142 replies to this topic

[Wizard]

Quite a lot of people has been asking me for stats/build advice and I always tell them the same to each of him...

"Stats and builds are related to each player, it depends mostly of personal preference and such..."

But it was wrong from my part asking most players to achieve something w/o even giving an example of what they should be aiming to... hence the reason behind this thread.

The screenshot I gonna present to you guys, is from one of my warlocks I use for test... and the MATK you will see is the one I had until last week (every week I try to improve my MATK output and I did managed to increase it for quite a bit) and I would like for you guys to use it as a "short term goal" so you guys know what to aim to...



As before, I'm not going to give you the STATS or equipment need it to get such MATK, but if people are interested, I can suggest some gears in the near future in this very own thread.

Just for people who are wandering how much MATK is that... well, just apply the formula...

MaxMATK = 544*0.4 + 544 + 402 = 1163.6 matk.

As you see, that's your MaxMATK and remember that is based on stats, gear and food... it does not include Miscellaneous and/or musician's buffs as well as %MATK (raw and towards race) including Mystical Amplification.

If you use Amp all the time for casting, you would have: MaxMATK * 1.5 = 1163.6 * 1.5 = 1745.4matk

After that, it will depend on your %matk and you can get up to +5,430matk... and after that, you multiply by the spell itself.

Any doubts... don't hesitate on post here... and hope people find this somehow useful.

[SergioSSA1LER]

Nice initiative Haseo :3
Just one question, I see you used several foods, I know you wont give me the exact names, but how much zeny does it cost to keep those stats for 1hr?

[DrAzzy]

Are any temporary effects (buffs or foods) being used which do not increase matk?

(Ex, agiup, or foods for stats that don't increase matk)

[Wizard]

I just used +10 and +20 food along to aco buffs since those are the only buffs that show up on stat windows.

There are several other "buffs" that adds MATK either %matk or +matk but sadly those don't show up on stat windows hence why I didn't used them on this screenshot but it does influence in good amount for end damage (some are added as weapon matk before multiplying against weapon level).

EDIT: I'm not using any god/MvP items, hence I believe, normal players can also try to achieve this MATK if they decide to "invest" in this class.

EDIT 2: Regarding a price for buffs... dunno, I do have like 3k of each +20 food on storage so I don't worry about buying them lol (got them from kafra boxes a while ago... same for amp scrolls in which I have around 12k or so xD).

Edited by Wizard, 09 January 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[CeruleanGamer]

ITT: Someone who's a fan of High School DxD

[Azyrk]

Where did you get that formula for matk? I don't see it here: http://irowiki.org/wiki/MATK
I don't understand the purpose of the (wMatk+eMatk)*4. And I assume you take this Max matk then multiply the % modifier. For example, bryn and KK pom would be (MaxMatk)*1.1*1.18. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[zr0rieu]

"All %MATK equipments and skills stack multiplicatively" should really be rephrased as "%MATK from equipments and %MATK from skills stack multiplicatively". Using your example of Bryn and KK pom with mystical amp, it'd be like this

(Min ~ Max) * 1.12 (Pure %MATK) * 1.16 (demi human %MATK) * 1.5 (MA)

This formula is not 100% accurate but it's the most accurate formula atm.

edit: I edited the page on irowiki to reword the whole thing.

Edited by zr0rieu, 10 January 2013 - 03:57 AM.

[Azyrk]

Oh I see. Thanks for that clarification. So, using Haseo's matk and most his gear for an example:

Pure Matk: Bryn (10%), KK (2%), Ninja Scroll (1%), Accessories (~14%), Arrogant Shoes (10%) = 37%
Demihuman: Pom (16%), +13 GSoD (28%), Arrogant Shoes (50%) = 94%

(1163.6)*1.37(Pure Matk%)*1.94(Demihuman%)*1.5(Amp) = 4638matk. Is this correct?

Edited by Azyrk, 10 January 2013 - 05:19 AM.

[kingjoe547]

Hey guys i just need your opinion on something, I currently have 100m, staff of destruction spell 2 spell 2, TSOD, and a skull cap. I am planning to buy a +0 COD(cant afford a +9). So im wondering should i +10 my TSOD to lvl and TI while im gathering the zeny and sell the TSOD later when i have around 150m?

