24 replies to this topic

[Zherot]

I saw video of earth drive post balance and that guy that uses it deals a lot of damage with that skill, he is using an imperial shield, but i make a simulation on the iro stat calculator and i cant achieve to make the damage that high...

Also, in the stat calculator it apears that its damage its influenced by the element of the weapon, i dont know if its bad implemented on the calculator since the description says it is earth property.

Edited by Zherot, 18 January 2013 - 08:24 PM.

[SaintMichael]

I saw video of earth drive post balance and that guy that uses it deals a lot of damage with that skill, he is using an imperial shield, but i make a simulation on the iro stat calculator and i cant achieve to make the damage that high...

Also, in the stat calculator it apears that its damage its influenced by the element of the weapon, i dont know if its bad implemented on the calculator since the description says it is earth property.

How high was the damage? Also did you include in the calculator buffs such as inspiration, shield spell lvl 1, genetic foods, and a +9-12 glorious spear? Earthdrive does earth property damage no matter what, nobody really uses earth property armor though so i wouldn't be to worried about it.

[Diazpo]

Damage is greatly affected by shield weight, with Imperial Shield having 250 weight means 1500% damage and that he's most likely level 150 which then makes it 2250%. Like SaintMichael said he could be under Inspiration, Shield Spell, stat foods and is using the KVM spear, if not then its probably a Brocca which ignores defense.

The stat calculator is outdated as it doesnt include the earth property, no matter what weapon element you use Earth Drive is always earth property.

Earth Drive

Variable Cast Time: 1 second
Skill re-use Delay: (8 - 1 * Skill Level) seconds
Global Skill Delay: 1 second
AoE: Level 1 ~ 2: 3x3
Level 3 ~ 4: 5x5
Level 5: 7x7
ATK [{(Skill Level + 1) x Shield Weight} x Caster’s Base Level / 100] %
DEF and ASPD decreased: 25%
Duration: (Skill Level x 3) seconds
Shield break chance: (Skill Level) %

Practical uses in PVP/WoE is not purely to deal damage but its the ability to reduce attack speed, reveal hidden enemies, destroy the enemies Magnetic Earth and Thorn Traps. But if you're lucky they could be wearing wind armor and which case you'll do even more damage.

[Zherot]

Thx for the answers i really appreciate the help, so if i put lvl 5 earth drive it would b better than put lvl 5 cannon spear?, i like to have more than 1 ability to deal with diferent situations, and i liked the AoE of earth drive it looks usefull for the area that it uses, not like cannon spear that only affects a straight line and is still ranged... and earth drive dont.

The damage i saw was max 49k with that skill on vanberks and isillas, in magma dungeon he was doing like 20k damage, he was one shoting every mob with earth drive.

[CeruleanGamer]

You don't use Earth Drive for the damage though. It's way too impractical and Overbrand just accomplishes the task much easier if you need to do AoE damage.

You would probably leave it at level 3 for the 5x5 area effect instead of 3x3 at level 2. You can max it but like most 3rd classes, skill points are just too precious to throw around.

[Diazpo]

The damage i saw was max 49k with that skill on vanberks and isillas, in magma dungeon he was doing like 20k damage, he was one shoting every mob with earth drive.

Haha, he must be using a Glorious Spear against the Vanberks. Oh and I found a more updated stat calculator/character simulator: http://web.jellyupload.com/calc/

I've tested its accuracy but it still doesn't add earth property so you have to manually set the weapon's element to earth.

Here's a sample set-up on how that RG managed to do that kind of damage:
(Note that damage is maximized at level 150 but considering that you might want to level with Earth Drive I've set the base level to 120)







From this point-of-view, Earth Drive works better because of the large 7x7 AoE where you just bash the ground when they surround you, unlike Overbrand you have to move around and line them up nice and tight hoping you'll finish them off all in one blow.

But you have to consider the gears he uses are very expensive and can be very hard to acquire for average players early on, especially the over-upgraded KVM weapon and the Imperial Guard.

