering brownbear is their a stat besides str that adds ap to a crossbow? I would assume dex? I would like to make sure before I make any changes.
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#17 poopiehead

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:51 PM

I was wondering brownbear is their a stat besides str that adds ap to a crossbow? I would assume dex? I would like to make sure before I make any changes.

dex adds 0.35ap per point
sen adds 0.1 ap per pt
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#18 BigBoss

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Posted 16 September 2010 - 01:54 PM

Thanks I appreciate it.
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