48 replies to this topic

[CeruleanGamer]

So, does the procs from CD affect your other autocasts (autowarg, fear breeze)? Or does it only affect your ability to recast buffs like AC/FE effectively?

When the 160 cap comes by, we could easily get 70-90 int included with the aspd builds, although it would require a +14 BM elven bow to work. Figured that the CD could at least provide some dmg to an autowarger with that boost in matk. In the event that you would need to rebuff, you could swap out CD for other something else, rebuff, then swap back.

Your equips will be more likely have no MATK bonus unless you're using Mystic Bow (crappy bow btw). Bows do not give MATK from refines as well.....

MATK from Int stat is STATUS MATK and does not contribute a lot to your overall damage. CD will be forever useless to a Ranger, so you shouldn't bother making a build around it.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 14 December 2012 - 06:47 PM.

[Xallista]

Well its more of a bonus rather than building around it, since having 85int/100agi/100luk/90dex/95vit @160 would mean being able to switch gears towards AS spamming when necessary, while still managing to maintain 193 aspd. Not to mention that the int boost would speed up cast time for AS as well.

Its either that, or 110dex/luk, since you don't really need more than 100 agi/95 vit (for stun immunity with job bonus). [20(22) dex/10 luk] vs [84 int].

On a separate note, why does warg bite miss at times? I've never had that issue with warg strike before, not to mention that manual warg bite has max cell range, while manual warg strike only has 9 cells?

Edited by Xallista, 14 December 2012 - 07:14 PM.

[CeruleanGamer]

Well its more of a bonus rather than building around it, since having 85int/100agi/100luk/90dex/95vit @160 would mean being able to switch gears towards AS spamming when necessary, while still managing to maintain 193 aspd. Not to mention that the int boost would speed up cast time for AS as well.

Its either that, or 110dex/luk, since you don't really need more than 100 agi/95 vit (for stun immunity with job bonus). [20(22) dex/10 luk] vs [84 int].

On a separate note, why does warg bite miss at times? I've never had that issue with warg strike before, not to mention that manual warg bite has max cell range, while manual warg strike only has 9 cells?

It doesn't hurt to get higher LUK and DEX. Those stats are a ton more useful than INT (INT only good for pure Arrow Storm builds). Personally when we do get 160 max level, I would probably rebuild my Ranger to 120 LUK and focus on gearing more LUK gears to get 70-75% chance to auto Warg.

Imagine that with 193 ASPD and DWW, you can literally misclick someone and kill them instantly in PvP, so you better watch where you click. lol

Also, hybrid Arrow Storm/ASPD builds are fail and has been proven a hundred times already. It's either pure AS build or ASPD AGI/LUK Warger (this build has no Arrow Storm) or Manual Warg (STR Ranger with knife+Shield).

Warg Bite can miss. You need a ton of hit to hit those pesky GXes in PvP.

[Xallista]

I don't really see a ton of other skills worth getting aside from AS. As you've said, Warg ride/dash aren't really worth the skill points since you can rent mounts, and the traps are pretty much useless in their current state (especially since they require INT). At best you could go for Ranger Main or Keen nose, neither of which would help that much (mayaP is superior). I would much rather get AS 10 over those 2 skills.

I don't see how a hybrid @160 is "fail" when they do not lose out in either hp or aspd. Nobody claims it provides better dps than a purely 1int build (more luk/dex in always better), but it does not suddenly make them 50% weaker than a pure build. It gives you the ability to use your ranger for something other than being a ctrl-click slave. You know, like for farming equipments/materials? You are basing "usefulness" in terms of MVP/WoE/PVP, I'm thinking in terms of MVP/PVM. There are better classes to bring to WoE.

My point on warg bite missing is that it is the ONLY skill that misses on monsters (other than angra mantis, who has ridiculously high flee).

[sofico]

Warg Bite can miss. You need a ton of hit to hit those pesky GXes in PvP.

Or those pesky sinXes in bio 3.


But yeah, i dont see anything useful to get with the remaining 5 points left for AS. I'm assuming I'd still go for camo and lv 5 is a prereq. Id still max arrow storm.
I have 2 points left to allocate on my ranger that i have no idea what to do with, with all AS, camo, bite, strike and warg stuff maxed and the only thing i can think of is either warg ride 2 or trap research 2 which is stupid on a warg build anyway. Unless i get traps, there is nothing else to get.
No need for trap research since i can go for +250 enchants on boots, 2 WW brooches with 250 sp, rideword and incubus and I should be fine farming anywhere with Arrow Storm and 1 int. arcangeling somewhere too since luk is high anyway. Even an aspd build can deal with the sp issue... And in WoE, why would a ranger need sp? Unless youre ASing people like a nub.... xD
So i will probably end up with warg ride 2 anyway...