Leveling can be hard when you don't have the right skills with the right tools, also be prepared as Overbrand and Earth Drive are interruptible so you'll be needing your phen/orleans. And as CeruleanGamer said, skill points are invaluable and highly limited that if you're planning to be an offensive type you have to skip some of the supportive skills and vice versa, and while some skills are useful for leveling they're not that useful for WoE/PvP.

...so if i put lvl 5 earth drive it would b better than put lvl 5 cannon spear?, i like to have more than 1 ability to deal with diferent situations, and i liked the AoE of earth drive it looks usefull for the area that it uses, not like cannon spear that only affects a straight line and is still ranged... and earth drive dont.

Here's a guide by EvilLoynis, its for those who haven't played a 3rd class character before:
http://forums.warppo...ass-job-levels/

Personally, I chose Overbrand for early leveling and plan to use Spear Cannon and Earth Drive on higher levels and use the free reset when I reach level 150.
Its still experimental and skill usage is highly situational, but for most high level monsters(ones that have very high HP like those in the high TI and can't be 1-shotted with Overbrand):
I'd lure them together, fire Spear Cannon, Earth Drive to slow down their attack speed, and overbrand away for a high damage finisher.
[It's possible to a do a quick 1-2 punch with spear cannon from afar as you can use another skill right away such overband when the monsters close-in on you]

In the case of teleporting/flywing leveling inside the TI map, I'd use Earth Drive or Overbrand first depending on the number of mobs and then try to move away to a safe spot before grouping them and using the combo.

Edited by Diazpo, 20 January 2013 - 06:02 PM.

[Zherot]

Very helpfull, right now im wondering where to put some points i saved from paladin, as im only getting lvl 5 spear quicken since it dosent add all that much damage to over brand and in lvl 5 the duration its good (you have the same aspd bonus for all lvls).

Edit: Unfurtunately i can only get earth drive or spear cannon at full, if i get spear cannon ful i only get lvl 2 earth drive.

Edited by Zherot, 20 January 2013 - 06:56 PM.

[CeruleanGamer]

From this point-of-view, Earth Drive works better because of the large 7x7 AoE where you just bash the ground when they surround you, unlike Overbrand you have to move around and line them up nice and tight hoping you'll finish them off all in one blow.

But you have to consider the gears he uses are very expensive and can be very hard to acquire for average players early on, especially the over-upgraded KVM weapon and the Imperial Guard.

Leveling can be hard when you don't have the right skills with the right tools, also be prepared as Overbrand and Earth Drive are interruptible so you'll be needing your phen/orleans. And as CeruleanGamer said, skill points are invaluable and highly limited that if you're planning to be an offensive type you have to skip some of the supportive skills and vice versa, and while some skills are useful for leveling they're not that useful for WoE/PvP.

Great post but RGs have Endure and have a mount for higher movement. Getting out of a hitlock with mobs and lining them up for Overbrand isn't that hard. If you're in a map with narrow paths like Scaraba Hall, Overbrand shines like real money with the additional wall damage to the point Scarabs can't use Stone skin and get 1 shotted.

Edited by CeruleanGamer, 20 January 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[ilovemilk]

Haha, he must be using a Glorious Spear against the Vanberks. Oh and I found a more updated stat calculator/character simulator: http://web.jellyupload.com/calc/

I've tested its accuracy but it still doesn't add earth property so you have to manually set the weapon's element to earth.

Here's a sample set-up on how that RG managed to do that kind of damage:
(Note that damage is maximized at level 150 but considering that you might want to level with Earth Drive I've set the base level to 120)







From this point-of-view, Earth Drive works better because of the large 7x7 AoE where you just bash the ground when they surround you, unlike Overbrand you have to move around and line them up nice and tight hoping you'll finish them off all in one blow.

But you have to consider the gears he uses are very expensive and can be very hard to acquire for average players early on, especially the over-upgraded KVM weapon and the Imperial Guard.

Leveling can be hard when you don't have the right skills with the right tools, also be prepared as Overbrand and Earth Drive are interruptible so you'll be needing your phen/orleans. And as CeruleanGamer said, skill points are invaluable and highly limited that if you're planning to be an offensive type you have to skip some of the supportive skills and vice versa, and while some skills are useful for leveling they're not that useful for WoE/PvP.




