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Klyde's Rogue Guide [The Basics]


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#176 mysticalre

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:29 AM

just trying to make the most out of these skill resets >_> if you plan on getting a skill lvl 5 after a reset, might as well test lvls 1,3,5 on the way lol

 

I'm pretty biased towards PW 5/5, but that's from a Raid POV. As gear gets stronger, a few things happen:

 

- thief classes get naturally higher crit, needing less to no AGI runes

- crit rate is currently capped at 70%, so overdoing it with AGI runes (60%+ buffed crit) negates your Crit Doping buff (+20%)

- there are so many %ATK buffs (Doping, Swordie STR buff, guild ATK buff, Explorer's STR Pots, and sometimes the 20% ATK doping)

- so higher gear levels mean STR runes become better (which also help PW damage)

 

I messed with only 5 minute tests, and with 2085 ATK, the unbuffed difference (lvl 1 vs. lvl 5) with CoA-H gear added up to about 7.7K damage. That's just from 3 tries though and without any ATK buffs mentioned above.

 

The more STR you get, the difference starts to show, so I see PW-5 as a pretty endgame-ish skill, it scales well with good gear/buffs. Imagine how much BlackLotus' (a rogue from SEA) PW ticks, yes plz to +5% of 7000ATK every 2secs >_>


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#177 Leinzan

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:56 AM

uhm, ok a more standar way to put it is my experience as another DI fanatic.

 

I've played with it enought to fall in love with it, I mean, its an awesome farming skill (can solo grind things faster than anyone with it), and its also an incredible KSer.

 

but well here we go (this is based on my colo experience):

 

Full colo geared Maxed AR from UD, 5/5 DI can do a wooping 2.2k damange on squishy targets.

Full colo geared Maxed AR from UD, 3/5 DI can do 1.8k damange on squishy targets.

Full colo geared Maxed AR from UD, 1/5 DI can do 1.5k damange on squishy targets.

Only colo weapon, assassin with no shadow form, 1/5 DI can do 1.1k damange on squishy targets.

Only colo weapon, assassin with shadow form, 1/5 DI can do 1.3k damange on squishy targets.

 

Unknown parameters are the actual gears on possession of said targets (PvP Defense from colo gears).


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#178 Velouce

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:04 PM

Lol, there we go.

 

So if I get this right, I have additional damage of ~7,7k within 5 minutes? That's a huge number, compared to those rather small changes from other variables. I'm leaning towards maxing PW now. Which however only made it harder for me.

 

What I don't understand is, why using DA instead of DI in WoE? And how are those WoE mechanics? I'm having a hard time finding any useful information on the net.

 

If I'm leaving DI at 1, I need one spare point for maxed Poison. I don't think I feel comfortable without 1 point in Rolling Cutter, but the only other option I could think off was removing 1 point from either SB or Doping... And both of them could have a crucial impact on my DoT (1minute less often using SB+MD or 4% lower chance on applying crit/str buff)

 

 

BTW - I'm still looking for a guild to run CoA hard with / AoD when I am done with this annoying questline.


Edited by Velouce, 07 September 2013 - 10:42 AM.

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#179 KIyde

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:07 AM

just trying to make the most out of these skill resets >_> if you plan on getting a skill lvl 5 after a reset, might as well test lvls 1,3,5 on the way lol

 

I'm pretty biased towards PW 5/5, but that's from a Raid POV. As gear gets stronger, a few things happen:

 

- thief classes get naturally higher crit, needing less to no AGI runes

- crit rate is currently capped at 70%, so overdoing it with AGI runes (60%+ buffed crit) negates your Crit Doping buff (+20%)

- there are so many %ATK buffs (Doping, Swordie STR buff, guild ATK buff, Explorer's STR Pots, and sometimes the 20% ATK doping)

- so higher gear levels mean STR runes become better (which also help PW damage)

 

I messed with only 5 minute tests, and with 2085 ATK, the unbuffed difference (lvl 1 vs. lvl 5) with CoA-H gear added up to about 7.7K damage. That's just from 3 tries though and without any ATK buffs mentioned above.

