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Full Support Sorcerer Guide & Discussion


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#26 1479130515162739107

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:30 PM

I went all the way to Varetyr Spear. I think the two options to consider is either going down to VS or maxing JT and spending the points elsewhere. JT mastery is a nice perk but I don't consider it all that crucial. However, if you like having more instant casts then two points max into JT mastery for best returns on those points spent. You just need to weigh out what is important, more utility/output increase through meditation or damage ability. I chose VS to keep my option open as a damage dealer and it is necessary if you want to make it consistently to late Colosseum rounds.

edit: Maxing JT would provide majority of your sustained damage, VS for burst/stun.


Ahh~ Ok! :p_idea:

Well, I don't like pvp of any type in any game I've ever played (just something about killing actual players turns me off. ;_; ) ... so I haven't gone into Colo, nor do I plan to. :hmm:

Should I just stick with maxing out Meditation / Soul Bind for "optimal" healing ... over maxing out JT/ JT Mastery or drop to VS to help me kill things faster? :pif: :questionmark:
(lol, I'm so used to killing things slowly!)

The possible builds:
FS w/full Meditation, Soul Bind & extra pts into Frost Bolt (?? open for opinions!): http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
FS w/full 4/5 Meditation, JT & JT Mastery: http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
Vaertyr Spear w/important support skills: http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

Edited by 1479130515162739107, 08 June 2013 - 11:39 PM.

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#27 Faythe

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 11:52 PM

I think its worthwhile to get at least the 3 points in JT just so you have an easier time doing things on your own. It makes up the vast majority of your damage output if you are ever in a dps position. Soul bind is definitely worth considering in a full support role. Let me explain meditation a bit just so you understand the difference between 1/5 and 5/5. Normally any critical effect is 200% of its normal cast. Meditation takes any hit over 95% and converts it to additional critical effect. So lets say you have 100% hit, which gives 5% for the meditation passive to work with. For 1/5 it ends up as 5% x 3.4 = 17%. For 5/5 it is 5% x 5 = 25%. Those figures get added to your critical multiplier to make it 217% or 225% criticals.

Lets say you toss a heal and it normally hits for 1000, crits for 2000. With 1/5 Med, it becomes 2170 for criticals. 5/5 becomes 2250. Roughly a 3.7% improvement based on the numbers I used. As gear gets better the gap widens a bit. You can ponder whether or not you think it is worthwhile to put points into. Just be mindful that it only affects criticals.

Now if my understanding of mediation is incorrect, someone please inform me.


This is the build that I use: http://www.ro2base.c...310238.22310238

I play all the aspects of the game that is given so far(minus hard raids, still working for the gear on that front). So I designed it to what I feel makes it adaptable to most situations. It retains most of the damage and healing output available. 4/5 deluge is potent enough of a cooldown in my opinion(I tell myself if Priests can get away with 15% then 16% should be fine >.>). The 4th point of healing wave gives it 2% on that point, all other points give 1% increase. Initially I had 1/3 Frost Diver but Colosseum changed that idea and it is a support cooldown in itself since you can potentially save damage taken from the tank if they kite.


I would say if you are leaning to be support heavy just simply use the first build you linked and move the points from Cold Bolt to Jupter Thunder. I personally don't think meditation is worth the four extra points. Some things to consider with those four.
- Go down and put one point into VS. It provides an added few seconds of crowd control and for leveling you can most likely still kill most monsters in a Frost Diver > Jupter Thunder > Vartyr Spear chain.
- Cold bolt would make up for the loss of VS in a sustained damage scenario
- Lightning bolt for pew pew
- Water arms if you are expecting to take a large damage attack that the 10% damage reduction would save you.
- Summon Aqua for fire and forget damage
The last two are rather weak but the same can be said for meditation in my opinion.

Edited by 8313130505202610980, 09 June 2013 - 12:31 AM.

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#28 Faythe

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:04 PM

Hmm, FS sorcs should be able to heal without any problems, i healed at 34 Payon Ruins normal mode, you can add that down the list.