Here's a guide by EvilLoynis, its for those who haven't played a 3rd class character before:
http://forums.warppo...ass-job-levels/

Personally, I chose Overbrand for early leveling and plan to use Spear Cannon and Earth Drive on higher levels and use the free reset when I reach level 150.
Its still experimental and skill usage is highly situational, but for most high level monsters(ones that have very high HP like those in the high TI and can't be 1-shotted with Overbrand):
I'd lure them together, fire Spear Cannon, Earth Drive to slow down their attack speed, and overbrand away for a high damage finisher.
[It's possible to a do a quick 1-2 punch with spear cannon from afar as you can use another skill right away such overband when the monsters close-in on you]

In the case of teleporting/flywing leveling inside the TI map, I'd use Earth Drive or Overbrand first depending on the number of mobs and then try to move away to a safe spot before grouping them and using the combo.

Wow thanks for taking the time to do that. I never knew that earth dive could do so much damage. I'd love to see more RG use it in TI parties.

[Diazpo]

Very helpfull, right now im wondering where to put some points i saved from paladin, as im only getting lvl 5 spear quicken since it dosent add all that much damage to over brand and in lvl 5 the duration its good (you have the same aspd bonus for all lvls).

Edit: Unfurtunately i can only get earth drive or spear cannon at full, if i get spear cannon ful i only get lvl 2 earth drive.

Ah in that case you have to decide whether you want to play solo to Spear Cannon mobs before using Overbrand or mostly go with TI parties where Earth Drive helps alot by slowing down surrounding mobs while keeping them all in one place unlike Overbrand.

Great post but RGs have Endure and have a mount for higher movement. Getting out of a hitlock with mobs and lining them up for Overbrand isn't that hard. If you're in a map with narrow paths like Scaraba Hall, Overbrand shines like real money with the additional wall damage to the point Scarabs can't use Stone skin and get 1 shotted.

Haha, yeah saw that vid too, but sadly you won't have the luxury of fighting in a enclosed space all the time and some worthwhile hunting areas like the Dimensional Gorge (Diabolous Manteau/Ring) got mobs that can do 2hits/s all in the vast open spaces.
[You can exchange DiaMants for 4 random safe to 7 certs in eden, DiaRings are one of the best slotted accesories and sells for alot of money]

Wow thanks for taking the time to do that. I never knew that earth dive could do so much damage. I'd love to see more RG use it in TI parties.

You're welcome, although its really hard to do that kind of damage plus there's a small risk in damaging your shield unless if its unbreakable like the Sacred Mission which in turn lowers your damage because it weighs less.
But it works great as a supportive skill where you slow down those mobs that surround the healers/casters.

[Zherot]

I need to think hard on what to choose but i think its better to have 2 atacks than only one, and depend on it all the time (over brand)... but i did some calculations and the damage of spear cannon its not at all impresive and cant be up a lot, earth drive in the other hand can be pumped a lot, the only downside its that earth drive its forced earth, and spear cannon not.

[Diazpo]

There is also the small chance to damage your shield (or do less damage with the unbreakable Sacred Mission) and the 1 sec animation delay where you can't attack or use any skills. Also you'll get attacked more often because of the animation delay (unless if you can 1-shot them all with Earth Drive).

Spear Cannon indeed does lesser damage but you can chain another skill right away, so if monsters can 2-shotted this way instead of using 2 Overbrands which scatters them, or for you to lure them to a wall everytime, it really saves alot of time leveling.

Edited by Diazpo, 21 January 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[SaintMichael]

I'm not sure if this will help but heres the two offensive RG builds that I made:

1st: Inspiration RG, http://irowiki.org/~...n1GD1rfrnbqkAIn

2nd: Shield RG, http://irowiki.org/~...bnqs1rsrnbdraIn

The first one is used for pvm, pvp, and mvp, while the shield RG build can be used for pvm, its made more for pvp, because its made to take out low vit high flee classes like SCs and Guillotines. Hence the reason why you max out shield press and earthdrive, earthdrive will reveal any GCs or SCs, lower their defence and attack speed, while shield press will have a 72% chance to stun as long as they don't have 100 vit. Even then though they will take 22k worth of damage, 41k under the effects of inspiration, with a +12 imperial guard. Of course this also depends what reduction gear they're wearing. My first RG build is pretty straight forward use: provoke, PPA lvl 4 to break armor, moonslash, earth drive, overbrand, then VP. The combination changes depending what class your facing of course.

