172 replies to this topic

[Kadelia]

These two are really good if you don't intend to spam blue pots non-stop.

Do you know about the skill Pure Soul yet?

[MeisterKirisaki]

I feel that Mika is under-appreciated. It's real power is when dual wielding them. A -10% V. Cast TIme -AND- a -10% SP consumption. These two are really good if you don't intend to spam blue pots non-stop. Obvious downside is that it does not give you any card slots and the gear are not properly enchantable for VCT reduction. But then again, you can get a +2 Stat, +2 Stat, +2 Stat (this third one is not confirmed by me, just that the NPC said you get extra options on daggers) when you enchant with K/O EQ enchanter.

Mine has a slot. I agree though that a Mikatsuki [1] is no bad choice until hundreds of millions of Zeny amassed in your wallet.

[matrixEXO]

Mine has a slot. I agree though that a Mikatsuki [1] is no bad choice until hundreds of millions of Zeny amassed in your wallet.

Ahhh. So a 1 slot huh. I knew I was missing something that was not mentioned in the iRO Wiki DB. It's not shown there anyway but yeah, +1 slot and 3 options.

Do you know about the skill Pure Soul yet?

Pure Soul is useful, yes, but when you want to move constantly and you are always not getting hit due not being able to move easily, PS may obstruct you more than it will help you. IMO, you should be able to use Mika on one hand, GTB +10 Arm Guard on another. This would make you have an even better mobility and enemy killing capability than using dual weapons and potting non-stop.

Edited by matrixEXO, 19 February 2013 - 08:52 PM.

[BabyKoala]

Pure soul = unlimited hp/sp. and honestly, I never run low on my instant cast oboro even when I spam skills like nobody's business.

[matrixEXO]

Pure soul = unlimited hp/sp. and honestly, I never run low on my instant cast oboro even when I spam skills like nobody's business.

Try MvPing with Pure Soul as your sustain function. I dare you to. Most likely, without GTB Armguard, you will die. I saw a lvl 99 Ninja be able to MvP on youtube, so don't say it's not possible to MvP. What he did was just playing kite using Blaze Shield, non-orb using skills and CSS. Guessing that he's using a GTB Arm Guard to block magic attacks.

EDIT: The vid I mentioned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PYfRE6VFHs


EDIT 2: This is outdated if not wrong, guessing is pre-renewal maybe? The idea that I'm trying to pitch here is that Magic Ninjas, to be successful in MvPing, needs 0 reliance on PS. PS is more supportive; when you are safe or not being mobbed by a bunch, sure. When fighting MvPs, you need that flow of motion to be able to successfully kill them without dying.

Edited by matrixEXO, 19 February 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[Kadelia]

Try MvPing with Pure Soul as your sustain function. I dare you to. Most likely, without GTB Armguard, you will die. I saw a lvl 99 Ninja be able to MvP on youtube, so don't say it's not possible to MvP. What he did was just playing kite using Blaze Shield, non-orb using skills and CSS. Guessing that he's using a GTB Arm Guard to block magic attacks.

EDIT: The vid I mentioned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PYfRE6VFHs


EDIT 2: This is outdated if not wrong, guessing is pre-renewal maybe? The idea that I'm trying to pitch here is that Magic Ninjas, to be successful in MvPing, needs 0 reliance on PS. PS is more supportive; when you are safe or not being mobbed by a bunch, sure. When fighting MvPs, you need that flow of motion to be able to successfully kill them without dying.

S basically what you are saying is we are right and the miktsuki's SP reduction is sort of meaningless because you're taking one off to wear a guard and then trying to distract us with a video. Also Pure Soul + Medium Life Potion = near invincibility LOLOL.

[matrixEXO]

S basically what you are saying is we are right and the miktsuki's SP reduction is sort of meaningless because you're taking one off to wear a guard and then trying to distract us with a video. Also Pure Soul + Medium Life Potion = near invincibility LOLOL.

I never said it was useless, I just never said that using dual Mika is the right way to go. Just stop twisting my words. Also, I wish you could post a video of you doing some mid/high level MvPing using Pure Soul and Medium Life Potion, please. It would prove to me that you aren't just lying to everyone here.

On the main note, I am using iRO Wiki DB. For all I might not know, the Crescent Armguard might give us 1 card slot as well, which if refined to +10 means a -20% skill delay. Not a bad thing to have indeed.