Edit: how much is a COD anyway(not to say the ragial price cause i know the ppl vended there doesnt know the real price)

Edited by kingjoe547, 10 January 2013 - 05:22 AM.

[Wizard]

Oh I see. Thanks for that clarification. So, using Haseo's matk and most his gear for an example:

Pure Matk: Bryn (10%), KK (2%), Ninja Scroll (1%), Accessories (~14%), Arrogant Shoes (10%) = 37%
Demihuman: Pom (16%), +13 GSoD (28%), Arrogant Shoes (50%) = 94%

(1163.6)*1.37(Pure Matk%)*1.94(Demihuman%)*1.5(Amp) = 4638matk. Is this correct?

The formula is correct but the %matk is not...

My MATK is as follows:

- Pure %MATK = 52%
- Demihuman %MATK = 100%

So it would be as follows:

1163.6 * 1.52 * 2.00 * 1.5 = 5306.02matk

I'm not taking into consideration other miscellaneous MATK modifiers such as some items, and musician's buffs...

[Azyrk]

I see. I was just using an example to make sure i understand the formula correctly. Thanks.

But I still don't understand (.4)(gear Matk) + sMatk + (gear matk). Is that formula a derivation of something or posted elsewhere? Because the wiki Matk page says

The formula for calculating magic attack is: MATK = (sMATK + wMATK + eMATK) * Multiplicative Modifiers

[Riakuta]

I see. I was just using an example to make sure i understand the formula correctly. Thanks.

But I still don't understand (.4)(gear Matk) + sMatk + (gear matk). Is that formula a derivation of something or posted elsewhere? Because the wiki Matk page says

Weapon MATK is derived from player's weapon. This is the only portion in MATK that varies depending on the weapon level and refinement rate. Also wMATK tends to play the biggest role in your total MATK as it is the easiest to increase.
Formula

Weapon MATK = (Base Weapon MATK + Variance + Refinement Bonus)

• Variance = ± 0.1 * Weapon Level * Base Weapon MATK

• Refinement Bonus = See refinement effects

Variance is a random number ranging from (-10% * Weapon Level * Base Weapon MATK) to (10% * Weapon Level * Base Weapon MATK)

He is referring to the weapon variance and using the maximum output when he says + (0.4 x 544) - (0.1 * Weapon Level * (Total Weapon MATK (Excluding Refinement Bonus) + Equipment Matk))

(0.05 * Weapon Level * Base Weapon ATK) - ATK Variance
(0.1 * Weapon Level * (Total Weapon MATK (Excluding Refinement Bonus) + Equipment Matk)) - MATK Variance

Edited by Riakuta, 10 January 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[NeoNilox]

MaxMATK = 544*0.4 + 544 + 402 = 1163.6 matk.

Unless my head is boiling already, I often think the formula should have been written like this:

MaxMATK = 402 + (544*1.4) = 1163.6 matk.

Why 1.4? Because He's wielding a Lv4 Weapon, it means the Weap Matk varies in +-40%.

But I'm sure there's something missing... The refinement bonus...

Let's say he's wielding a +14 some weapon, where my theory goes as:

• Atk & Matk + 98 (Standard refinement bonus, each +1 = Atk & Matk +7)
• Atk & Matk + 1 ~ 140 (Over Upgrade bonus, each +1 past +4 = Atk & Matk + 0 ~ 14). Neither shown in stat window nor affected by Power Maximize/Recognized Spell. That's why some Crit hits still vary.

Also, as far as I know, ONLY Weapon Matk is affected by Variance, not Equip Matk nor Refinement Bonus. Unless something has changed in my absence...

The following is JUST assumption, so it's VERY likely I'm wrong at this: I don't know why I feel that Status Matk is... rather high too... Let's see:

You already got Matk +37 from your base level, so where is the other Matk 365 from? Let's see... Your Crit is 55 in your stat window. Supposing you don't have any Crit+ equip, you should have around Total LUK 162 ~ 164. If it were to be true, that's already Matk + 54. Still have to find the other Matk 311.

