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#51 Theoretical

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:11 AM

Actually, the whole Pandora thing is a very bad decision for this game as well. Graham Potions that add 3000 MAX HP for 60 minutes are easily one of the worst offenders when it comes to breaking the game balance, and the only way to get those is by opening Pandora Boxes with cash shop keys (unavailable via Mallets).


Dear god, I do not want to see those in game. I plan on rolling a pure tank BeastMaster and having to run with cashshop items to be optimized would ruin the game for me.
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#52 Lucentos

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:14 AM

I have only one question about gamebreaking things - what average price will be in the $ for casual competitive package?
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#53 IAmOfficerNasty

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:50 AM

I could care less about the cooldowns on Resurrection spells, but the minute I see this game going P2W I'm just calling it quits. I don't want to have to pay money in order to STAY AVERAGE in the game.
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#54 Rozelle

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 07:55 AM

I could care less about the cooldowns on Resurrection spells, but the minute I see this game going P2W I'm just calling it quits. I don't want to have to pay money in order to STAY AVERAGE in the game.


Well the thing is, with the cooldown the way it was on SEARO2, it forced people to buy items from the cash shop in order to survive certain bosses and endgame content. It was already pay to win, and if iRO2 keeps that model, that's exactly how it will stay.
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#55 Theoretical

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:02 AM

I am sitting on this thread waiting for some sort of interjection from the community management team that reads something like:

Oda: Fluffernutter toast guys, this is what we got!
Heim: In the words of Little Wayne, FBGM.

OR

Oda: The stars will soon align and the changes will be made to reflect the community concerns!
Heim: We do plan on modifying the cash shop and the in game mechanics slightly(skills) to be more like the kRO2 version.
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#56 Nitro

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:51 AM

Please fix the res cooldown so melee DPS won't be a joke if they die in a raid because they have to be on the targets backside 24/7.
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#57 Nitro

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:57 AM

Pardon my confusion, but are we able to obtain blue weapons at low level from Pandora's box using the mallets?
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#58 Tkwan

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 08:58 AM

You'd be amazed at how often I see people calling warrior a "useless" class.

In reality warriors make damn god tanks, but most of the time in SEA RO2 a knight will always be picked over a warrior. Part of this is sort of a weird stereotype that warriors are supposed to be an off tank/DPS class. I think they may also typically have slightly lower HP than a knight, and on SEA server HP is almost everything. Most parties won't bother with you at all if your HP is below a certain number. (Beastmasters are actually the HP champ, but are often the exception as they get passed over due to low defense.)

Additionally knights have a move (Shield Fortress) that reduces the damage taken by the entire party for 10 seconds. Some attacks aren't really avoidable, or everyone is spread over too large an area for the tank to attract adds/summons (BAPHO), or a boss randomly switches targets and there's a high chance that if a party member gets killed you won't be seeing them until well after the battle. In these cases, SF is thought to be a great asset since it increases the survivability of everyone for a time typically long enough to get the situation under control.

So really the answer is "because that's how people do it, idk dude"





In my experience as a priest, it has little to do with my skill (or lack thereof) and more to do with how organized the party is. In an organized party, I as a single priest (level 50 with a mix of green, blue, and purple equips) can handle everyone easily without having a sorc around. But organized parties, in my experience, are absolutely a minority. It becomes impossible for one priest (or one ANYTHING) to take care of a whole party when everyone has to be chased across the map constantly.

My experience with raids and parties has been more or less entirely "public," made from finding people on the party search or just getting asked while goofing off in a town. I'm sure that if I had a consistent group I'd have a much different story to tell.


I was intending on going warrior simply because it looked like they had superior tank skills.

If I made it to 50 (I dont intend on actually actively playing RO2, so that's a big "if") I planned on this build http://www.ro2skills...dneFedqBaFdqrF1
Might move a couple points around in first job, but to me, that seems pretty solid.

I didnt see provoke as needing to be so high, it only generates 100 aggro which is paultry.
Wide provoke is gotten for the lower cooldown for crowd control in messy situations.
I intended aura strike to be the main damage generating skill.
Bowling Bash is gotten for aoe (no idea if it works like RO1 bowling bash, I was hoping it would).
1 point in battle leaf to quickly close the gap to a rogue mob that is going after a party member.
1 pommel attack in hopes that you are able to knock bosses down (no idea if this is possible, just assumed it was after coming from playing TERA lol).


In your experience, or any warrior's experience, how does this build work for tanking?


