304 replies to this topic

[Thaiku]

there are some advantages on cash shop of course, but, who is going to buy all these at same time?
I mean, you can be vip, and sometimes, buy something if you want to be top PvP/PvE. I probably will use VIP sometimes, and maybe buy some refining items, nothing more.
I somebody buy all those Kafra Shop items... good for him/her, i'd never sepend so much money in a game. My limit is ~15$ month like WoW. (i've played it for years and 15$ is perfect for me).
If you are looking for a free game where you can be on top, stop playing mmorpgs.... if it's free, MUST have a cash shop (dou you know how much money costs develop RO2? only the OST costs a lot of money) and really... not much people is going to buy in a only cosmetic shop, that would take 10 years for gravity recover the invested money.
At the moment, if you can spend about 10/15$ each month, you can be at top, even playing free without vip or cash items, you could be a good player and kill VIPs (beeing VIP doesn't make you a good pvp player)

Sorry for my english.

[Sakarai]

I don't like it when people say "get a better job" or something in that regard because it actually has nothing to do with the issue. The issue is spending money on items that are temporary and that in order to be competitive you're pigeon holed into buying it. That is not how a cash shop should operate in fact if you look at the more successful FTP titles or lets even just say cash shops in general they will have a large array of price ranges but generally they're jam packed with cheap content. Cheap items exist in these cash shops to get you into buying something from the shop why do you think they go crazy and have all these events or sales when they basically hand out cash shop items? Its to give you a taste of what its like to draw you into buying more from their shop. Once a customer starts to buy from the cash shop they're more than likely to be a recurring customer later on as well. This is what makes FTP successful. Another reason they're so successful is because they don't punish you for not buying into the game this generates a free user base. At first glance you're going to say "hmm well those people are leaching" but in reality they're not. What they're doing is providing more content and a better experience for people who are paying. Warpportal being the geniuses they are however don't conform to any real understanding of what it means to have a cash shop in your game at all I'm not really sure where it went wrong but they really need to step back and look at other companies like Aeria, Sega, Riot, Red 5, Gamersfirst and etc to see how successful they are with this model.

Tldr; What WP is doing isn't drawing people into buying anything from their cash shop it actually does the reverse. If they want this game to be successful and last they need to reconsider their pricing model.

Edited by Sakarai, 22 April 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[Thaiku]

Age of Conan turned free2play, and if you are no vip user, you can't play sieges.... i'd really prefer the VIP + refining system. Temporally items are a SCAM, that is the worst part of Kafra Shop, they should change thei policy about expiring items....

[Reifnir]

You can get a +10 whatever, it just may take longer since you may have to grind for it again when it breaks.

No, you can't refine ANY epic-grade (purple) weapon without cash shop items.
While green/blue equipment merely loses the accumulated +'es when refinement fails, purple ones are destroyed on failure, and in RO2 there is *NO* safe zone for refinement - in fact, there are recorded cases of several items being destroyed in a row while going from +0 to +1.

:upd:
Regarding Pandora - a Pandora weapon, while equippable at lvl 25 is equivalent (stat-wise) to a lvl 43 weapon. Basically, Pandoras are weapons for alts, nothing more.

Also, they have the crafting systems for a reason. Characters like alchemist and cook are liable to make stupid amounts of zeny with high level pots/foods, so zeny wont be too difficult to get like that anyway. Just make a character that has one of those two jobs, and you'll be set.

If only it worked that way...
I have all professions maxed out (on alts) in SEA RO2, and I can tell you this - the profit margin for food and potions is ridiculously low because of the amount of materials required that cannot be acquired through gathering (monster drops only). Cooking, by far, is the worst out of any game I ever played. Can you say "A food stack of 5 that requires a rare drop from a lvl 50 5-man Hard Mode boss"? Wait, it gets better - there's a buff food that requires an even more rare drop from a RAID BOSS for a stack of 5.
If anything, Chef/Alchemist were profitable for botters, much less regular people. It's somewhat better for Artisan/Blacksmith - an active raider can hope to make some cash from dungeon-obtained crafting recipes - if he's willing to leave the game client running 24/7 to keep a stall, that is...

As for the socket stuff. It depends. If you can just get permanent everything and put in a rune, it's not a huge deal.

Here's the catch: Rune slots are only present in limited duration costumes that come with an expiration date.
Permanent costumes, while present, never have rune slots.
Every month you have to buy a "Duration extender" item for your slotted costume pieces, if you want to keep them that is.

TL:DR - SEA's cash shop offered a variety of ways to disappoint customers, and if it remains unchanged here, RO2's future looks quite grim.

Edited by Reifnir, 22 April 2013 - 02:44 AM.

[Thaiku]

it's easy, if they try to make a real Pay 2 win that needs a lot of money each month, the game will die and they will lose a LOT of money.

[Lucentos]

Reifnir, what amount of $ is required to aquire the best gear with good refinement, runes and these buffs and duration extenders?