Hit 495: from the LUK I had presumed, there's Hit + 54 too, so there's Hit 441 without LUK. Then your Base Lv150, leaving the rest in Hit 291. Hit formula includes +175, so it leaves the remaining value in 116. This makes me think the estimated DEX is around 116... That's... Matk + 23 *poker face*. Still remains Matk 288.

Then, the INT... I've got the hunch the base INT in there is 120, plus several bonuses around, like Job Level or such (INT+11 at Job Lv50)...

I just used +10 and +20 food along to aco buffs since those are the only buffs that show up on stat windows.

I can say there's the other INT+40 (Stat food 10, Geneticist's INT food, Blessing 10). I cannot say for sure there's Total INT 171 (I'm sure as... that there's more), so from that INT there's around Matk + 256.


...Oh boi *steamed head*

And regarding the Multiplicative Mods... all of the +Matk% from different categories (Demi-Human, General, etc) stack multiplicatively?

[Azyrk]

Wow that is some impressive detective work there neo lmao. But his sMatk is possible. I reach around 400 on my WL too

And yes tomato I had a similar thought too, but since the formula is (sMatk+wMatk+eMatk)*MM, and wMatk is calculated with the variance, how can you just lump eMatk into that? Like the variance calculation should already be calculated into the wMatk, not (wMatk+eMatk).

Edited by Azyrk, 10 January 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[Riakuta]

Wow that is some impressive detective work there neo lmao. But his sMatk is possible. I reach around 400 on my WL too

And yes tomato I had a similar thought too, but since the formula is (sMatk+wMatk+eMatk)*MM, and wMatk is calculated with the variance, how can you just lump eMatk into that? Like the variance calculation should already be calculated into the wMatk, not (wMatk+eMatk).

I've been sleeping during the night and awake during the day my schedule is screwed up and so is my mind. I've deleted several posts so far because I wasn't thinking clearly and I'm on the edge of my seat...

[Wizard]

The formula for Max MATK is as follow:

Max MATK = (sMatk + wMatk + eMatk)*%matk

as far as I remember...

But...

wMatk = (Weapon Level * 0.1*Weapon Matk) + Weapon Matk

Assuming you have Recognized Spell to try to reach MaxMatk.

What I did was just combine both formulas and re-arrange them since it's way too easier like that... of course, I haven't included the Matk bonus from upgrade since it can't be determinate and it doesn't show up on stat windows.

@ Neo: There's a reason why I left HIT & CRITICAL visible =)

[Azyrk]

The formula for Max MATK is as follow:

Max MATK = (sMatk + wMatk + eMatk)*%matk

as far as I remember...

But...

wMatk = (Weapon Level * 0.1*Weapon Matk) + Weapon Matk

Assuming you have Recognized Spell to try to reach MaxMatk.

What I did was just combine both formulas and re-arrange them since it's way too easier like that... of course, I haven't included the Matk bonus from upgrade since it can't be determinate and it doesn't show up on stat windows.

@ Neo: There's a reason why I left HIT & CRITICAL visible =)

Okay, well then the total formula should be:

[sMatk + (BaseWeapMatk + BaseWeapMatk*WeaponLvl*0.1) + eMatk]*Modifiers

Question: What does it mean by base weapon matk? Does that mean before upgrade? So in the example of Glorious destruction staff, before any upgrades its 210. At +12 I think it's something around 298. Which number? 298 probably, yeah?

Either way, I think there is a small flaw in your formula, Haseo. I don't think order of operations allows you to do that.

So it should be:

[402 + (298 +298*4*0.1) + 246]*1.52 * 2.00 * 1.5 = 4041.98 matk (Assuming RC)

Eh, this particular formula isn't 100% accurate since the modifiers and weapon don't actually match up completely but the idea is there. And also the refine bonus is not included for reasons already stated. That's a whole other mess in itself.

The eMatk (246) was obtained from simply taking the 544 in the status window and subtracting the base weapon matk (for those who didn't catch that already).

I guess the crappy status window is partly to blame. Would be nice if we could have a more advanced view of what we're working with.
Main point here is you can't push ematk into the wMatk formula like that.