Edited by matrixEXO, 20 February 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Kadelia]

Why would I make a video of using a piss poor character for MVPing to MVP? The DPS on Ninja is WAYYYYYY too low compared to Sura/Gene. Why are you putting a square peg in a round hole? I can tank 20+ monsters in the turn in with pure soul and a medium life potion and zero consumeables. That is fricken top-notch for a defensive skill you said wasn't too good. Your only qualifier for needing the -5% SP thing is MVPing, which is borderline insanity, since if you are MVPing you can afford blues and a bazerald and the whole mikatsuki thing should be a footnote. Basically you disembarked the logic train back a few stations ago.

Edited by Jaye, 20 February 2013 - 07:26 PM.

[BabyKoala]

Try MvPing with Pure Soul as your sustain function. I dare you to. Most likely, without GTB Armguard, you will die. I saw a lvl 99 Ninja be able to MvP on youtube, so don't say it's not possible to MvP. What he did was just playing kite using Blaze Shield, non-orb using skills and CSS. Guessing that he's using a GTB Arm Guard to block magic attacks.

EDIT: The vid I mentioned:
Media removed


EDIT 2: This is outdated if not wrong, guessing is pre-renewal maybe? The idea that I'm trying to pitch here is that Magic Ninjas, to be successful in MvPing, needs 0 reliance on PS. PS is more supportive; when you are safe or not being mobbed by a bunch, sure. When fighting MvPs, you need that flow of motion to be able to successfully kill them without dying.

Before you ask someone to stop twisting your words, stop twisting others's words. I did not mention anything about mvping with pure soul. So don't try to dare me into anything. Think and read, before you quote me. And your argument is invalid, your PoV on how to MVP successfully does not mean everyone/anyone has to agree with you.

[matrixEXO]

Why would I make a video of using a piss poor character for MVPing to MVP? The DPS on Ninja is WAYYYYYY too low compared to Sura/Gene. Why are you putting a square peg in a round hole? I can tank 20+ monsters in the turn in with pure soul and a medium life potion and zero consumeables. That is fricken top-notch for a defensive skill you said wasn't too good. Your only qualifier for needing the -5% SP thing is MVPing, which is borderline insanity, since if you are MVPing you can afford blues and a bazerald and the whole mikatsuki thing should be a footnote. Basically you disembarked the logic train back a few stations ago.

... 20+ Hi TI mobs? Well, that IS impressive, if that is the case. Fact is, I never found it really useful unless you got enough items to build a uber-high HP K/O for tanking purposes. 10% of 30k hp (average with items and 120 VIT, I don't really know how much) is 3k per regen. Without basic healing effects. That, in and of itself, is low in regards to tanking if each of them were to deal 500 damage every second (not counting damage reduction from Def). That disregards damage null chance from Pure Soul. I don't use % effects into my calculation unless it can substantially do a constant effect (does not really give a good judgement value into the system). Thus, why I said it ain't good.

Now, you tell me that DPS on Ninja classes aren't good compared to Sura and Gene. Acceptable. BUT! Doesn't mean they cannot solo MvP at all. Low DPS just means more time to kill if you can survive the boss for very long. I won't say that your opinion is wrong, but it's a bit skewed if you see it properly. DPS =/= Survivability. You may be able to use Pure Soul to tank bosses, but I wouldn't really believe that Pure Soul is the one-stop shop for all (or part of all) your Survivability needs. I just find that, after seeing things online, there are better or worse (read: more tedious) way of playing but does result in the same or greater capability than playing PS tanking.

Also, my logic is just fine as is. Maybe you ought to re-evaluate yours instead. Rather than saying Gene/Sura = DPS = Boss killers, maybe see things where even when the DPS is low, as long as you can survive and still hit the enemy, it still results in the same Boss killer status, albeit more time consuming. Note that I never said efficiency in boss killing here. Cause we all know Sura and Gene are the most efficient classes in terms of Boss killing.

Before you ask someone to stop twisting your words, stop twisting others's words. I did not mention anything about mvping with pure soul. So don't try to dare me into anything. Think and read, before you quote me. And your argument is invalid, your PoV on how to MVP successfully does not mean everyone/anyone has to agree with you.

I read it as is. You said Pure Soul = Unlimited HP/SP. I dared you to apply that logic into MvPing.


EDIT: OK, I think I'm being a huge d*** here by "taunting" people into some things. I'm gonna stop. See ya all.

Edited by matrixEXO, 21 February 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[Kadelia]

matrixEXO, nobody suggested K/O should MVP except you. Nobody who was a proponent of pure soul suggested it be used for MVPing, only that the skill was worth getting. You are the one that insists on MVPing making or breaking skills or gear. Which frankly is absurd, since the class is ill-suited for MVPing to begin with. I borught up pure soul because you said spamming magic dps is quite draining on SP. Which Pure Soul counters soundly with a high-INT build in any leveling situation. Pure soul can also be activated along with a medium life potion, and white potions can be used on top of that, making tanking just about anything fairly easy, while ensuring max SP. Additionally, with MVPing, SP should not be an issue where pure soul is even relevant, as anyone who MVPs can afford blues. Hell, a Genetic that mvp spends tens of millions on acid bottles and grenades alone. There is no logic to anything you're saying. There is no reason to dig on pure soul for leveling situations, no reason mikatsuki is relevant or useful to anyone funded, nothing.