A full FS would probably have zero problems there, whilst i healed it without much difficutly with Lv2 earth seal, Lv1 Healing Wave, Lv1 Deluge and Lv1 Rejuv and Lv1 LoR.

So bare minimum heal for that dung.


I'm pretty sure at this point that Sorcs are capable of healing all the dungeons while leveling. Will a Priest have an easier time? Perhaps. My Magic 8 ball says "Most likely so.". Public perception is still a little cool on Sorc healing. I queued up in a RHD last night and got promptly kicked before a mob was even pulled. One of the first lines: "priest? wtf". Oh well...requeued and found a more accepting/oblivious crowd.

On a side note I did heal for a good portion of a Baphoment(N) fight last night. One of the priests splatted about a quarter into the fight and I just healed from there. More or less as long as people stood in LoR things were a.o.k. But once people went to Gilligan's island & way wonder, things got a bit annoying. A person with the arrow kept on running away from healing and died to DoT damage. Sigh. Boss still died in the end with 2 or 3 people dead but I do wish we had a instant full heal cooldown. To the WoW folk, I want a Nature's Swiftness + Greater Healing Wave button.
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#29 Tlaltecuhtli

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 04:37 PM

In my opinion I do not think it is worthwhile for sorceresses put all their points into full support, some level of hybridization will yield better returns on points spent. This is not to say that full support is non-viable, I do believe we can heal, raids included. We would just have a harder time compared to priests since they have more tools at their disposal to handle different situations better. We heal hard dungeons fine and we just need to prove to the skeptical player base that it is doable. Time will tell whether or not that will drift into raid territory but I am confident we can heal in normal raids as well.
TL:DR - Overall sorceress healing is viable(up to hard raiding, have yet to test), priest is optimal. I think dps/hybrid priests with one point in each heal ability would be still all around a better healer than a full support Sorc. GL HF everyone.

all sorcs leaning to dps and healers should read what he said. all is, in my experience is true and that it makes your talents diverse.

one thing tho, about the raid distribution,
2 sorcs + 2 pri is optimal, 2 sorcs + 1 pri is for pro raid, 1 sorc + 2 pri tho would be hard except if the sorc is well experienced and have switching capabilities. 1 sorc + 1 pri brings a lot of challenge.
my team runs with 2 sorcs + 2 pri for timely deluge and sanc purposes.

i salute you sir for understanding and maximizing sorcs potential.

Ahh~ Ok! :p_idea:

Well, I don't like pvp of any type in any game I've ever played (just something about killing actual players turns me off. ;_; ) ... so I haven't gone into Colo, nor do I plan to. :hmm:

Should I just stick with maxing out Meditation / Soul Bind for "optimal" healing ... over maxing out JT/ JT Mastery or drop to VS to help me kill things faster? :pif: :questionmark:
(lol, I'm so used to killing things slowly!)

The possible builds:
FS w/full Meditation, Soul Bind & extra pts into Frost Bolt (?? open for opinions!): http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
FS w/full 4/5 Meditation, JT & JT Mastery: http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
Vaertyr Spear w/important support skills: http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0

1. dont get meditatio yet, spare it until you got over 105%. check the wow guy`s calculation.
2. get level 2 soul bind, a 32 minute cooldown with boost and guardian will go down to 19m, enough window for you and your team to rest when you get to boss fight.
3. max JT, itll be your 3 second burst skill, get atleast 1 VS if you want a 3 second disable tool for boss summon purposes. get it to lvl 5 for burst.
4. i still dont think leveling HW, as you can just add 1 spam of HW to compensate your healings and with agi build, x2 is better than +1% per level(-4 skill points for max).
5.
sooner or later you`ll just have to go colo because colo gears(armors and accessories) are the best armor you can have before entering both COA and AOD. itll boost up your HP a lot. a DPS or an FS sorc is a nuisance if youll just die every other time.
just live with FD+JT+lvl 1 LB spam if you dont have VS, or do FD+JT+VS on people/mob that is in low hp. get through lvl 3 or 4, thats enought to get you a staff for a week or two and the whole set in a month.
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#30 Finraziel

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 03:58 AM

I don't like pvp either. colo is sort of ok since there are no consequences, but I don't enjoy it. Even if you just hit the button to enter colo and walk away to get something to drink or something though, you'll still get blood points for having been in round 1.
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#31 Faythe

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 06:01 AM

get through lvl 3 or 4, thats enought to get you a staff for a week or two and the whole set in a month.