So, Creza, what would you do with the points removed from arrow storm and warg riding?


I do agree however that hybrid is kind of someone who thinks he is awesome at everything when he is below average on everything.
So yeah, at some point my ranger was pure AS with high int. I turned 150 and went aspd. There is no in between. Parties will hate u if youre an aspd ranger whining about your sp all the time and cant cast AS fast enough.

Edited by sofico, 14 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[Memoir]

If you do your part in ti no one will whine. Even if you are aspd ranger, all you need is to just learn how to use it right. If ranger is suffering from sp loss, they should learn to invest in blue pots.
You can invest points to warg teeth, keen nose and warg related stuff.
Warg bite is less effective if the target has high Agi, but it will hit if you have proper hit or Dex.
I think cd in mouth is not really that great for ranger imo but if it's your personal preference then to each it's own.

Edited by Memoir, 15 December 2012 - 05:02 AM.

[sofico]

I got warg teeth max already. I don't see a point in lvl 2 keen nose...
Anyways, I tried TIs after I reset. My party had a AS ranger too. I start casting and he finishes his cast before I do....
It's not effective and pointless. No one should go aspd build before 150. Tank died once because my AS casts too slow. (he was lagging so he couldn't pot LOL)


Oh and, I used mid bfgs with AA in Ti. Obviously, not everyone has it. I found AA will keep your sp nearly always max with mag up even if you have 1 int. And no, unfortunately, people do not learn to invest in blue pots because they (people) are cheap like that.

Aspd ranger is good at MVPing. They aren't meant for parties .
I only managed to hitlock moonie, drake (who is super easy to hit lock even with like 188ish aspd), I think I hit locked white lady once, with193 aspd, because she couldn't waterball me.

193 is effortless to get with average equips. (I think once I get everything I want I'll just remake my ranger with much less Agi)
Equips I used to get 193:
No ancient mimic yet or odium of Thanatos (this would give me 193 without Agi up even)
+4 agi white wing manteau and full white wing set (going to try to get some more Agi enchants, like +7 Agi manteau)
falcon eyes(+5 to all stats), improve concentration, awake pot, celermine juice, Agi up 10
Glorious ring gives 5% aspd
120 base Agi
Incubus horns + demon mask 1 flat aspd and +10%

Edited by sofico, 15 December 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

Yeah, I can't stand Rangers who don't invest in Converters, Blue Pots, and even quivers (I've seen a few of these noobs...) Seriously, if you invest on these. it will make TIs much more faster so you can invest your time somewhere else. It's really a small investment in exchange for something bigger.

[sofico]

And then you try helping those noobs by casting a tree on top of them.... And they MOVE OUT OF IT!
/grrr

[Memoir]

AA card is good for pvm. Although I did put mine in my rwh and it works amazing. You can be aspd even without 150. The thing is that if you will be in a party like when doing ti, you have to act as support.
Keen nose is one of my favorite skills actually. It's really epic if you know how to use it properly.
Oh and I like using my sniper goggles.

Edited by Memoir, 15 December 2012 - 07:38 AM.

[Xallista]

Or those pesky sinXes in bio 3.


But yeah, i dont see anything useful to get with the remaining 5 points left for AS. I'm assuming I'd still go for camo and lv 5 is a prereq. Id still max arrow storm.
I have 2 points left to allocate on my ranger that i have no idea what to do with, with all AS, camo, bite, strike and warg stuff maxed and the only thing i can think of is either warg ride 2 or trap research 2 which is stupid on a warg build anyway. Unless i get traps, there is nothing else to get.
No need for trap research since i can go for +250 enchants on boots, 2 WW brooches with 250 sp, rideword and incubus and I should be fine farming anywhere with Arrow Storm and 1 int. arcangeling somewhere too since luk is high anyway. Even an aspd build can deal with the sp issue... And in WoE, why would a ranger need sp? Unless youre ASing people like a nub.... xD
So i will probably end up with warg ride 2 anyway...

Last 2 points can either go to trap research, keen nose or electric shock (aoe ankle snare with sp drain). I am personally going 1 trap research and 1 electric shock. Also, instead of 2 WW brooch, shouldn't you be using a phen carded bow thimble? You can't always avoid getting hit, and getting interrupted while having an already long cast time can be bad (like with your dead tank example, although that was about speed).