If your going to be lvling then i suggest u use the first build I made, since its the best for solo pvm and mvp. Also as far as other paladin skills go to throw ur points in u may want to look at gloria dominia for sp draining people in pvp. Feel free to change what you like, offensive RGs aren't nearly as complicated as Offensive Paladins. Just remember whenever your making a RG build you have to always include either Inspiration or Banding, Inspiration if your a lone wolf(pvp) and Banding if your a team player(woe). Also never include skills that contradict an offensive or defensive RG build, what I mean by that is don't throw prestige with an Inspiration build, or overbrand with a sac and banding build. Prestige doesn't work while under the effects of Inspiration, and if your using a sac with banding build you don't want to be rushing into an enemy guild, trying to overbrand everyone, while dragging ur teammates with you or leaving them behind and defenceless. Especially when you could support them by creating a choke point with battle chant, or casting gloria dominia from afar, or earthdriving empirium breakers.

I won't really bother mentioning gears since thats all really been answered by Diazpo, Ilovemilk and others, but I will say that I strongly urge getting a creamy card, smokie card, horong card, and phen card. Throw them all into a clip and hot key them so you can teleport, hide, cast sight, and not have a spell interrupted at a finger tip.
Also if you need money check out this thread: http://forums.warppo...h-or-die-tryin/.

Edited by SaintMichael, 21 January 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[GuardianTK]

https://docs.google....U_yowFbzEh5n3I4


Be sure you refer to the formulas from the Balance Patches in the above linked page.

Maximum shield break chance is 5% at Lv5. The skill delay will also depend on what level it is on. At max level it would take you 3 seconds as opposed to the 5 seconds on level 3.

@SaintMichael: You are sorely mistaken if you think SC's have "low Vit." Any class that has less than 100 Vit at max level isn't worth taking into PvP/WoE. You probably mean low defenses, which is something many bad GX would have if they default katar all the time. SC will most certainly have their shields on at all times, unless you break them.

Why would you break someone's armor with PPA4 when you can break it with 100% chance of success with Shield Spell 3 anyways? That's a waste when you'd be better off breaking shields with PPA. Any RG would be better off keeping PPA at either 3 or 5, but never at 4.

[SaintMichael]

@SaintMichael: You are sorely mistaken if you think SC's have "low Vit." Any class that has less than 100 Vit at max level isn't worth taking into PvP/WoE. You probably mean low defenses, which is something many bad GX would have if they default katar all the time. SC will most certainly have their shields on at all times, unless you break them.

Why would you break someone's armor with PPA4 when you can break it with 100% chance of success with Shield Spell 3 anyways? That's a waste when you'd be better off breaking shields with PPA. Any RG would be better off keeping PPA at either 3 or 5, but never at 4.

I know that SCs have 100 vit in case you didn't notice i put "even if they have 100 vit they'll still be taking around 22k damage" that was without reductions of course. No I meant low vit, you'd be suprised to see how many people think they can get away with less than 100...

You would use lvl 4 PPA attack to break someones armor opposed to using shield spell lvl 3 is that you don't get the attack bonus from shield spell 1, which is 130 with a rosa shield. I'd much rather have the chances of a coin flip to break their armor knowing that I have an extra 130 attack. I'm pretty sure that the shield spell 3 100% armor breaking chance will be getting nerfed eventually as well, so best prepare for the future. Also lvl 5 PPA is kinda useless against anyone with a kvm weapon since you can't break it, but if your faced against someone with a woe weapon then maybe it'd be useful. I guess it all really comes down to preferences.

[GuardianTK]

Only baddies make a 150 character with less than 100vit, which aren't worth mentioning in any PvP/WoE equation.

