Sura - Specific Renewal Feedback - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

Sura


  • Please log in to reply
254 replies to this topic

#1 Heimdallr

Heimdallr

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Community Managers
  • 3635 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:48 PM

What is bugged, or undesirable about the Sura?

What skills are fine, need tweaking?
  • 0

#2 Kyomotto

Kyomotto

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 35 posts

Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:04 PM

Shura's Zen is ridiculously slow, should change the fix cast time to 1s instead of 1.43s. Gfist literally takes 3s to cast. Rampage blast is doing 1/4 its original dmg. 20k to dragons instead of 80k.
  • 0

#3 Theoretical

Theoretical

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 652 posts
  • LocationOrlando, Florida
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:25-Life

Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:09 PM

I agree, with Kyomotto. Zen is way to slow to cast, I see Suras casting SSS instead of Zen....
  • 0

#4 Kaden14

Kaden14

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 140 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:03 AM

I'm pretty sure the devs had Sacrament in mind when they were deciding on these cast times. You've probably never gotten the buff before because there aren't many arch bishops high enough to have it yet.

There's nothing wrong with the zen cast time. It just means you now need to rely on the primary supporting class in the game which became completely obsolete pre-renewal.
  • 1

#5 Puppet

Puppet

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 831 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 02 November 2010 - 08:32 AM

Zen - give it 1 sec fixed cast, I mean i sorta understand that Rasing dragon 10 lets you get 15 spheres with one zen but still it still to slow imo

Occult - completely useless now get rid of the fixed cast time or make it do damage cause every monster it use it on it does 3.5k no more no less even with things with HIGH DEF it is also no longer neutral attack either.

TSS - not as complete useless as OC now reduce its fixed cast time to something like 1.5 sec

SSA- remove the need for /ns on monsters, Remove the fixed cast time or make it so skill takes SP from monster at much higher rate.

Would love it if the Gentle touch skill animations did not put you in the cast bug postion and the animation ended like Zen does.

Edited by Puppet, 02 November 2010 - 08:34 AM.

  • 0

#6 Tolrin

Tolrin

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 300 posts

Posted 02 November 2010 - 08:53 AM

I'm pretty sure the devs had Sacrament in mind when they were deciding on these cast times. You've probably never gotten the buff before because there aren't many arch bishops high enough to have it yet.

There's nothing wrong with the zen cast time. It just means you now need to rely on the primary supporting class in the game which became completely obsolete pre-renewal.


1000% agree, I main classed champion for a very long time, and I think the fix cast change that was already implemented on zen (2 second fixed cast to 1.4 second) was already overpowered. Zen is a fantastically powerful skill, and with proper buffs you can now summon spheres FAR faster than you were ever able to pre-renewal ( 0.7 second cast time for 15 spheres compared to 0.3 second cast time for 5 spheres.)

As for other stuff, I don't think anyone has gotten enough levels on a sura to give accurate feedback, but I have a feeling that cursed circle and knuckle arrow will both need to be addressed at some point.

Edited by Tolrin, 02 November 2010 - 08:54 AM.

  • 0

#7 Rumm

Rumm

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 06:50 AM

here is a post I put up in April on iRoWiki, http://forums.irowik...&postcount=1791

It may be too late to implement all of these ideas, though perhaps some portion of this could be applied to Sura gameplay/physics. Such as having a 3rd quest skill that gives combo bonuses as described below.


I've been chewing on how to fix sura's without deleting the entire class...actually i came up with something pretty cool. Make all of their skills combo oriented in different types of ways. Combo's are by far the most unique trait of this class...yet why hasn't it been further developed? I think i saw Feral post something to this extent 20 pages back or so. but here it is:

Change virtually all skills to being part of combo's. Such as having 3 main types of combos: Fist combo's, Sphere Combo's, and Movement Combo's.