Let me know if my math is wrong. I hardly ever touch game mechanics mathematically.

Edited by Azyrk, 10 January 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[NeoNilox]

...I don't think so...

Variance = ± 0.1 * Weapon Level * Base Weapon MATK

I'm Pretty Sure that "Base Weapon MATK" is exactly what it says. Weap Matk 280 in case of Staff of Destruction. Which I presume that's the only portion affected by Variance.

The rest has to come from Refinement Bonus (NOT the Over or High Hyper Upgrade) and/or Equip MATK.

It's very likely he's wielding an SoD since the Weapon + Equip Atk in there is pretty high too.

[Riakuta]

...I don't think so...



I'm Pretty Sure that "Base Weapon MATK" is exactly what it says. Weap Matk 280 in case of Staff of Destruction. Which I presume that's the only portion affected by Variance.

The rest has to come from Refinement Bonus (NOT the Over or High Hyper Upgrade) and/or Equip MATK.

It's very likely he's wielding an SoD since the Weapon + Equip Atk in there is pretty high too.

Okay assume hes using the Staff of Destruction then I would also assume that it is +12 with Spell 4 Spell 4 enchants meaning.

544 - 364 = 180 Equipment Matk
180 - 30 (Spell 4 Spell 4) = 150 Equipment Matk
150 - 50 (Heroic Backpack) = 100 Equipment Matk
100 - 100 (Odin's Power Level 2) = 0 Equipment Matk

So his actual Matk would be (402 + (364 + 364*0.4) +180) x 1.52 x 2.00 x 1.5 = 4977.696 Matk

Again I'm not thinking clearly so probably only the formula might be correct or not.

Edited by Riakuta, 10 January 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[Azyrk]

Whether or not he is using an SoD or not is irrelevant. In this case, he was, but it is still possible (and quite easy) to get ~ 400 + 500 without one.

And Tomato I have no idea what you're trying to get at with your last post. Why the EC card? wtf? lol

[Wizard]

I wasn't using any god/mvps lol...

I can easily get more than that if I use gods/mvps but I don't have those and is not common hence it won't be useful as example.

PS; Also, the amount that you multiply against weapon upgrade is what it shows on the right side of the matk window... hence in this case it would be 544*0.4 + 504 = 761.6.

Edited by Wizard, 10 January 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Azyrk]

Ok, what I'm getting at is that 544 is made up of 2 different types of Matk, so you cannot just multiply them by something in the wMatk formula.

Wiki says its (sMatk + wMatk + eMatk)*Multiplier

eMatk would be things like HBP, Odin, and Rata glasses. So only your weapon's base matk needs to be multiplied by the .4, and then that value (wMatk) is added to the other two values (sMatk, eMatk).

The formula says WeaponBaseMatk. You don't add in your Odin and HBP matk to that. That doesn't make sense. @_@

[Riakuta]

I have never had the Odin's Power buff so I wouldn't think of that at all...

This sound more accurate then?

544 - 364 = 180 Equipment Matk
180 - 30 (Spell 4 Spell 4) = 150 Equipment Matk
150 - 50 (Heroic Backpack) = 100 Equipment Matk
100 - 100 (Odin's Power Level 2) = 0 Equipment Matk

So his actual Matk would be (402 + (364 + 364*0.4) +180) x 1.52 x 2.00 x 1.5 = 4977.696 Matk

[Wizard]

Ok, what I'm getting at is that 544 is made up of 2 different types of Matk, so you cannot just multiply them by something in the wMatk formula.

Wiki says its (sMatk + wMatk + eMatk)*Multiplier

eMatk would be things like HBP, Odin, and Rata glasses. So only your weapon's base matk needs to be multiplied by the .4, and then that value (wMatk) is added to the other two values (sMatk, eMatk).

The formula says WeaponBaseMatk. You don't add in your Odin and HBP matk to that. That doesn't make sense. @_@

eMatk are not like that... eMatk are the ones that you can't see in stat windows such as musician buffs, box of drowsiness and such... weapon matk counts as the whole number in your right side of the stat window...

I did test it long ago and got something similar.

[Wizard]

Ohh you can use pets as well for mark output