It's been more than a year since we put in the Balance Patch, which was supposed to take out Shield Spell3's 100% Armor Break chance. Confirmed as a bug a year ago, but it'll probably be several more years before they even think to put in a fix. Lv5 PPA is indeed useless against people who use KVM weapons, but that's a few classes and cases to consider. The majority are wearing CK's in WoE for reduction's sake, especially SC's. The thing about Shield Spell 3 is that it breaks any person's armor by 100% chance regardless if they are being protected by things like Praef/Safety Wall/Pneuma/etc. It even works with physical attack AoE's like Overbrand on several targets at once! It stacks with PPA. I've had RG's break both my shield and armor at the same time when I'm not wearing FCP after a single PPA! RK's running around in WoE will be wearing Mailbreakers/CK's while casting DB.

In WoE, you should never be an attack type RG, because you'll never kill anyone that's prepared, even with Inspiration and the attack buff from Shield Spell.

Regarding your shield build, I don't see the reason behind your recommended shield build. Rapid Smiting and Shield Boomerang really don't need to be maxed, because they won't help you do much in any situation. There's several other skills you can invest your points into, like more points into Shield Reflect or Guard, if you keep Shield Boomerang at 3 and not get Rapid Smiting. Placing 3rd class skill points into useless Trans skills is also a no-no, which is what you did in your shield build. I'd have put it into PPA to max it. Chance to break CK's is a pretty good way of making sure you're reducing your opponent's reductions. Remember that the minimum reduction you should assume for any character in PvP/WoE is 30% from a Cranial shield. From there you consider what headgears they might be using, which should always be a minimum of an extra 10% (16% if it's a +12 CEB/RPB). That's 40% reduction, not including WoE reductions of 40%. CK offers 10% on top of that. WoE Sets easily tack on a ton more reduction as well. Provoke is useful, but it won't affect damage reduction gears. Your best bet is to destroy as many gears as you can before you even attempt to attack someone in WoE.

[SaintMichael]

Only baddies make a 150 character with less than 100vit, which aren't worth mentioning in any PvP/WoE equation.

It's been more than a year since we put in the Balance Patch, which was supposed to take out Shield Spell3's 100% Armor Break chance. Confirmed as a bug a year ago, but it'll probably be several more years before they even think to put in a fix. Lv5 PPA is indeed useless against people who use KVM weapons, but that's a few classes and cases to consider. The majority are wearing CK's in WoE for reduction's sake, especially SC's. The thing about Shield Spell 3 is that it breaks any person's armor by 100% chance regardless if they are being protected by things like Praef/Safety Wall/Pneuma/etc. It even works with physical attack AoE's like Overbrand on several targets at once! It stacks with PPA. I've had RG's break both my shield and armor at the same time when I'm not wearing FCP after a single PPA! RK's running around in WoE will be wearing Mailbreakers/CK's while casting DB.

In WoE, you should never be an attack type RG, because you'll never kill anyone that's prepared, even with Inspiration and the attack buff from Shield Spell.

Regarding your shield build, I don't see the reason behind your recommended shield build. Rapid Smiting and Shield Boomerang really don't need to be maxed, because they won't help you do much in any situation. There's several other skills you can invest your points into, like more points into Shield Reflect or Guard, if you keep Shield Boomerang at 3 and not get Rapid Smiting. Placing 3rd class skill points into useless Trans skills is also a no-no, which is what you did in your shield build. I'd have put it into PPA to max it. Chance to break CK's is a pretty good way of making sure you're reducing your opponent's reductions. Remember that the minimum reduction you should assume for any character in PvP/WoE is 30% from a Cranial shield. From there you consider what headgears they might be using, which should always be a minimum of an extra 10% (16% if it's a +12 CEB/RPB). That's 40% reduction, not including WoE reductions of 40%. CK offers 10% on top of that. WoE Sets easily tack on a ton more reduction as well. Provoke is useful, but it won't affect damage reduction gears. Your best bet is to destroy as many gears as you can before you even attempt to attack someone in WoE.

lol okay then I guess I won't mention those types of bad players with less than 100 vit .