Fist combo: 2 basic Modifications to these are needed to make them viable.
1-make virtually all monk/champ/sura melee skills (skills blocked by safetywall) part of combinations. As a result develop what skills can connect to what and add more initial combo skills such as excruciating palm and raging palm strike
2-give a buff to these combinations that gives sura's and exponential damage increase for each combination done. Such as, modify pp:Energy into giving a +5% damage increase for each successful skill chaining. So after doing tripleblow->quad blow->raging thrust your damage is now increased +15%. Though there would be an intial limit to stacking of up to 30%+ damage. This buff would have a short duration of 2~3 seconds that's timer is reset with each melee combo, but when the time is up all the bonus damage is lost and the counter will have to be rebuilt from 0%

Movement Combinations: To Make combinations easier to accomplish on moving targets. Here is were cursed circle & snap get modified. For Snap require that it always costs 2 Spirit sphere's, has a 5 second re-use delay, and can only be used during a melee combination. But in exchange it can be used mid-combination to continue a broken combination on a new target or a fleeing original target. This changes snap into becoming a wonderful pursuit tool yet gives lightning walk value as well as a great initial way to close distance. Now for cursed Circle, first totally drop everything it doesn now. Instead change it to be a ground cast skill (with a circle of the chinese characters) that allows for combo's to continue onto multiple targets without the use of snap, and allows the damage +increase to stack up to 60% for melee instead of 30%. Additionally the Combo damage % increase would remain while in the circle. The Circle itself would be a ground buff that lasts a base of 5seconds +3 seconds per skill level. Cost one blue gem and one Spirit sphere.

Sphere/Ranged Combinations :Apply the dynamic of melee combo's with the potential of ranged attacks.
Firstly establish combinations like TSS->Raging Palm Strike (so ranged/melee can mix). Also establish ranged combo chains for sura, such as Tss->Ride the lightning->Howling lion->Raging Blaster->GoH. Or another example: Ride the lightning->RB->GoH. Also change all AoE attacks to only be able to use 5 spheres at max to attack, but grant them higher base damage percents.

*combo's should not be cancelled by sw but continue while still gaining combo bonuses.


Edited by Rumm, 03 November 2010 - 06:51 AM.

  • 0

#8 DrAzzy

DrAzzy

    Really Azzy? Already?

  • Ragnarok Moderator
  • 15081 posts
  • LocationNew England
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Chaos-Clandestine Society

Posted 03 November 2010 - 08:56 AM

We aren't going to get any sweeping changes like that made.

TSS and OI have been made into jokes. The cast time is way too long, and the damage output is miserable by renewal standards. They need to have their cast time drastically reduced, such that they're feasible to use to level.

Re: zen, i don't suppose it's cast time could be made to depend on the number of spheres that it's summoning? So, it would be fast when using it on a champ who already had 3 spheres up, but slower on a sura getting his full complement of 15 spheres - though the sura would have more dex and int, and you'd make the cast time only partially fixed, so the sura could get the cast off nearly as fast.
  • 1

#9 Bahlum

Bahlum

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 103 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 01:32 PM

here is a post I put up in April on iRoWiki, http://forums.irowik...&postcount=1791

It may be too late to implement all of these ideas, though perhaps some portion of this could be applied to Sura gameplay/physics. Such as having a 3rd quest skill that gives combo bonuses as described below.

You can already execute what I like to call "custom combos". Realize that each skill can have its own target and you can even Trifecta monster A, Quadruple Blow monster B and Thrust monster C. This requires some attention to finger work with the mouse and keyboard, but it is possible (and has been for a while). The biggest thing getting in the way is cast time for certain skills (Occult Impact and Throw Spirit Sphere) and not being able to perform certain skills without first performing others (like you can't Thrust w/o first having used Quad Blow, same with Fallen Empire and Dragon Combo).

Safety Wall doesn't stop combos actually, it only matters if you used the skill or not but it doesn't matter if you landed the hit. This is the same when you miss a monster due to flee or whatever, you can still use the next skill in line.