I do agree however that hybrid is kind of someone who thinks he is awesome at everything when he is below average on everything.
So yeah, at some point my ranger was pure AS with high int. I turned 150 and went aspd. There is no in between. Parties will hate u if youre an aspd ranger whining about your sp all the time and cant cast AS fast enough.

I would agree that hybrid is a bad idea in the current cap, but at cap 160 you get enough stat points (283?) to counter that problem. You could go 74 int, 100 dex/agi/luk, 95 vit (for stun immunity with job bonus), or the 85 int build I had posted above. I mean really, if they release even further lvl caps, are you just going to max out dex/luk to 125/130 even if those would cost way more stat points than necessary?

100 luk (base) + 5 luk (FE) + 20 luk (food) + 10 luk WW suit (my current one) + 2 luk (BDM) + 3 luk (FLC) = 140 luk (46% autowarg)

So a ranger with self-buffed 193 aspd, 46% autowarg chance, 573 addtional base SP/18 additional base sp regen is *bad*?

193 is effortless to get with average equips. (I think once I get everything I want I'll just remake my ranger with much less Agi)
Equips I used to get 193:
No ancient mimic yet or odium of Thanatos (this would give me 193 without Agi up even)
+4 agi white wing manteau and full white wing set (going to try to get some more Agi enchants, like +7 Agi manteau)
falcon eyes(+5 to all stats), improve concentration, awake pot, celermine juice, Agi up 10
Glorious ring gives 5% aspd
120 base Agi
Incubus horns + demon mask 1 flat aspd and +10%

You forgot Guarana Candy (10%). They last for 30mins per use, and can stack with awakening pots as well.

[CeruleanGamer]

I would agree that hybrid is a bad idea in the current cap, but at cap 160 you get enough stat points (283?) to counter that problem. You could go 74 int, 100 dex/agi/luk, 95 vit (for stun immunity with job bonus), or the 85 int build I had posted above. I mean really, if they release even further lvl caps, are you just going to max out dex/luk to 125/130 even if those would cost way more stat points than necessary?

100 luk (base) + 5 luk (FE) + 20 luk (food) + 10 luk WW suit (my current one) + 2 luk (BDM) + 3 luk (FLC) = 140 luk (46% autowarg)

So a ranger with self-buffed 193 aspd, 46% autowarg chance, 573 addtional base SP/18 additional base sp regen is *bad*?

Bad because if the cap was indeed raised, I could see Rangers get about 50-60% chance to Autowarg and even break 600 HIT to boot so they'll never ever miss even against MvPs with Agi up and GX on Hallu Walk. Why would I give up on that in exchange for extra SP/regen...

Heck, I would probably even use those extra stat points on STR instead so I could carry more speed pots. Running out of Speed pots in PvP/WoE as a Ranger is certain death...

[sofico]

Last 2 points can either go to trap research, keen nose or electric shock (aoe ankle snare with sp drain). I am personally going 1 trap research and 1 electric shock. Also, instead of 2 WW brooch, shouldn't you be using a phen carded bow thimble? You can't always avoid getting hit, and getting interrupted while having an already long cast time can be bad (like with your dead tank example, although that was about speed).


I would agree that hybrid is a bad idea in the current cap, but at cap 160 you get enough stat points (283?) to counter that problem. You could go 74 int, 100 dex/agi/luk, 95 vit (for stun immunity with job bonus), or the 85 int build I had posted above. I mean really, if they release even further lvl caps, are you just going to max out dex/luk to 125/130 even if those would cost way more stat points than necessary?

100 luk (base) + 5 luk (FE) + 20 luk (food) + 10 luk WW suit (my current one) + 2 luk (BDM) + 3 luk (FLC) = 140 luk (46% autowarg)

So a ranger with self-buffed 193 aspd, 46% autowarg chance, 573 addtional base SP/18 additional base sp regen is *bad*?


You forgot Guarana Candy (10%). They last for 30mins per use, and can stack with awakening pots as well.

2 brooches is for when i camo in bio3. Trying to get +250 sp boots too.. Rideword doesnt proc often enough for me. Need an incubus. But this is my point. I dont need int because its just for convenience. I would rather be a better dps and have higher survivability. Int is not necessary on a ranger. I can get +750 sp enchants, a rideword, archangeling, incubus. Why give up my dps for extra regen? I dont need the dam matk!
When i can be seen or interrupted i use phen. But usually i dont. WOE? No. MVP? why if im hitlocking em? TIs? I'm 150 and i can just finish my job off eventually by killing mvps. I'm not in a hurry.
When i need aspd i use glorious ring.
2nd accessory is anything i want it to be. I might just go with bradium brooch under cast, since im not giving much of my aspd away for being uninterruptable.
Eitherway, if there is a cap to 160, i would just go more dex vit and luk. Maybe even just luk. Get 120 luk so the warg procs more. More vit. More hit. I wouldnt go int, since that is not the purpose of my ranger. If i wanted to be smart, id make a sorc or warlock...