Yes I read this post: http://forums.warppo...to-break-armor/, I see the patches are still slow to come around here

O believe me I know to never be an offence type in woe, I made it quite clear in another thread that using hybrids and fully offensive builds in woe is a bad idea, and that fully defensesive sacing builds with banding is the way to go, but these two builds I made aren't for woe there for strictly pvp. However I must say that using a banding build that invloves Hesperus Lit looks promising for woe.

Well you c my shield build is experimental at best and its more or less an alternative if you want to try something new, RS would be a substitute for VP, not maxing VP frees up points so you can max earthdrive and shield press. If you don't have a ranged attack then you have to attack up close all the time, if you don't mind doing that then your right throwing points into guard and shield reflect is the way to go. haha come on buddy I only put 1 3rd job point into a trans tech tree, i put it in SQ to give OB a little more attack because it was left over . Yeah I guess it would be better if it were spent to maximize PPA if majority of players don't use kvm weapons, also keep in mind that this is a pvp only build and should never be used for anything more except pvm to recharge Inspiration. Thanks for the info though, if I ever go into woe I think I'll be a DB RK with a combat knife like the one you mentioned.

[GuardianTK]

The thing about CK is that they can be enchanted with Spell4/4's too, so they do end up being extremely important to certain key classes in both PvP and WoE. The only classes that should use KVM weapons are RK (Only for Crush Strike, which is really not an option when you consider how easy it is to reduce its damage to not let yourself be 1-shot.), RG, Sura, and GX. All other KVM weapons for the other classes are a pretty bad idea to use in a 1vs1 situation by default. PPA5 can be very helpful when you consider that you may be reducing an enemy's cast reduction by 20% and their demihuman resistance by 10%. In the cases where RK's aren't using Crush Strike, they will/should be defaulting a Spell4/4 enchanted CK/Mailbreaker for cast reduction and demihuman resistance.


There was someone who said they made a Banding Hesperus Lit RG guild on Ymir. Apparently it worked wonders. I'd like to see it in action myself someday, but people seldom use it and instead go for Inspiration/Sac.

Edited by GuardianTK, 22 January 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Zherot]

I decided that im not going to put lvl 10 spear quicken... do you think its better to max shield reflect or auto guard?, what its better?, since shield reflect can kill an oponent if they hit you hard, because they will be recieving damage to, or you can block the skill/atack at all with auto guard, what do you guys think?


My decicion in based in that spear quicken gives the same aspd, and flee/crit chance its just useless if im going to kill using skills not autoatacking at all, and in lvl 5 dutation its 2:30 min its ok.

Edited by Zherot, 22 January 2013 - 03:12 PM.

[GuardianTK]

That is where personal preference kicks in.


As for Spear Quicken, the only reason not to max it is if you're not planning to use Overbrand to its fullest potential. Please refer to the Balance Patch doc I referred to in an above link for Overbrand's formula.

[Zherot]

That is where personal preference kicks in.


As for Spear Quicken, the only reason not to max it is if you're not planning to use Overbrand to its fullest potential. Please refer to the Balance Patch doc I referred to in an above link for Overbrand's formula.

About over brand i did some calculations in the stat calculator and the damage loose is not that much really.

And about shield reflect and auto guard what do you think its best in your opinion, maybe with reflect shield at lvl 5 its enought to someone kill himself?, or maybe lvl 5 autoguard its enought?

[GuardianTK]

It really comes down to preference.

From what I've observed though, high-end Suras are smart enough not to GFist RG's as often anymore, unless the RG has been stripped or something. It's a really nice effect for PVM though. Guard on the other hand has its ups and downs. That being you get to tank a crap load more stuff, but you also flinch more often as a result of the Guard proc.


Maybe this old topic will help you decide:
http://forums.warppo...__fromsearch__1

Just promise me you won't necro it. /swt

Edited by GuardianTK, 22 January 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[kasshin]

Guard is pretty nice for tanking mobs. I recommend level 8, but level 6 or 10 are okay too. Really the usual reason not to get full spear quicken is to get sacrifice, or battle chant. You don't need a high level of shield reflect.

[Zherot]

Auto guard blocks skills?

[GuardianTK]

Yes