I'm not sure the skills need buffs for executing them in succession, but having Raging Quadruple Blow not depend on Trifecta or making Trifecta be an active skill (like how Dragon Combo is for the Sura "combos") would greatly improve its appeal. For that matter, the champion skill Chain Crush Combo should be executable after Raging Quadruple Blow on top of makine Trifecta an active skill or being able to execute Quadruple Blow without having to go through Trifecta. Raging Palm Strike does more DPS than Chain Crush because it doesn't require other skills to be executed before being able to use it. Chain Crush Combo requires 3 other skills to be performed on top of depending on a 25% chance to trigger the starting sequence (unless you start from root).

The only useful thing I can come up with for CCC is if a Sura has Rising dragon level 5 at least, there is an SP slave ready and at least one other Sura continually using Power Velocity on them so that they can pull of unlimited chains of CCC>Glacial Fist/Raging Thrust>CCC back to back. LOL

If the combo starting sequence for Monks and Champions were made like Dragon Combo, that would at least make the combo skill tree an acceptable choice in terms of killing efficiency.

I haven't tried to Snap in between the mandatory combo skills like RQB, Thrust, Glacial, CCC, or Fallen Empire, but it would be interesting to chase down a target while continuing a combo chain. You can already continue combo "custom" combo chains like:
Excruciating Palm>Snap/Knuckle Arrow>Windmill>Assimilate Power>Pnuma>Snap>Tiger Cannon
because those skills don't require that you execute another skill before them. (Windmill>Assimilate Power is satisfying to use on other Sura...)

Another change I do want for the Monk class is to make Throw Spirit Sphere have the selectable part of the skill change how many spheres you toss instead of the level you toss them at. Learning level 5 TSS should get you a passive buff to the skill which lets you have a 350% atk for any sphere you toss, and when you go to use the skill the level shown corresponds instead to how many spheres you are tossing. Right now you can toss just 1 sphere with an attack of 350% if you summon 1 sphere and select level 5, but thats just tedious and sometimes 1 sphere (or less than 5) is all you want to use.

On Topic about Suras:
From my testing on Yggdrasil when it was a test server, these are some things I noticed:

I had problems executing Tiger Cannon as part of the combo chain in order to get extra damage, or it did the same amount of damage as when not in the combo chain. I was able to chain Dragon Combo>Fallen Empire>Gate of Hell and notice a damage difference, but I couldn't do the same with Tiger Cannon.

Crescent Elbow seems pretty useless for the amount of skill points and levels it has. I think the way it works is theres a chance for it to trigger on a *target* enemy while you either take or receive damage (I'm not sure which since you need to be attacking something for it to be a target anyway). The buff doesn't last too long though and when it does trigger it doesn't feel like its worth the skill point investment. I imagined it would work kind of like the knight's Counter Attack without avoiding damage but its not even as useful as that...

Dragon Combo should probably have less levels (in effect buffing the skill). At level 10 its only marginally better than the monk's quest skill Excruciating Palm because that skill now has a 2 second delay, and that skill doesn't even require any skill points. 5 or 6 levels seems more appropriate.

The other skills seem fine, except I didn't test out Earth Shaker, Howling of Lion and Knuckle Arrow properly (in pvp, woe and next to a wall respectively). If there is an issue with making Dragon Combo only have 5 or 6 levels, maybe there can be slight nerfs (in the form of more levels to reach the same effects they have now) to other skills, or some of the other skills can be expanded upon to offer up more.

*I think I might be slightly dyslexic?... hope not lol*

Edited by Bahlum, 03 November 2010 - 01:37 PM.

  • 0

#10 FoxyWoxy

FoxyWoxy

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 362 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 03 November 2010 - 11:34 PM

Nothing major, it's 30 sp on use btw.
Posted Image
  • 0

#11 Pururu

Pururu

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 88 posts

Posted 04 November 2010 - 11:13 AM

Some stuff which doesn't really matter but i want to post cause it's kinda bugging me (i'm using a female sura sprite, i honestly have no idea if it's the same for the male version):

-After using windmill and not moving, the sura sprite is bugged as long as you don't move, basically your head will be cut off of your body. Beware the horsless headless sura!!!
-When using quadruple blow, my sprite becomes invisible.
-When spamming sky blow, my body will disappear, my head still floating in the air and my headgears will fly even higher.
All this combined makes me feel like i'm playing some sort of clown instead of a martial artist.
Skill wise, i found those:

-KA wall damage works in woe and against non moveable mobs (like mvp) even without a wall, actually it makes the skill good so i'm more expecting it to be a feature even if the damage could be slightly reduced (1750% spammeable ranged when in string is stupidly powerfull). Removing the wall damage from woe would be a bad idea unless vanishing point is made weaker (ka with 5 spheres at jlevel 20, 15 at like 35 without taking any mobbing skill, vp at jlevel 11 more spammable and more powerfull without wall damage would make no sense at all)
-TSS and OI are joke skills, it seems everyone figured that out so i'm not going to talk about those much.
-CC, while i think this skill is ok cause it actually make fist useable, i think it's not that fair it's possible to cast it just after snap, some sort of delay like snap -> fist could be a good idea. Even a small cast time on it could be nice :P
-Lightning walk is kinda buggy, it works on dragon breath, clashing spiral, every single aoe and single target damaging magic spell a sorcerer can use, almost the same for warlocks, kinda spammeable in strings... well my main problem is that the description actually says "single ranged or magic attack" and not "every ranged or magic aoe or not, but against some it doesn't work but the buff will be consumed"

As for zen, it's ok, cast fast enough, and with rising dragon and a max of 15 spheres it's fair in my opinion.
That's about it for now.

Edited by Pururu, 10 November 2010 - 07:18 AM.

  • 0

#12 Yarlith

Yarlith

    I am New.

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 04 November 2010 - 01:11 PM

I like most things but on the skill tree where raging trifecta lvl 10 is needed as a pre-req. I personally prefer using level 5 for increased combo chance. so if 10 is going stay pre-req can you include a level selecter to apply for the skill. That way i can meet pre req and still use level 5 trifecta
  • 0

#13 JAYRAD

JAYRAD

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 421 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:the one with the bots

Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:00 PM

for the love of god dont change anything about knuckle arrow
  • 0

#14 Clogon

Clogon

    Too Legit To Quit

  • RO Fungineering
  • 1621 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Ygg

Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:22 PM

for the love of god dont change anything about knuckle arrow


The fact that it does over 5000% per hit if a target cannot be knocked back (100% of the time in WoE...) for the cost of 1 sphere instant cast and is spammable should not be changed? Have you ever wondered why jRO outright blocked this skill from use in WoE?



I have a headache reading the ignorant and selfish posts in this forum such as this. Learn the game before complaining.
  • 0

#15 FoxyWoxy

FoxyWoxy

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 362 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:26 PM

I thought it was 1750%, how did you get over 5000?
  • 0

#16 JAYRAD

JAYRAD

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 421 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:the one with the bots

Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:40 PM

The fact that it does over 5000% per hit if a target cannot be knocked back (100% of the time in WoE...) for the cost of 1 sphere instant cast and is spammable should not be changed? Have you ever wondered why jRO outright blocked this skill from use in WoE?



I have a headache reading the ignorant and selfish posts in this forum such as this. Learn the game before complaining.

and how many different ways are there to stop it, reduce it, or screw the caster over? seems like a pretty fair move to me.
  • 0

#17 Pururu

Pururu

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 88 posts

Posted 04 November 2010 - 04:30 PM

I don't even think you go on melee either when using it in woe, it's literraly a ranged spammable cross impact, plus it makes your body disappear sometimes like sky blow.

Against mobs it's ok (like 20k with a wall and really nice gears, 10k without), it's the only decent spammable single target skill sura actually has and is only really useable at like job 30. In woe it's ridiculously good, but i'd rather see the skill staying the same in pve damage wise and adjusting it to make it good and fair in woe than nerfing the damage of it this making pve grinding for a sura even more annoying that it is already.

Edited by Pururu, 05 November 2010 - 02:59 AM.