That is if you make all three Colosseum times which realistically not going to happen. With work and other commitments I can only do one most nights. I'm confident in making it to the last round every attempt since the class is favored in the Colosseum. My blood point income is around 300k a week. This last week I got close to 400k since I stayed up late for one night and got Champion two or three times. All in all I estimate it would take me 10-12 weeks for a whole set in my case since I assume at minimum I get 250k a week and the whole set costs close to three million. For the players that can make all three each day and make it to the last round then yes, you can get the whole set in about a month.


I don't like pvp either. colo is sort of ok since there are no consequences, but I don't enjoy it. Even if you just hit the button to enter colo and walk away to get something to drink or something though, you'll still get blood points for having been in round 1.


I'm not a big fan of it either but it is the best gear available. In my case 10-12 weeks is not too unreasonable to get full best in slots in a MMO setting. I already have my weapon and will probably get the chest in a few days so I have about seven or eight more weeks of this stupidity.


But in any case, to point this discussion more towards the thread; Colosseum gear is the best obtainable gear at this time and for a full support Sorc it will be a little difficult without JT at least. With JT making it to the 3rd and 4th rounds consistently is very plausible. Getting champion would be a stretch but not impossible, just got to get the kill steals in. I'm sure there is a full support sorc out there running around just lightning bolt spamming got champion one day but the stars don't align that often.
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#32 1479130515162739107

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:05 AM

Lets say you toss a heal and it normally hits for 1000, crits for 2000. With 1/5 Med, it becomes 2170 for criticals. 5/5 becomes 2250. Roughly a 3.7% improvement based on the numbers I used. As gear gets better the gap widens a bit. You can ponder whether or not you think it is worthwhile to put points into. Just be mindful that it only affects criticals.


Holey moley... :p_omg:
You must be a math wiz, because that's pretty much a foreign language to me. :p_swt: But wow, it made Meditation make more sense! It appears that you skipped it all together, so perhaps I should just pass it for other skills. I guess meditation would possibly be more effective for your stat alotment (the 51/27/3, rather than 40/40/8, which is what I fell into without thinking much about it.)

I -really- like your spec. :p_love: If I had a re-spec scroll, I'd follow that. I dunno why, but it seems to make sense to me out of all the ones I've seen.
By the looks of it, you have a strong focus on FS (which is what I desire), yet hold onto being a hybrid for those moments where you need to just switch roles and kill or be killed in a raid setting, eh? :p_laugh:

Since I am unable to follow your spec atm, would this be a decent compromise? http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
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#33 1479130515162739107

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:11 AM

I'm pretty sure at this point that Sorcs are capable of healing all the dungeons while leveling. Will a Priest have an easier time? Perhaps. My Magic 8 ball says "Most likely so.". Public perception is still a little cool on Sorc healing. I queued up in a RHD last night and got promptly kicked before a mob was even pulled. One of the first lines: "priest? wtf". Oh well...requeued and found a more accepting/oblivious crowd.

On a side note I did heal for a good portion of a Baphoment(N) fight last night. One of the priests splatted about a quarter into the fight and I just healed from there. More or less as long as people stood in LoR things were a.o.k. But once people went to Gilligan's island & way wonder, things got a bit annoying. A person with the arrow kept on running away from healing and died to DoT damage. Sigh. Boss still died in the end with 2 or 3 people dead but I do wish we had a instant full heal cooldown. To the WoW folk, I want a Nature's Swiftness + Greater Healing Wave button.