[Ethro]

everything bought in the cash shop can be sold in the auction house (thats how it was back on seaRO)
so it is safe if u u buy it in the auction house no scam but maybe sometimes overprized =D

i never spent any € on cash shop items on seaRO i bought everything i wanted from the auction house
u can even buy the upgraded runes from people :3 so dont cry my little children

[Reifnir]

Reifnir, what amount of $ is required to aquire the best gear with good refinement, runes and these buffs and duration extenders?

I'll write up the prices, do the math...

1 USD equals ~1220 RO2@Cash on Sea (if you buy 100k cash at once, less is more expensive), and prices go as follows:

1 Pandora Key (good for one chest) costs 680 cash, ~55 c
1 Spinel (Self-Resurrection) = 780 cash, ~63 c, cheaper in bundles.
1 Super Puncher (to allow costume slotting, since even duraion-based costumes come with "sealed" rune slots) = 5080 cash, $4.1 per slot.
30day VIP =9800 cash, 8 bucks.
1 Rune Elixir (upgrades a +5 rune to (+6 - +10 randomly) = 1980 cash, $1.6 per attempt.
1 Super-Large Bag is 18k cash, $14.8

Stat/skill reset scrolls are 6080 each, $4.9 a piece.
Costume extender (body slot) = 3980, or $3.2 each.
Costume extender (head, glasses, pipe/leaf, cape/wings etc, 4 slots total) 1980 or $1.6 each.

Karnium (refinement safeguard) comes only as a part of Munil's <colored> Box, 1980 or $1.6 each. Costumes, for the most part, come randomly from these boxes as well.
Buff pills come only as a part of Premium Pack, = 5880 or $4.8 each.

Edited by Reifnir, 22 April 2013 - 03:50 AM.

[Sakarai]

Well at least they didn't pull a nexon on us and charge $25 for skill resets.

[Astrariel]

Well at least they didn't pull a nexon on us and charge $25 for skill resets.

Perfect World does that too. At least for their RaiderZ game you have to buy about $25 in zen for a skill reset.

[Nitro]

One thing for sure is I love RO2 over RO1, and will most likely be buying stuff that will save me time in-game. As much as we argue about it, if the company doesn't make money they aren't going to be up long for people to complain about.

[Thaiku]

yeah, i'm going to buy stuff if WarpPortal don't go with the expring policy on items. And if i see a strong weapon/armor only for cass, i'll quit the game instantly.

[rollchan]

I'll write up the prices, do the math...

1 USD equals ~1220 RO2@Cash on Sea (if you buy 100k cash at once, less is more expensive), and prices go as follows:

1 Pandora Key (good for one chest) costs 680 cash, ~55 c
1 Spinel (Self-Resurrection) = 780 cash, ~63 c, cheaper in bundles.
1 Super Puncher (to allow costume slotting, since even duraion-based costumes come with "sealed" rune slots) = 5080 cash, $4.1 per slot.
30day VIP =9800 cash, 8 bucks.
1 Rune Elixir (upgrades a +5 rune to (+6 - +10 randomly) = 1980 cash, $1.6 per attempt.
1 Super-Large Bag is 18k cash, $14.8

Stat/skill reset scrolls are 6080 each, $4.9 a piece.
Costume extender (body slot) = 3980, or $3.2 each.
Costume extender (head, glasses, pipe/leaf, cape/wings etc, 4 slots total) 1980 or $1.6 each.

Karnium (refinement safeguard) comes only as a part of Munil's <colored> Box, 1980 or $1.6 each. Costumes, for the most part, come randomly from these boxes as well.
Buff pills come only as a part of Premium Pack, = 5880 or $4.8 each.

Those are tradeable (except for the bags) BTW, usually there are people selling those items on auction house, so you don't need to pay anything as long as you want to work extra-hard to get zenies.

[Xodi]

I love people who thinks they're so incredibly "game-smart" and knows everything about economics when they probably haven't even finished highschool yet and most likely never owned a big successful company themselves - yet they know everything about what brings income to the company and what doesn't.

Shut up, you don't know anything except for what your OWN greedy little ass wants, so don't come here and make it sound like some kind of universal truth that your businesss model is the only and most successful one.

It's fine, and they will adjust accordingly during the process of the game when they have all statistics clear right infront of them and can theorycraft much better.

[Serenaki]

I love people who thinks they're so incredibly "game-smart" and knows everything about economics when they probably haven't even finished highschool yet and most likely never owned a big successful company themselves - yet they know everything about what brings income to the company and what doesn't.

Shut up, you don't know anything except for what your OWN greedy little ass wants, so don't come here and make it sound like some kind of universal truth that your businesss model is the only and most successful one.

It's fine, and they will adjust accordingly during the process of the game when they have all statistics clear right infront of them and can theorycraft much better.

Not to rain on your party of awareness, but some gaming companies fail pretty hard. Players leave and the game dies. Companies seem to understand business very well, what they seem to be lacking is an understanding of the way players like things. The way we think, which is irrelevant to them meaning they lose money, so really, they're not that smart.

[Xodi]

Not to rain on your party of awareness, but some gaming companies fail pretty hard. Players leave and the game dies. Companies seem to understand business very well, what they seem to be lacking is an understanding of the way players like things. The way we think, which is irrelevant to them meaning they lose money, so really, they're not that smart.