  • 0

#18 sgvince

sgvince

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 297 posts

Posted 04 November 2010 - 06:43 PM

im not gonna put whats wrong, im just gonna put what i think it should be

ZEN - FIXED 1.5 sec cast time. people can argue that there is rising dragon, but you're forgetting the fact you cant spam RD, there is a nasty cooldown on it. and after you GF, you lose your fury and all your spheres, making RD useless because u cant use it after a GF cuz of its cooldown, your gonna have to rely to good ol' zen. with a revamp on zen cast time, it will seriously open up alot of leveling possibilities for suras because it allows suras to use lightning ride effectively.

GUILLOTINE FIST - further decrease cast time to ???? take out the "FIXED" part of it so it works on strings.

RAMPAGE BLAST - TAKE OFF the nasty delay. it doesnt make sense how it has a 5 second cast time, you cant spam it dude to the need of spheres anyways. when zen takes forever to cast. the sp consumption on the skill is very nasty as well, its a really good leveling skill and it a shame you burn through sooooo much blue potions. i spend about 50 in 30 mins. ranked.

HOWLING LION - DESCRIPTION IS COMPLETELY WRONG. skill description says 15 x 15 1500%. i think it does what most of the databases says it does. only 900% at level 5 on 9 x 9 area.

SKILL TREE: decrease the points needed for skills. you dont get hell gate until job 38. and thats only with rampage blast lvl 5 and no leveling skills, which makes alot of players rely on knuckle arrow.

DELETE POWER IMPLANTATION. waste of an important job point. and its a pre req for most of the skills. very useless in alot of scenarios. actually ITS USELESS FOR EVERYTHING

Edited by sgvince, 04 November 2010 - 06:48 PM.

  • 0

#19 RegalPrime

RegalPrime

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 104 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Ymir

Posted 04 November 2010 - 07:30 PM

Ive been trying, but they got rid of using Glacial Fist after CCC. So you can no longer do CCC->Glacial->CCC . . . . . combos.

Zen zen zen ... seriously they gave you 2 sura skills to deal with getting more spheres. I really dont see an issue with it.

Occult and Thrown spheres are totally useless even as a monk. I could do faster damage with tri-quad spam. Cast time on throw sphere is just horrendous.

Rampage blast - The sp cost was warrented back in the day when the skill did insane damage. I really dont see the need for 150sp cost per time (well sp later lvls is technically free so it might not be as big an issue as I see it now).

Skill tree is fairly stupid. On a few of my 3rd classes you can get a skill almost right away that boost your power 5x or more (and along with it your exp rate). As a sura you really dont get any skills that would do that till much much later. Actually Im not too happy with sura skills in general and how they all fit together. They just dont get you much variations on builds. Right now on my sura, im technically a combo champ with unlimited spheres and almost unlimited sp then I go on my lower lvl sorcerer and do ~12k a hit (spell fist) and have a massive neutral aoe spell (Psychic Wave).

And final note. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, do something with the fist class weapons. You either have to
1. Change the size modifier from 100/75/50 to 100/100/75(50?) (heck even if it was 100/100/100 it wouldnt be that overpowered because all the fist class weapons are lower damage/slots).
2. If your gonna keep the modifier the same, we need a high damage fist class weapon (200atk+), because in the end killing medium/large monsteres will take a chunk of the atk out of it.
3. Give fists some nice bonuses for certain weapons that would warrent using them (kinda like the combo battle glove), except put some more atk in them and less slots /// 30 atk lol

To tell you the truth, they just need to do a remake of the sura class.
  • 0

#20 Pururu

Pururu

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 88 posts

Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:15 AM

Yah, i agree that leveling a sura at low level is just plainly awefull, nothing more fun than seeing every single other class doing 20k aoe splash damage when your best leveling skills sky blow does like 3.5k or 7.5-8k with ril and is only spammable at higher level (read 26-30) for... 20k after 3 ril, there's also rampage blaster (more or less 20k) but same thing i need to be like 30+ in job, and i can't possibly get two or 3 of those without destroying a decent pvp/woe build. Plus those skills are totally useless in pvp/woe, they won't kill anyone at all.

To tell you the truth, they just need to do a remake of the sura class.