Reading this made me snicker... although since I normally start the groups with my tank buddy (ah~ nothing beats just filling up with ignorant dps'ers <.<). I'm not sure how that'll be once we both hit the end-game content, but as of right now, I still get the "wtf no healer/priest?" in party chat the moment they join. Then I just say "Sorcerers have a healing tree; we can heal too, just stay in the green goop and you'll be g2g" and they either quit our group, die a lot, or just be a nice pugger and behave in the green goop. XD
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#34 Faythe

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:32 AM

I chose Sorc while combing through the class list just cause it had healing abilities and I went in with the intent of healing mostly. It's a role I grew accustomed to after playing WoW for many years though it pigeon holed me. A guild member said, "You can't pretend to be all of a sudden a bad healer". So I was pretty much stuck but I enjoyed it nonetheless. However after reading about and playing the class I see now that we are just at a disadvantage in some areas against Priests. The only reason why my build works out the way it does is cause all those extra points into the support abilities don't carry a lot of tangible gains in my opinion. With all the extra points I might as well just max out on damage and I think I found a good balance on what I want to achieve. I went a critical focused build to get the most out of earth seal. The proc itself is nearly as strong as a normal healing wave in a HoT form and there is a threshold where Agi overtakes Int in terms of output gains. So I planned my build on future scaling as well. Though everything I say here could be totally wrong. :P

As for as the build you linked, I think is fine. I would consider moving two points from VS to Soul Bind for a more support focused player. VS is simply a burst and disable ability. Remember though that the monster needs to be either frozen in Frost Diver or you need a Wind Arms proc for the stun to take effect. In terms of damage, with three points it is equal to JT. Your solo/leveling experience will be fine if left at one point or none at all IMO. If you do ever do choose to PvP then having VS alone will allow you to be competitive, albeit with a little less burst. However, I did read that PvP is not your cup of tea. I skimmed your blog site a bit and looked at one of the comments on build suggestions. I guess since you have two points to float around you could consider LoV as well to assist in aoe damage if you want to go down that road. Just another idea to bring up. Honestly you can save those two last points and decide when you hit 49/50. Neither of those last two points will be a deal breaker and you can experiment with the content a bit until you find a comfortable solution.


Edit: Oh cool, they changed my nickname from that random string of numbers. Now if only I got to it first in game -_-


Reading this made me snicker... although since I normally start the groups with my tank buddy (ah~ nothing beats just filling up with ignorant dps'ers <.<). I'm not sure how that'll be once we both hit the end-game content, but as of right now, I still get the "wtf no healer/priest?" in party chat the moment they join. Then I just say "Sorcerers have a healing tree; we can heal too, just stay in the green goop and you'll be g2g" and they either quit our group, die a lot, or just be a nice pugger and behave in the green goop. XD


That reminds me when I first got LoR. It was during Izlude caves and I was just putting it down to help the priest and the tank/melee dps kept running out of it. It was amusing to watch. Eventually I mentioned that it was a heal and they should stand in it but someone in the party said it was a poison that does damage. I scratched my head for a moment but just went along with and kept placing it on them to watch them run out.

Edited by Faythe, 10 June 2013 - 10:19 AM.

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#35 Kiyoshiro

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 11:34 AM

That reminds me when I first got LoR. It was during Izlude caves and I was just putting it down to help the priest and the tank/melee dps kept running out of it. It was amusing to watch. Eventually I mentioned that it was a heal and they should stand in it but someone in the party said it was a poison that does damage. I scratched my head for a moment but just went along with and kept placing it on them to watch them run out.

o_o...

I'm amazed by how many people don't even realize Sorcerers have healing skills. I haven't met such people yet, and I hope I never do. This community is sadder than I thought...
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#36 Faythe

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:10 PM

Well, I don't like pvp of any type in any game I've ever played (just something about killing actual players turns me off. ;_; ) ... so I haven't gone into Colo, nor do I plan to. :hmm:


I forgot to mention one thing. There are monsters that spawn in the Colosseum as well for you to kill if you do not want to harm players. Remember that ranking points are awarded to the actual killing blow instead and not damage done. The monsters start spawning about 45sec - 1min in each round. You can get past the 2nd and 3rd rounds pretty easily by just going after the monsters. A good chance that most monsters will just die to Frost Diver > JT. If not Lightning Bolt spam to get the last bit of health. Getting through the 4th round is doable as well.
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#37 1479130515162739107

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:52 PM

Edit: Oh cool, they changed my nickname from that random string of numbers. Now if only I got to it first in game -_-


:o Lucky! I'm still a lot of numbers. I've looked everywhere in the prefs to change it, but no dice. ; ;

Also, thanks for the input on my spec. I'll do as you said. ^^; Max out SB and leave VS at 1.



o_o...