[Facekiller]

i had alot of success using Pure Soul while MVPing on sakkray.... since the skill is the only real magic defense ninja classes have (other than owning a GTB)... forget about the healing properties... you have a 50% CHANCE TO AVOID MAGIC DAMAGE.... that alone in my opinion makes up for its lack of mobility...

[magiccircle]

I don't have the cards to try this combination. but has anyone tried a high + RWC Memory Knife/Enchanted Baze with an Asura[3] Magic Race cards in the offhand?

[BabyKoala]

And that, I agree with you Jaye, on all points. Wp forum should have a "like button" so I can say "you there, have my like" lolz.

[Kadelia]

And that, I agree with you Jaye, on all points. Wp forum should have a "like button" so I can say "you there, have my like" lolz.

lol thanks. There kind of is, if you go to someone's profile they have a 1-5 star rating (done by other users) to see how well-liked they are.

[BabyKoala]

Oh have been using forums on iPhone doesn't have any stars. Might try on comp someday lolz.

[jesric]

wow im guessing this means going kage/obo isnt a good idea if your poor

[DrAzzy]

wow im guessing this means going kage/obo isnt a good idea if your poor

I regret mine, and I'm rich!

Note that in this thread we're talking about magic builds. The Kunai/Huuma builds work a lot better, and don't need multiple billions in gear to get mediocre performance.

Edited by DrAzzy, 25 February 2013 - 10:54 AM.

[Riakuta]

The problem with Magic for Kagerou/Oboro is the same problem that Sorcerer/Warlock receive. Magic is nerfed hard in Renewal without some special gimmick magic has no place compared to melee.

[Kadelia]

The problem with Magic for Kagerou/Oboro is the same problem that Sorcerer/Warlock receive. Magic is nerfed hard in Renewal without some special gimmick magic has no place compared to melee.

Strongly disagree.

No the problem with kagerou is they get no new magical skills, only a 16th night buff to the old spells and the charms-- neither of which bring K/O spell power up to 3rd class standards.

Lightning Jolt for example is only 900% or so even with charms out. That is pathetically low, on par with a mage's lightning bolt or something. weaker, even. The best skill is exploding damage, which tops out at 1800%. For comparison, Crimson Rock is 2800% in the hands of a level 100 Warlock and 4200% in the hands of a level 150. While Exploding Dragon plateaus at 1800%. The only advantage of the kagerou/oboro skills is a lot of them have a cooldown of global delay only, meaning they can be spammed in magic strings. But this largely is undesireable with the current mdef formula (more smaller hits means less overall damage cause each spell is reduced by soft mdef in turn) and the fact that there are better skills to be thrown from magic strings (like dragon's breath). Oh, and the AoE on ninja magic is smaller, too.

Another comparison is Sorcerer's Psychic wave, which is far more useful than any ninja magic, due to being able to deal non-elemental damage, having a larger AoE, and dealing in excess if 8000% with the right stats and base level.

Edited by Jaye, 25 February 2013 - 02:44 PM.

[kristoffer]

sir/mam jaye, i just like to ask if magic type oboro is much more fun to pvm/pvp with than kunai type?just asking because as of now im a ninja and throw kunai is too boring T.T

[Kadelia]

If you can 1 shot with kunai explosion, its more fun. If you can't, the magic is more fun. Because the magic has less delays and can be spammed unlike kunai.

[kristoffer]

If you can 1 shot with kunai explosion, its more fun. If you can't, the magic is more fun. Because the magic has less delays and can be spammed unlike kunai.

thanks!well since i think i can reset my stat for free im thinking if im gonna use it and just go the magic build.and thinking that i started from scratch, i wonder whats the damage of my kunai explosion in the future hahaha

[Kadelia]

if you read the kunai thread there is a lot of examples of weaponry and damage

[kristoffer]

yes i did. but as i see how pumped you should be to get a decent damage for kunai explosion i doubt ill be effective on my way to 150. but if i go with a caster oboro i can atleast use 2x mikatsuki and cheap gears that may increase my survivability until 150. on the other hand if i go with kunai explosion build by using gears like grimtooth for example. i doubt i can survive mobbing with crappy gears.

im lvl 85 right now and i badly need an intervention on how build works at higher level HAHAHA XD

cheers!