 

The more STR you get, the difference starts to show, so I see PW-5 as a pretty endgame-ish skill, it scales well with good gear/buffs. Imagine how much BlackLotus' (a rogue from SEA) PW ticks, yes plz to +5% of 7000ATK every 2secs >_>

 

I got a question regarding the Crit cap, this might a stupid question but how do you know that Crit caps at 70%? I mean, right now I'm using Agi runes because I can't afford STR ones and my UD maxes out at about 77% with Raid buffs on.

 

Right now I have lvl 1 PW since I have a sin that's geared better than me in my same raid group so there was no point in both of us having PW 2 seeing as they can spare the points, plus I had to get Smoke Bomb for WoE reasons =_=

 

On the other hand, I wouldn't give BlackLotus too much credit, he's an extreme P2W person, last time I saw he had full deck of +10 STR runes with 3 slotted costumes, and in that screenshot I wouldn't be surprised if he had all elixer pots on. The only thing I'm lacking in regards of equip from that screenshot is the Hell's Valkyrie Dual Dagger but I doubt that gives you 5% more hit.

 

 

Lol, there we go.

 

So if I get this right, I have additional damage of ~7,7k within 5 minutes? That's a huge number, compared to those rather small changes from other variables. I'm leaning towards maxing PW now. Which however only made it harder for me.

 

What I don't understand is, why using DA instead of DI in WoE? And how are those WoE mechanics? I'm having a hard time finding any useful information on the net.

 

If I'm leaving DI at 1, I need one spare point for maxed Poison. I don't think I feel comfortable without 1 point in Rolling Cutter, but the only other option I could think off was removing 1 point from either SB or Doping... And both of them could have a crucial impact on my DoT (1minute less often using SB+MD or 4% lower chance on applying crit/str buff)

 

 

BTW - I'm still looking for a guild to run CoA hard with / AoD when I am done with this annoying questline.

 

The only reason I used DA is because my DI is level one because I don't colo and I don't want to put more points in it. I dumped Rolling Cutter since I didn't see myself using it ever since they fixed it so you can't poison from it anymore.


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#180 mysticalre

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:26 AM

how do you know that Crit caps at 70%? I mean, right now I'm using Agi runes because I can't afford STR ones and my UD maxes out at about 77% with Raid buffs on.

 

I learned this completely by accident, I didn't know about it before too.

 

In your character display, you know when you have your crit rate vs. lvl 51, lvl 50 (base), lvl 49 bosses. When I was full agi runed I had the same crit as you. But when you get the +20% crit doping, I randomly checked my character info page again to SS the high crit...

 

I screenshotted it at the time too:

- http://i.imgur.com/RXT8V9c.jpg

 

It shows the base crit on my character display, but it shows as 70.00% exactly vs both lvl 51s and lvl 49. So what I think is happening is the lvl 51 and 49 crits are the calculated crits after considering lvl differences (and... a crit crap, it seems)

 

I didn't confirm this with a GM though, since another possibility is that this is a bug. Maybe it's worth making a ticket for this.


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#181 KIyde

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:52 AM

I learned this completely by accident, I didn't know about it before too.

 

In your character display, you know when you have your crit rate vs. lvl 51, lvl 50 (base), lvl 49 bosses. When I was full agi runed I had the same crit as you. But when you get the +20% crit doping, I randomly checked my character info page again to SS the high crit...

 

I screenshotted it at the time too:

- http://i.imgur.com/RXT8V9c.jpg

 

It shows the base crit on my character display, but it shows as 70.00% exactly vs both lvl 51s and lvl 49. So what I think is happening is the lvl 51 and 49 crits are the calculated crits after considering lvl differences (and... a crit crap, it seems)

 

I didn't confirm this with a GM though, since another possibility is that this is a bug. Maybe it's worth making a ticket for this.

 

Derp, never noticed that, I had no clue that critical rate was affected in the same % as hit, as in monster level. DAMN IT SOMEONE TAKE MY DAMN AGI RUNES. 

 

I think its working as intended, similar how iRO had an ASPD cap, they could be doing the same with this one, and 70% seems fair.

 

Thanks for clarifying.


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#182 LadyZephyr

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:13 PM

Thanks OP. This was a great starting point in my research.


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#183 halpme

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:33 PM

Thanks so much, Klyde. I am doing good because of your guide!


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#184 chronojxf007

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 04:28 PM

RIP Klyde, up for this nice old post, for memories  :p_laugh:


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