Also, does guarana really stack with awakes? It gives the same icon. I thought is just a glorified concentration pot that give 5 agi.

Edited by sofico, 15 December 2012 - 10:19 PM.

[MrTyranitar]

Bad because if the cap was indeed raised, I could see Rangers get about 50-60% chance to Autowarg and even break 600 HIT to boot so they'll never ever miss even against MvPs with Agi up and GX on Hallu Walk. Why would I give up on that in exchange for extra SP/regen...

Heck, I would probably even use those extra stat points on STR instead so I could carry more speed pots. Running out of Speed pots in PvP/WoE as a Ranger is certain death...

600 hit won't save you vs. Agi Upped MVPs considering it doubles/triples their flee.

[Xallista]

Bad because if the cap was indeed raised, I could see Rangers get about 50-60% chance to Autowarg and even break 600 HIT to boot so they'll never ever miss even against MvPs with Agi up and GX on Hallu Walk. Why would I give up on that in exchange for extra SP/regen...

Heck, I would probably even use those extra stat points on STR instead so I could carry more speed pots. Running out of Speed pots in PvP/WoE as a Ranger is certain death...

I don't think rangers have issues getting 50-60% autowarg in parties. There's a limit when looking at solo though. 100 base luk and another 40 from skills/items = 46%. With 20 more base luk that bumps up to 53%. To go further would require perfect-enchanted white-wing stuff, which is probably way harder to obtain than MVP cards. I'm talking about 15 luk WW suit, 15 luk WW manteau, and based on the wiki, 15 luk ww boots (I can't check since nobody ever sells +9 ww boots on vends, whereas there is clear evidence on ragial that +5 luk enchants exists on the suit and manteau).

So in the ideal solo scenario, 125 (base) + 2 (BDM) + 3 (FLC) +5 (FE) + 45 (perfect enchanted WW suit, manteau, boots) + 10 (brisingamen) + 2 (holden card) + 5 (venatu card @90+ base agi) = 65% autowarg. This, of course, assumes you can hit 193 aspd without the use ancient mimic/phylla card. In other words, even for the rich, you will not see your solo autowarg rate hit 60%.But I disgress.

And er...WoEing with an aspd ranger? wouldn't you be too squishy on offense, and needing DWW all the time (in defense or offense) as well? Surely you have better alternative in classes/builds (CK/shield str manual warger or thanatos/giant xbow AS) to bring to WoE?

2 brooches is for when i camo in bio3. Trying to get +250 sp boots too.. Rideword doesnt proc often enough for me. Need an incubus. But this is my point. I dont need int because its just for convenience. I would rather be a better dps and have higher survivability. Int is not necessary on a ranger. I can get +750 sp enchants, a rideword, archangeling, incubus. Why give up my dps for extra regen? I dont need the dam matk!
When i can be seen or interrupted i use phen. But usually i dont. WOE? No. MVP? why if im hitlocking em? TIs? I'm 150 and i can just finish my job off eventually by killing mvps. I'm not in a hurry.
When i need aspd i use glorious ring.
2nd accessory is anything i want it to be. I might just go with bradium brooch under cast, since im not giving much of my aspd away for being uninterruptable.
Eitherway, if there is a cap to 160, i would just go more dex vit and luk. Maybe even just luk. Get 120 luk so the warg procs more. More vit. More hit. I wouldnt go int, since that is not the purpose of my ranger. If i wanted to be smart, id make a sorc or warlock...

Also, does guarana really stack with awakes? It gives the same icon. I thought is just a glorified concentration pot that give 5 agi.

Fair point on sp enchants. But in the event that you choose to use CD over a FLC, the extra matk can actually make the bolts do decent damage while providing extra hitlocking capabilities (and it can't be missed/blocked unless against a GTB opponent(?)). According to the iwData stat calculator, @165 stat matk (85 base +8 job bonus int), against ifrit, a single cold bolt does 110 dmg, up to 5 hits @lvl 5 on a CD. The other elements does crap of course. Definitely on the gimmicky side of things. That, and much faster cast time for AS. (roughly half of a 1 int build).