I'm amazed by how many people don't even realize Sorcerers have healing skills. I haven't met such people yet, and I hope I never do. This community is sadder than I thought...


You've been super lucky! ; ; I've met more people shocked by it than not shocked. The only non-shocked players are those who HAVE a sorcerer alt. ( ´ ▽ ` )

Edited by 1479130515162739107, 10 June 2013 - 11:36 PM.

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#38 Faythe

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:35 AM

o_o...

I'm amazed by how many people don't even realize Sorcerers have healing skills. I haven't met such people yet, and I hope I never do. This community is sadder than I thought...


Every community has its set standards that takes time to warm up to things outside the norm. Maybe next reset I'll advertise myself as a Full Support Sorc and will only join a raid if they allow me to heal full time. I'm doubtful it'll go well for finding a group but we'll see.

:o Lucky! I'm still a lot of numbers. I've looked everywhere in the prefs to change it, but no dice. ; ;

Also, thanks for the input on my spec. I'll do as you said. ^^; Max out SB and leave VS at 1.


I had to throw up a support ticket to request a name change. I'm pretty sure I never saw an option whiling signing up. Maybe it was different if done through Steam. No problem, good luck & have fun.
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#39 StrawberriKiwi

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 12:45 PM

o_o... I'm amazed by how many people don't even realize Sorcerers have healing skills. I haven't met such people yet, and I hope I never do. This community is sadder than I thought...


Lol. i've met quite a few. However, they will never be able to take the place of a priest in raids, rhd. I'm not full support but i'm certain hybrids are just as loved in a raid since they can take some pressure off the priests. I have the same thought as you. My friend was like telling me how she was talking to sorcs in her guild and telling them its stupid to go all DPS, but srsly, all the care about is OH HEY I CAN HIT 6k crit. Well, it's all fine, til the new dungeons come out, they will regret that they were hard-headed and thought it was stupid to get healing skills :)
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#40 Faythe

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:28 AM

Lol. i've met quite a few. However, they will never be able to take the place of a priest in raids, rhd. I'm not full support but i'm certain hybrids are just as loved in a raid since they can take some pressure off the priests. I have the same thought as you. My friend was like telling me how she was talking to sorcs in her guild and telling them its stupid to go all DPS, but srsly, all the care about is OH HEY I CAN HIT 6k crit. Well, it's all fine, til the new dungeons come out, they will regret that they were hard-headed and thought it was stupid to get healing skills :)



Depending on the level of content a healing Sorc can definitely take the place of a healing Priest. Sorcs do put out flashy numbers and if that is what people enjoy then so be it. If a guild brick walls cause their Sorcs didn't get Deluge or LoR then skill scroll or find a new strategy.


It took awhile but I was able to get into a Baphomet normal group as a healer. All in all, it was fine although this isn't really a good gauge on Sorc ability considering the raid is somewhat of a joke. Smooth with no wipes although I am getting a bit tired of groups always cheesing the 3rd boss with pull and leash tactics. It may be a hardmode strategy but no need to do it on this level. When I first started doing this place it was done properly but the last few groups I've been in have wasted more time with this tactic than not.
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#41 StrawberriKiwi

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Posted 17 June 2013 - 05:02 PM

Depending on the level of content a healing Sorc can definitely take the place of a healing Priest. Sorcs do put out flashy numbers and if that is what people enjoy then so be it. If a guild brick walls cause their Sorcs didn't get Deluge or LoR then skill scroll or find a new strategy.


