13 replies to this topic

[sonick]

I know AGI is supposed to reduce animation-delay for DB, but it seems like it's not really working for me. With Bless+Agi+Sacra+Strings+BerserkPot+Celermine+EdenBuffs+Foods, I can hit up to 184 ASPD. I don't seem to be able to spam DB as quickly as I see other RKs do. Based on my own testings, it seems like the key to spamming DB is timing, and not so much ASPD? It's sort of like how spamming pots at the right timing allows you to burn through them faster. Either that, or I'm starting to think maybe these RKs are geared with Kiel or 2 Kiels? That might make perfect DB spamming timing more negligible, right? I'm not exactly sure how this works and it'd be greatly appreciated if somebody could explain to me if my thoughts on this matter are wrong. Thank you for the advice in advance!

[ilovemilk]

Those RKs have buffs. Sac, Linker, food?, who knows what else they are using. 184 ASPD should be enough for animation delay.

[sonick]

Yea, I was thinking that 184 ASPD is enough to see a considerable difference but it seems like the timing at which you spam DB is the main reason why some people are able to spam DB at a much greater rate than others and that animation-delay only does so much. There have been times when I notice myself DB-ing at the rate of which many RKs are unable to attain but more often than not, I am unable to replicate this rate when I want to, which leads me to believe that the timing highly affects the rate and not so much the animation-delay. Once again, I am not saying ASPD does not have any effect. I'm merely suggesting that it is secondary compared to getting used to the timing of spamming DB.

Thoughts?

[Viri]

Timing has a huge effect on it. Just mashing your key and clicking won't do.

[DrAzzy]

Timing has a huge effect on it. Just mashing your key and clicking won't do.

Very much this.

It's one of the things that falls under "player skills".

[sonick]

Ah, there we go. Thank you to both of you for confirming my thoughts. I was also wondering, would 100 AGI be way too much? Would a mix of mid-high AGI and mid STR be more beneficial? Some SC Masquerades' success rates are based off weight and some are based on resistance improved by AGI. Too make a more balanced RK, should I drop AGI to perhaps 70-80 and pump STR to somewhere around 50-60?

[Viri]

Having 1 str is dumb, you are correct in your assumption that balancing those 2 stats would overall be beneficial. In my opinion at least. At least get 40 str it's so cheap overall in stat points.

[MotherOneDog]

Well this is how my stat build looks like (these are only base stats, gear bonuses and job bonuses not included):

STR: 39
AGI: 101
VIT: 100
INT: 100
DEX: 90
LUK: 1

Would it be advisable to lower AGI and invest in some LUK for a little bit of resistance to Howl?

Edited by MotherOneDog, 07 December 2012 - 11:51 AM.

[DrAzzy]

Viri, you should have caught this.

Some SC Masquerades' success rates are based off weight and some are based on resistance improved by AGI.

This is flat out wrong. They all have the same formula.


Success Rate = {(Caster’s Base Level / 10) + Random number between [(Caster’s DEX / 12) ~ (Caster’s DEX / 4)] + (Caster’s Job Level) + (Skill Level x 10) - < (Target’s Base Level / 10) + [Random number between [(Target’s AGI / 6) ~ (Target’s AGI / 3)] + (Target’s LUK / 10) + [(Target’s Maximum Weight - Current weight) / 100]>] %

Minimum of (Skill Level + (DEX / 20)) % success rate.

30 str = 900 weight = 9%

30 agi -> agi/6 = 5, agi/3 = 10 -> 5~10% -> Average 7.5%

Thus per point, str helps more than agi, so your str should be higher than your agi.

Str is also, you know, generally a useful stat, because it brings weight limit, and if you get enough of it, makes CS with overupped KVM or HS with ur set and vellum (in WoE) or 2x AS 2xEA Gungnir in PVM useful. Whereas agi is useless except for masq resist.

Well this is how my stat build looks like (these are only base stats, gear bonuses and job bonuses not included):

STR: 39
AGI: 101
VIT: 100
INT: 100
DEX: 90
LUK: 1

Would it be advisable to lower AGI and invest in some LUK for a little bit of resistance to Howl?

What exactly is this build supposed to be? The dex is kinda low, the agi is stupid high, it's got no str so it's not a HS or aspd build, and it's got int like a DB build, but the vit is too low and the int too high for a proper DB build (I've gone over this in another thread - vit adds more per point than int does due to the low base SP pool of RK - you get more than 12.5x as much hp from 1 vit as you do sp from 1 int, hence the balance should always favor vit.

Edited by DrAzzy, 07 December 2012 - 11:56 AM.

[sonick]

Well this is how my stat build looks like (these are only base stats, gear bonuses and job bonuses not included):

STR: 39
AGI: 101
VIT: 100
INT: 100
DEX: 90
LUK: 1

Would it be advisable to lower AGI and invest in some LUK for a little bit of resistance to Howl?

Oh, we have quite similar stat builds. Lol. I'd also like to know about MotherOneDog's question!

[sonick]

Viri, you should have caught this.


This is flat out wrong. They all have the same formula.


Success Rate = {(Caster’s Base Level / 10) + Random number between [(Caster’s DEX / 12) ~ (Caster’s DEX / 4)] + (Caster’s Job Level) + (Skill Level x 10) - < (Target’s Base Level / 10) + [Random number between [(Target’s AGI / 6) ~ (Target’s AGI / 3)] + (Target’s LUK / 10) + [(Target’s Maximum Weight - Current weight) / 100]>] %

Minimum of (Skill Level + (DEX / 20)) % success rate.

30 str = 900 weight = 9%

30 agi -> agi/6 = 5, agi/3 = 10 -> 5~10% -> Average 7.5%

Thus per point, str helps more than agi, so your str should be higher than your agi.

Str is also, you know, generally a useful stat, because it brings weight limit, and if you get enough of it, makes CS with overupped KVM or HS with ur set and vellum (in WoE) or 2x AS 2xEA Gungnir in PVM useful. Whereas agi is useless except for masq resist.

Oh, DrAzzy, I phrased that wrongly. I meant the success rate is affected by the target's weight, not the SC's weight.

[DrAzzy]

Oh, DrAzzy, I phrased that wrongly. I meant the success rate is affected by the target's weight, not the SC's weight.

No, you phrased that much of it right.

What you said was that "SOME" masquerades are effected by weight, and SOME are effected by agi - that implies that the formulas for different Masqs is different. ALL masquerades are effected by both weight and agi (both of target, of course), and have the SAME formula.

[sonick]

No, you phrased that much of it right.

What you said was that "SOME" masquerades are effected by weight, and SOME are effected by agi - that implies that the formulas for different Masqs is different. ALL masquerades are effected by both weight and agi (both of target, of course), and have the SAME formula.

Oh, okay. Gotcha! Thanks a lot for all the advice!

[DrAzzy]

The real key to how much agi to get is how much weight you'll keep free in WoE. If you keep a lot of weight open, you only need 60 agi tops to get the success rate of most chasers down very close to the minimum

The net effect is that you need enough str if you want to not get stripped easily that you're disturbingly close to an HS/DB woe build when you're done.

Edited by DrAzzy, 07 December 2012 - 01:50 PM.