Edit - Totally hijacked the thread lol. Sorry.

To be on point -

Yes that CD is ridiculous, and the kRO originals sound much better. I don't personally think a res should be more than 15 minutes at MOST (really I think 10 is much more acceptable), and that's only if its useable in combat. If it can't be used in combat, then a 0 min- 5 min CD is much more appropriate.

Edited by Tkwan, 19 April 2013 - 09:01 AM.

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#59 Alleggretto

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:12 AM

Well the thing is, with the cooldown the way it was on SEARO2, it forced people to buy items from the cash shop in order to survive certain bosses and endgame content. It was already pay to win, and if iRO2 keeps that model, that's exactly how it will stay.

If this really goes P2W on this version, it won't last long...at all.
SEA already had a bad rep. I really don't want iRO to go to hell because of bad crap like this.
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#60 Rozelle

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:14 AM

I'm just going to assume it's this way for the beta only, until I am proven otherwise. It's the only way I can keep myself sane. :heh:
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#61 Reifnir

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:17 AM

I was intending on going warrior simply because it looked like they had superior tank skills.

If I made it to 50 (I dont intend on actually actively playing RO2, so that's a big "if") I planned on this build http://www.ro2skills...dneFedqBaFdqrF1
Might move a couple points around in first job, but to me, that seems pretty solid.

I didnt see provoke as needing to be so high, it only generates 100 aggro which is paultry.
Wide provoke is gotten for the lower cooldown for crowd control in messy situations.
I intended aura strike to be the main damage generating skill.
Bowling Bash is gotten for aoe (no idea if it works like RO1 bowling bash, I was hoping it would).
1 point in battle leaf to quickly close the gap to a rogue mob that is going after a party member.
1 pommel attack in hopes that you are able to knock bosses down (no idea if this is possible, just assumed it was after coming from playing TERA lol).


In your experience, or any warrior's experience, how does this build work for tanking?


Edit - Totally hijacked the thread lol. Sorry.

To be on point -

Yes that CD is ridiculous, and the kRO originals sound much better. I don't personally think a res should be more than 15 minutes at MOST (really I think 10 is much more acceptable), and that's only if its useable in combat. If it can't be used in combat, then a 0 min- 5 min CD is much more appropriate.



I think going off-topic to find out the mechanics is a lesser evil considering threads like this usually derail in whine/rant direction :D

And to answer your question - build needs some work.

First of all, when it comes to threat generation on a single target, Bowling Bash loses to the basic Bash. You might want to pick up Rage Strike as an opening skill, since most of the fights there's going to be a truck-sized Fireball, a Falcon and whatnot hitting the mob's face split-second after you pull it - you want some means to build aggro FAST during the pull, and pulling with Taunt is about the worst thing you can come up with.
Second, no points in Brandish Storm isn't the best idea - while in this game majority of AoE threat is generated by... Potion spamming (VIT modifier +tanking stance threat modifier make ONE potion push your threat up by the thousands), Brandish Storm allows Warriors to stay on top, since it's spammable on the go. When you're on add duty on the Driller, you'll get what I'm saying :D

Lastly, no tank needs more than ONE point in both single-target and AoE taunt skills.
You're either maintaining solid threat level or you never had a chance to begin with, no amount of taunt cooldown reduction is going to change that.
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#62 Tkwan

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:28 AM

I think going off-topic to find out the mechanics is a lesser evil considering threads like this usually derail in whine/rant direction :D

And to answer your question - build needs some work.

First of all, when it comes to threat generation on a single target, Bowling Bash loses to the basic Bash. You might want to pick up Rage Strike as an opening skill, since most of the fights there's going to be a truck-sized Fireball, a Falcon and whatnot hitting the mob's face split-second after you pull it - you want some means to build aggro FAST during the pull, and pulling with Taunt is about the worst thing you can come up with.
Second, no points in Brandish Storm isn't the best idea - while in this game majority of AoE threat is generated by... Potion spamming (VIT modifier +tanking stance threat modifier make ONE potion push your threat up by the thousands), Brandish Storm allows Warriors to stay on top, since it's spammable on the go. When you're on add duty on the Driller, you'll get what I'm saying :D

Lastly, no tank needs more than ONE point in both single-target and AoE taunt skills.
You're either maintaining solid threat level or you never had a chance to begin with, no amount of taunt cooldown reduction is going to change that.