Yes, guarana does stack with awakening, as does celemine juice (according to my guildmate). Problem with celemine juice is that it has no buff icon, and only lasts 8 mins compared to the 30mins guarana candy/awakening pot. At best I would plan my agi build around guarana and awakening, any maybe +20 agi food if you can constantly afford it.

Edited by Xallista, 20 December 2012 - 07:41 AM.

[CeruleanGamer]

And er...WoEing with an aspd ranger? wouldn't you be too squishy on offense, and needing DWW all the time (in defense or offense) as well? Surely you have better alternative in classes/builds (CK/shield str manual warger or thanatos/giant xbow AS) to bring to WoE?

Not everyone has Thanatos card. Arrow Storm blows even with Giant Crossbow in WoE. A good ASPD Ranger doesn't stand on 1 spot and uses speedpots a lot. They can drop dangerous targets before those targets can get into attacking range. Rangers are actually a good class on the hands of a good player and a Ranger on a hands of a pro has more impact than a Sura or RK on a hands of a pro.

[zefram]

...snip...
Yes, guarana does stack with awakening, as does celemine juice (according to my guildmate). Problem with celemine juice is that it has no buff icon, and only lasts 8 mins compared to the 30mins guarana candy/awakening pot. At best I would plan my agi build around guarana and awakening, any maybe +20 agi food if you can constantly afford it.

Guarana candy does not stack with awakening potion,but lvl 5 agi up you get from the candy is extremely helpful for aspd rangers.It doesn't last long though, i think it lasts 2-3 min.

I used to use +2 agi foods too.All the ingredients are NPC buyable and you can cook them by yourself.There is no reason to not to use it , unless you depend vip buffs too.0-10 foods' effect does not stack with vip buffs.

You can also pet a shinobi, if its not too much of a burden.

Edited by zefram, 21 December 2012 - 06:19 AM.

[Xallista]

Not everyone has Thanatos card. Arrow Storm blows even with Giant Crossbow in WoE. A good ASPD Ranger doesn't stand on 1 spot and uses speedpots a lot. They can drop dangerous targets before those targets can get into attacking range. Rangers are actually a good class on the hands of a good player and a Ranger on a hands of a pro has more impact than a Sura or RK on a hands of a pro.

WoE noob here (not that I can do it efficently with the amount of delay I have) but can an ASPD ranger drop targets without the use of DWW? Unless you create a build purely for WoE (ie ditch ww set and wear woe gears instead, somehow manage to get 193 aspd with food/buffs...120 base agi?) you'll be squishy as hell, and swaping entire armor sets simply doesn't sound practical (suit/manteau/boots/accessory) each time you get hit, compared to simply switching to a shield and back to the bow.

Guarana candy does not stack with awakening potion,but lvl 5 agi up you get from the candy is extremely helpful for aspd rangers.It doesn't last long though, i think it lasts 2-3 min.

I used to use +2 agi foods too.All the ingredients are NPC buyable and you can cook them by yourself.There is no reason to not to use it , unless you depend vip buffs too.0-10 foods' effect does not stack with vip buffs.

You can also pet a shinobi, if its not too much of a burden.

Sure looks like it does. Unless iRO is messing with me.

Edited by Xallista, 24 December 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[zefram]

you're fooled by the buff icons, its just that.
try using both awake and concantrate potion consecutively .you'll see 2 seperate x2 icon on the right,but ofc it doesn't mean awake and concantrate potion stacks too.
Or just try using the candy, after you use the awake, and wait untill agi-up icon dissapears.You'll figure you have same aspd(164).
Candy does not stack with Awake, but agi-up buff you get helps you to get more aspd

And jesus man, you're still keeping that eden manual/scrolls?

Edited by zefram, 24 December 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[Xallista]

Yea, looks like I got fooled, didn't realize that guarana = concentration potion effect (i thought it was just borrowing the icon). I have a +9 turkey hat to get lvl 9 agi up (11 agi) so that would be better. ECJ stacks with awakening though?

Yea, I'm saving the eden freebies as emergency

Edited by Xallista, 24 December 2012 - 12:27 PM.

[zefram]

yeah EJC stacks with awake, thats why you got 4 more aspd right there lol (164>>168 )
cook +2 foods dude its fun

[Xallista]

I might do that if I don't renew my VIP (they don't stack right?)

[zefram]

nope they don't.

[Memoir]

WoE noob here (not that I can do it efficently with the amount of delay I have) but can an ASPD ranger drop targets without the use of DWW?

Yes I can. Depends on what class you are targeting tho

Edited by Memoir, 25 December 2012 - 09:25 AM.