Exactly what i was thinking, the class i liked so much just feel completly wrong in almost every aspect, the class might be wrongly strong at higher level and need adjustment, but lower level is just a pain, it's making playing that class unmotivating for me at least... I guess as soon as i reach job 30 i'll get ka and rising dragon at 5 and level one mob at a time :P

Edited by Pururu, 05 November 2010 - 03:00 AM.

  • 0

#21 Theoretical

Theoretical

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 652 posts
  • LocationOrlando, Florida
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:25-Life

Posted 05 November 2010 - 02:24 AM

Don't alter the skill tree, strong skills are for later on.
  • 0

#22 Doddler

Doddler

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1027 posts
  • LocationCanada
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online

Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:09 AM

im not gonna put whats wrong, im just gonna put what i think it should be

ZEN - FIXED 1.5 sec cast time. people can argue that there is rising dragon, but you're forgetting the fact you cant spam RD, there is a nasty cooldown on it. and after you GF, you lose your fury and all your spheres, making RD useless because u cant use it after a GF cuz of its cooldown, your gonna have to rely to good ol' zen. with a revamp on zen cast time, it will seriously open up alot of leveling possibilities for suras because it allows suras to use lightning ride effectively.

GUILLOTINE FIST - further decrease cast time to ???? take out the "FIXED" part of it so it works on strings.


Zen and Guillotine Fist cast times are very intentional nerfs to the champion job. Don't forget that guillotine fist is the strongest damaging skill in the game. It deserves a 1 second cast time (0.5s in secrament). One could argue it should take even longer.


Think about it from this perspective. Before renewal, in order to gfist someone, you needed to zen, fury, zen, gfist. Lets say your champ had 100 dex, 100 int. In renewal, those stats are 75% reduction of variable (feel free to calculate cast time with this or use the formula sqrt((dex+int/2)/265)).

Pre-Renewal Zen-Fury-Zen-Fist

0.4s zen
0.0s fury
0.4s zen
0.4s fist

1.2s Total

Post Renewal Zen-Fury-Zen-Fist:
1.4s zen
0.0s fury
1.4s zen
1.25s Fist

4.05s Total

Now that would seem slow, but you're not doing it right. You have new tools at your disposal, and you should be using them. Let's break it down further.

Post Renewal Rising-Fist:

0s Rising Dragon
1.25s Fist

1.25s Total

Post Renewal Zen-Fury-Fist with Secrament:
(With rising dragon up, after casting fury you still have 10 spheres and can cast fist without a second zen)

0.7s Zen
0.75s Fist

1.45s Total

Post Renewal Rising-Fist with Secrament:

0s Rising Dragon
0.75s Fist

0.75s Total

I don't know about you, but renewal not only allows you to match your pre-renewal speed, it can even allow you to exceed it. You just aren't using the proper setup. These skills don't need a change AT ALL, I would hate for the GMs to over-react to complaints and make it even faster, in my opinion they already went too far when they shortened zen.

RAMPAGE BLAST - TAKE OFF the nasty delay. it doesnt make sense how it has a 5 second cast time, you cant spam it dude to the need of spheres anyways. when zen takes forever to cast. the sp consumption on the skill is very nasty as well, its a really good leveling skill and it a shame you burn through sooooo much blue potions. i spend about 50 in 30 mins. ranked.
SKILL TREE: decrease the points needed for skills. you dont get hell gate until job 38. and thats only with rampage blast lvl 5 and no leveling skills, which makes alot of players rely on knuckle arrow.

DELETE POWER IMPLANTATION. waste of an important job point. and its a pre req for most of the skills. very useless in alot of scenarios. actually ITS USELESS FOR EVERYTHING


Rampage blast is very high damaging, it does not need to be changed. Gate of hell is intentionally made hard to get, like the old guillotine fist. If you don't like it, don't get the skill, there are plenty of good skills available. Power Implantation gives 5 spheres, which is +25 mastery damage to anyone. That's really good, even if you don't see the value in it.

Edited by Doddler, 05 November 2010 - 07:10 AM.