Thanks for the help lol. Wasn't sure about bowling bash since they changed so many other skills from the original -_-

So this would be more appropriate? http://www.ro2skills...dnrFdBqBdOedrF1


Also - Potions generate aggro? :p_err:

Edited by Tkwan, 19 April 2013 - 09:30 AM.

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#63 Splendens

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:36 AM

1 pommel attack in hopes that you are able to knock bosses down (no idea if this is possible, just assumed it was after coming from playing TERA lol).


Since Reifnir answered your other questions probably way better than I could...

You can't stun/knock down dungeon/raid bosses, only regular mobs and the minor field bosses. If you could knock down dungeon/raid bosses, I think rogues would be soooo much more popular. :C
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#64 Reifnir

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 09:39 AM

Thanks for the help lol. Wasn't sure about bowling bash since they changed so many other skills from the original -_-

So this would be more appropriate? http://www.ro2skills...dnrFdBqBdOedrF1


Also - Potions generate aggro? :p_err:


Yeah, that would be your basic versatile tanking build, the rest of fine-tuning can be done depending on your raid setup.

As for potions - I have a vid (no sound and needs to be watched in HD to see the threat numbers) which shows just how much threat potions generate due to Aura Armor and VIT bonus (the more VIT = the more potions heal = the more threat per pot).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ53ofCW-EU
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#65 Tkwan

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:31 AM

Yeah, that would be your basic versatile tanking build, the rest of fine-tuning can be done depending on your raid setup.

As for potions - I have a vid (no sound and needs to be watched in HD to see the threat numbers) which shows just how much threat potions generate due to Aura Armor and VIT bonus (the more VIT = the more potions heal = the more threat per pot).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ53ofCW-EU


Thanks.

Still curious though, why would people choose a knight over a warrior for tanking?
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#66 Reifnir

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:00 AM

Thanks.

Still curious though, why would people choose a knight over a warrior for tanking?


First and foremost - stereotype.
Sword and shield = must be a tank.

Second, Shield Fortress *IS* an invaluable utility.
If there is a predictable, non-avoidable damage spike incoming (Bapho scythe throw, for example) and you want your melee camp to live through it, you use SF.
25% group-wide incoming damage reduction may seem small on paper, but it's invaluable in certain boss fights.

And there's the fact that an average-geared Knight has somewhat more survivability than an average-geared Warrior tank - Warrior avoidance buff is percentile and you won't really outclass Knights in that department until fully epic geared.
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#67 LordLDF

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:04 AM

I agree with everything

-Res CD should be changed to original kRO version and for those of you who say it will be too easy just remember its 2 skill points extra to reduce the CD to 3 minutes, if you've ever tried to make a priest build you know this would be a tough dilemma and 2. do you know how long 3/5 minutes is? stare at a clock for 3 minutes and see

-Super large bags are kafra I'm ok with that but LARGE bags should be world drop like in kRO and the khara should be changed to large bags as well its just super annoying to have around 3 kharas stuck there because you don't want to spend about 50 dollars for more bag space and a little bit of xp and zeny

-Bosses being buffed to the point where the only way to beat them is to spend real money is enraging really and makes me feel taken advantage of

-Pandora Boxes... I love yet hate them, I think from a game mechanic they are horrible since they give you a level 45ish weapon at level one if you are lucky or rich enough. It makes all weapon drops pointless as well as the blacksmithing profession (until end game). This might be a necessity if you're buffing all the monsters like another version of this game did (I wont say their name I just hate them) I think it would be fine if you just took out the weapons or just changed their level and strength down to say a level 30 weapon useable at level 24 or something modest like that.

I will leave with just this, if you go to the forum of the "one who shall not be named" you will find absolutely no love nor will you find anyone defending them. So please don't copy them! Copy kRO everyone seems to love them! As for cash shop the things I'd like to buy are VIP and other boosts scrolls for things like combat xp and profession xp. Also perhaps special hats or cards with unique abilities like in iRO, rideword hats and hide clips for all! Even spinels and other things of that nature as long as its only give me a moderate gaming boost and not a near necessity to get anything done.