It took awhile but I was able to get into a Baphomet normal group as a healer. All in all, it was fine although this isn't really a good gauge on Sorc ability considering the raid is somewhat of a joke. Smooth with no wipes although I am getting a bit tired of groups always cheesing the 3rd boss with pull and leash tactics. It may be a hardmode strategy but no need to do it on this level. When I first started doing this place it was done properly but the last few groups I've been in have wasted more time with this tactic than not.


It's very very hard in the sense that, most parties are looking for a sorc who can DPS. They won't, even if the sorc can heal for a raid like bapho N, take a sorc in for a priest, especially when sorcs can compete with certain tokens so if they were to take like 2 sorcs for healing instead of taking a priest, i'm pretty sure they'd take the priest. i'm not fully geared yet as i just maxed out on this server but LoR cannot compete with Renovatio. Considering both priest and sorc were geared with Rhd, I'm certain the priest would still have more heal (unless they were dumb enough to go full battle priest) with renovatio when compared to LoR. It's also preferred because you can wonder around when renovatio is casted instead of standing in a group. I'm certain if you are a full support, you can still do the dungeons with parties that listen to briefings and what not but if its just a random party you pulled together, most will just ditch when they see that it's a sorc healing. Sorcs are meant to help with the dps, not just healing, so it would favor them most if they were hybrid - not full FS, not full Dps.
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#42 HolyxD

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:02 PM

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#43 Faythe

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 07:18 AM

It's very very hard in the sense that, most parties are looking for a sorc who can DPS. They won't, even if the sorc can heal for a raid like bapho N, take a sorc in for a priest, especially when sorcs can compete with certain tokens so if they were to take like 2 sorcs for healing instead of taking a priest, i'm pretty sure they'd take the priest. i'm not fully geared yet as i just maxed out on this server but LoR cannot compete with Renovatio. Considering both priest and sorc were geared with Rhd, I'm certain the priest would still have more heal (unless they were dumb enough to go full battle priest) with renovatio when compared to LoR. It's also preferred because you can wonder around when renovatio is casted instead of standing in a group. I'm certain if you are a full support, you can still do the dungeons with parties that listen to briefings and what not but if its just a random party you pulled together, most will just ditch when they see that it's a sorc healing. Sorcs are meant to help with the dps, not just healing, so it would favor them most if they were hybrid - not full FS, not full Dps.


I disagree with a large bulk of your post. One of your reasons in not opening up to healing Sorcs is cause of raid tokens. That its irrelavant. The problem has to do more of how the classes are designed. Just as Priests are pigeonholed to heal, the same can be said for Sorcs to be hybrids. A Priest should be able to serve as a hybrid role as well but the community has developed its 'intended role' mindset. Just as much as I would like Sorc's healing toolkit to be more rounded and to be more accepted, I would say the same for a Priest dps acceptance.

LoR and Renovatio are directly comparable with one another. There are pros and cons to both abilities but overall I would say LoR is more powerful and Renovatio more flexible depending on the situation. LoR is very time efficient, you lay it down and it heals for a uniform amount for the duration that gets more efficient the more people stand in it. In between refreshes you are free to do what you please such as throwing out healing waves to those that are not in LoR or simply heal the tank. Added to that is LoR can crit and can stack with other LoR. On the other hand with Renovatio it takes alot of time to ramp up its healing. You have the potential to cover everyone in a raid with it but you are then stuck refreshing Renovatio with no time to do anything else. Renovatio is flexible in that you can catch single targets that may not be within the LoR clump. The downside is that HoTs cannot crit, nor can they stack with one another. Renovatio being able to be casted on the move is great but the problem is moreso Sorc not having an ability that can be casted on the move.

Your mindset that Sorcs should always be hybrid and Priests be superior in healing is as toxic and rigid as most of the community. Bring placed into situations where a Sorc healing and the Priests are dead is just thrilling to prove doubters wrong. In a few days or week I'll accumulate the gear necessary to go into hard mode raids and I'll see for myself whether or not Sorc healing is doable there or if there is a brick wall that cannot be scaled.
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#44 Faythe

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 10:10 AM

So this morning I decided to try to do some PvE hard mode before reset and also get a taste for the place. All in all it is much more interesting than normal modes in design and it seems I would have enough health as I am currently. I had some interesting experiences which gives me a bit of hope in terms of how a FS would be able to perform.