Newsflash: Most gamecompanies actually has *drumrolls* .. gamers! who works on developing games or balancing games. Either they game themselves, or they used to game themselves. And 99% sure most companies don't fail because of their cash shop model. There's a -_-load of other reasons for it.

I've seen these QQ threads in about 100+ other F2P games in a time period of over 10 years and it's always know-it-alls complaining and making empty threats about not playing the game and leave unless they change the price from 10$ to 5$ or anything else retarded they want to be changed to suit THEIR needs, and most of them pouts for a little bit, then they carry on playing, and maybe a tiny amount actually follows up with the threat and leaves, and those 4-5 people are instantly forgotten the next day, both by the players and by the company.

[Alleggretto]

It's simple on this case. "Give them what they want." or at least, address it.
You give us good prices/sales/items and fairness to the game, we give you money for yourself, and for more gaming content.
Everyone win's. Listen to your costumers. Gaming companies sometimes do not DO this at all.
Thus, they go into bussiness hell and shut down the game.
Nowadays, it's hard to get good games running because a lot of em' just shut down not even a good year on release.

[Serenaki]

Newsflash: Most gamecompanies actually has *drumrolls* .. gamers! who works on developing games or balancing games. Either they game themselves, or they used to game themselves. And 99% sure most companies don't fail because of their cash shop model. There's a -_-load of other reasons for it.

I've seen these QQ threads in about 100+ other F2P games in a time period of over 10 years and it's always know-it-alls complaining and making empty threats about not playing the game and leave unless they change the price from 10$ to 5$ or anything else retarded they want to be changed to suit THEIR needs, and most of them pouts for a little bit, then they carry on playing, and maybe a tiny amount actually follows up with the threat and leaves, and those 4-5 people are instantly forgotten the next day, both by the players and by the company.

Haha that one made me laugh, that is indeed true enough. The company will make changes as they see fit, it's just wise not to piss off their gamers to the point where they all quit. A few here and there, the business can deal with that no big deal.

All I'm saying is they should listen to the concern of their players and find a way to meet us halfway. If they lower something from $20 to like $17, better than nothing and players will be more passive, at least from what I've seen in other MMOs.

[Theoretical]

I take it you are one of those dudes that would like to subscribe to a game and get no buffs. If that is the case, MMOs are not for you.

I see your point, as for sub bonus's...I generally like the idea of a shop discount, and EXP modifiers. Perhaps even a drop modifier. But giving stats and HP/MP seems like it will cause imbalance.

[HitoriRoku]

Newsflash: Most gamecompanies actually has *drumrolls* .. gamers! who works on developing games or balancing games. Either they game themselves, or they used to game themselves. And 99% sure most companies don't fail because of their cash shop model. There's a -_-load of other reasons for it.

I've seen these QQ threads in about 100+ other F2P games in a time period of over 10 years and it's always know-it-alls complaining and making empty threats about not playing the game and leave unless they change the price from 10$ to 5$ or anything else retarded they want to be changed to suit THEIR needs, and most of them pouts for a little bit, then they carry on playing, and maybe a tiny amount actually follows up with the threat and leaves, and those 4-5 people are instantly forgotten the next day, both by the players and by the company.

I have seen companies selling ingame costumes for over $50 (and in one case $199). While i am not sure if i am allowed to mention other companies (so to be safe, i won't), but the thing that i can say is that the mentioned companies are very big ones.

So... how do you explain that?

[Sakarai]

your business model is the only and most successful one.

I think the reason you see so many complaints, especially in ports, is that a lot of times you will see carbon copies in both model and gameplay. I mean think about it. When you develop a game you're specifically catering to a single market, the same can be said with cash shops. When they port them those needs change because its a different market and there are different standards. A good example would be Phantasy Star Online 2 and it's process of "westernization" as sakai calls it. In other words they had to change certain mechanics in the game that suited the needs of the Japanese market to meet the needs/wants of Americans. A good example would be what the cash shop sells and its prices, weapon grinding, trading of 10* weapons, and gotchas (kind of like gambling). Other companies like NCsoft refuse to do this and it shows. I think its a healthy balance of both this process and listening to your players in order to keep the game running with a healthy community and making enough money to further development on content for the game while making a profit. It's definitely not easy and it isn't something that can be done in a week or even months. However, it does require attention at some point.

Edited by Sakarai, 22 April 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[Aeune]

Pay2win or don't play at all. It's business. They have to earn something out of this game.

[Serenaki]

Pay2win or don't play at all. It's business. They have to earn something out of this game.

They do but it doesn't have to be items that allow you to gain a strong advantage over another player. There are other means to earn money and keep the players happy. They are choosing the fastest method of earning money, but it's going to harm the game itself.

Edited by Serenaki, 22 April 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[Aeune]

Well from what I noticed at the other server, people buy stuff they can't buy using real money by using their zennies. So I guess there's a lot of ways to get a hold of these kafra items.

[Jargous]

Unfortunately, what caused a lot of harm to the SEA server is instant gratification items, but not just that. It was more of the COA incident. No details need to be described, but needless to say, it caused a very wide gap between those who were in at that time, and those who weren't.