Also one more thing thats starting to become a pet peeve, this is naRO2 not iRO2, it is not an international release.
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#68 Tsujiko

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 11:05 AM

I'm just going to assume it's this way for the beta only, until I am proven otherwise. It's the only way I can keep myself sane. :heh:

Thats what I hope for as well. Maybe, maybe, it's just like Sea because it's the beta client @.@

I stopped on Sea because 1. I didn't liked the most peoples attitude there....
and 2. because of all these obnoxious changes... Potion cooldown 10sec... I can tolerate this. But resu same like Sea? 50 min? 10 times longer... WHY?! And sorcerer nerf also? I liked the way they were. PVE was nice before the nerv.
The monsters seems like the one from sea, too.
The kara-thingy is the worst... I like to spend mony on games, but not when I am forced to. I would rather buy costumes, headgears and so on, than this stupid bags. What do they take me for? (Then I am a little bossy princes and rather buy nothing at all!)

I play games for my entertaiment, not as a profession. So I like to have fun. Sea was totally against my likes and I put so much hopes in the NARo2.... If the servers are the same, why stay here? I have charas on sea and I don't need to start from 0 again.
Maybe the german (my region) servers are going to be better... But my hopes aren't high....

So maybe, just like Rozelle said, it's just because it's beta. One can always dream. And the released client is like an english Kro2.
Just my two little cents
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#69 Serenaki

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:02 PM

Wish a CM or someone would clarify if this will be changed or not.
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#70 Splendens

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:11 PM

-Bosses being buffed to the point where the only way to beat them is to spend real money is enraging really and makes me feel taken advantage of

-Pandora Boxes... I love yet hate them, I think from a game mechanic they are horrible since they give you a level 45ish weapon at level one if you are lucky or rich enough. It makes all weapon drops pointless as well as the blacksmithing profession (until end game). This might be a necessity if you're buffing all the monsters like another version of this game did (I wont say their name I just hate them) I think it would be fine if you just took out the weapons or just changed their level and strength down to say a level 30 weapon useable at level 24 or something modest like that.


I wouldn't necessarily say that cash shop items are needed for certain boss fights, unless we're talking about stuff like the khara for beating the CoA bosses within 5 minutes or whatever it was (cue someone bragging that they did it without), which I'd classify more as an extracurricular activity than a main subject.

Pandora weapons used to not be usable by anyone under level 25. Everyone being able to use them, that's a recent change, though even before that it kind of made blacksmiths' jobs obsolete from lvls 25-45.

I kind of embrace it because life as an aco sans pandora boxes is hell and a half.
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#71 Faolain

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:13 PM

Wish a CM or someone would clarify if this will be changed or not.


We might get a response after maintenance.
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#72 LordLDF

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:19 PM

I wouldn't necessarily say that cash shop items are needed for certain boss fights, unless we're talking about stuff like the khara for beating the CoA bosses within 5 minutes or whatever it was (cue someone bragging that they did it without), which I'd classify more as an extracurricular activity than a main subject.

Pandora weapons used to not be usable by anyone under level 25. Everyone being able to use them, that's a recent change, though even before that it kind of made blacksmiths' jobs obsolete from lvls 25-45.

I kind of embrace it because life as an aco sans pandora boxes is hell and a half.


Yes you are right they made all the pandora weapons second job only I didn't check on that still a bit overpowered but not as much. On the you know which server it made them useable by first classes as well, my mistake. As for bosses I don't know many raid groups who could do it without spinels at the very least considering people can be randomly one shotted no matter how well they play and you know Ress skills aren't very reliable with their current cooldowns.
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#73 Serenaki

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:23 PM

We might get a response after maintenance.


The maint they just did? I'm already patched and ingame lol.
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#74 Pinkus

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:27 PM

+1, 50min res cd is ridiculous!!
Also, am i the only one that felt that the gold system was broken after lvl 50? I mean, when you are leveling you get gold for every quest, but after you have completed all the quests (2k zenny aprox) there isnt a viable way of earning (or farming) gold (besides selling stuff in AH), shouldn´t daily quests, monsters, raids, dungeons drop more gold?
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#75 LordLDF

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 01:32 PM

+1, 50min res cd is ridiculous!!
Also, am i the only one that felt that the gold system was broken after lvl 50? I mean, when you are leveling you get gold for every quest, but after you have completed all the quests (2k zenny aprox) there isnt a viable way of earning (or farming) gold (besides selling stuff in AH), shouldn´t daily quests, monsters, raids, dungeons drop more gold?


I kind of like it, makes zeny more valuable and keeps prices down from ourageous amounts like in the billions. Also don't forgoet khara's give zeny too. Perhaps a better solution would be to alter the money sinks? Especially the auction house, I think it takes far too much money on end game type items, with not only it charging to put items in but also taking a % out when sold.
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