  • 2

#23 Myzery

Myzery

    Too Legit To Quit

  • RO Fungineering
  • 3190 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 05 November 2010 - 12:14 PM

Zen and Guillotine Fist cast times are very intentional nerfs to the champion job. Don't forget that guillotine fist is the strongest damaging skill in the game. It deserves a 1 second cast time (0.5s in secrament). One could argue it should take even longer.


Think about it from this perspective. Before renewal, in order to gfist someone, you needed to zen, fury, zen, gfist. Lets say your champ had 100 dex, 100 int. In renewal, those stats are 75% reduction of variable (feel free to calculate cast time with this or use the formula sqrt((dex+int/2)/265)).

Pre-Renewal Zen-Fury-Zen-Fist

0.4s zen
0.0s fury
0.4s zen
0.4s fist

1.2s Total

Post Renewal Zen-Fury-Zen-Fist:
1.4s zen
0.0s fury
1.4s zen
1.25s Fist

4.05s Total

Now that would seem slow, but you're not doing it right. You have new tools at your disposal, and you should be using them. Let's break it down further.

Post Renewal Rising-Fist:

0s Rising Dragon
1.25s Fist

1.25s Total

Post Renewal Zen-Fury-Fist with Secrament:
(With rising dragon up, after casting fury you still have 10 spheres and can cast fist without a second zen)

0.7s Zen
0.75s Fist

1.45s Total

Post Renewal Rising-Fist with Secrament:

0s Rising Dragon
0.75s Fist

0.75s Total

I don't know about you, but renewal not only allows you to match your pre-renewal speed, it can even allow you to exceed it. You just aren't using the proper setup. These skills don't need a change AT ALL, I would hate for the GMs to over-react to complaints and make it even faster, in my opinion they already went too far when they shortened zen.



Rampage blast is very high damaging, it does not need to be changed. Gate of hell is intentionally made hard to get, like the old guillotine fist. If you don't like it, don't get the skill, there are plenty of good skills available. Power Implantation gives 5 spheres, which is +25 mastery damage to anyone. That's really good, even if you don't see the value in it.



Rampage blaster does bad damage now compared to what it used to do.
Have you actually tested it recently? It's not really viable anywhere and is only worth using imo with god items.
  • 0

#24 Clogon

Clogon

    Too Legit To Quit

  • RO Fungineering
  • 1621 posts
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Ygg

Posted 05 November 2010 - 04:09 PM

How is a 3750% skill BAD? Before it was absolutely BROKEN! there is no point in comparing with a 11250% skill that is cappable of wiping guilds in 1 hit every 10 seconds.

Why don't you compare it to "balanced" skills with similar function like

Ignition Break 2250% in a 3x3 AoE using FIRE weapon with a 2s casting time and a 2s cooldown or
Storm Blast 4000%, if the RK has 120 total INT, in a 7x7 AoE with a 2 second casting time a 1s cooldown and is a RUNE which costs Zeny and is limited to 20 uses unless they go to kafra (If they use kafra cards then it will cost real $)?

Though RB is bad DPS but it is high enough burst to level quite well in PVM after you have weakened the mob with Sky net blow.
  • 0

#25 Brindizer

Brindizer

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 444 posts
  • LocationDuluth
  • Playing:Ragnarok Online
  • Server:Ymir

Posted 05 November 2010 - 06:04 PM

I would like to see Dragon Combo given a damage boost if used after Trifecta. It's possible right now, but provides no bonus.
It's also worth mentioning that level 10 Dragon Combo barely outdamages Quadruple Blow, if at all.

I feel as if a soul link should decrease the SP cost of Dragon Combo and Fallen Empire as well, as it would provide a use over the Crush tree.

One of my life long dreams has been crushed as I can't do Glacier Fist > Chain Crush > Glacier Fist chains anymore. With 15 spheres, I'd be so happy if I could Crush someone with my mighty Chains over and over again.

I feel as if Sky Net Blow is really underwhelming. The damage even with very high agility is pretty underwhelming. Its main utility right now is to push mobs away from you.

Edit: Someone told me Power Absorption no longer absorbs SP from monsters. Is this true? If it is, why?

Edited by Brindizer, 05 November 2010 - 06:08 PM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users