First Boss(I don't look at nor remember these bosses names)
- Large scale AoE which should be deluge/sanc. In terms of timing I think it works out that you can do a deluge every other AoE. I didn't pay attention too closely on that since there was a set rotation and I was assigned to the 4th aoe.
- One of the Priests died on the 3rd AoE(didn't get their Sanc off on top of having lower health), I swapped over to healing full time from there and it was pretty smooth and straight forward in terms of healing. Boss was probably around 70% at the time and killed it from there.

Second Boss
- The large AoE on this fight definitely has enough time in between that deluge can be used on every single one. The poison AoE seems like it can be placed anywhere unlike only melee in normal. This put us into a situation once where a poison patch was placed right before the large aoe which forced the group to move and delay cooldown usage. I would just chalk that on as bad luck.
- One of the attempts had both Priests die along with a monk dps(bathed in poison), an assassin may have died as well but I'm pretty sure seven people were still alive. The boss was about 50-60% at the time. I swapped to healing and it was pretty smooth healing until the boss enraged due to time(boss had like <50k life left). The other Sorc kept dpsing and every now and then dropped a LoR on the tank. I checked several times and never saw the Sorc swapped into Earth Seal. So I basically solo healed the fight with little issue and the way the AoE timing works out made it easy to cover everyone in deluge.

Third Bosses
- I am not sure if this group was positioning or doing the bosses correctly. Regardless there was alot of movement this fight in terms of AoE dodging if that is how the fight is designed. Or maybe it was designed so that we are suppose to take the AoE damage. There's not much to speak of here in terms of healing cept I picked up the healing when a Priest was falling behind along with spot heals on raid. We didn't kill the boss and the raid was about to reset so it ended there. Hit the enrage timer once and we were pretty far off in dps. I had some moments where I my palm crashed into my forehead such as when the Monk dps literally ran from the a boss to a fire aoe and bathed in it. I healed him once through it, but the 2nd time I just let his soul burn to ashes.
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#45 Darkriff

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:11 AM

 

2 . Max both Earth and Wind and learn switching arms during your skill cycles. Earth for Heal % increase and Wind for Haste and chance of procuring x2-x4 bursts.

This is a FS guide, he already stated that, having both DPS and healing spells makes you hybrid, which this guide isn't in reference to.

 

3. You should NOT HEAL all the time since in a standard raid you may have 2-3 sorcs and 1-2 priests so switching stances maximize your sorc`s ability. Let the priest do most of the single target heals and you should stick on emergency single target heals, keeping LOR up and timing of Deluge vs Monster skill.

I 100% disagree. In my guild we have me (a pure FS Sorc) and 1 priest. The priest worries about the tank and melee, and I take care of the ranged with LoR and Healing Wave, healing on the tank as needed, especially during boss AoEs. This ensures all members staying nearly full to full health at all times. I doubt a class was created with the sole purpose of "backing up" another class, that just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

4. Higher raids needs a lot of damage dealers and healers! and with a good sorc build, you can just apply for both! XD
Again I disagree, you should be able to cut it with just 2 healers, anything more than that and your problem isn't the healing, it's more than likely your dps not dealing damage as well as they should be.  This isn't just me popping off at the mouth, this is due to experience. Two good healers is all you'll need for any raid.

 

 


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#46 Darkriff

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:22 AM

a sorc is by default, a hybrid! deal with it and a party who does not understand what a sorc can do is not worth the raid time.
 

Please note that I'm not trying to bash you or flame you in any way. I just simply disagree. The nerf that was performed on Sorcerers in SEA was to prevent this. They didn't want a true hybrid class although you still see it today. This is why they nerfed all Sorc healing by 50% and made Earth Seal heal 100% instead of the 10% it originally was. It's also why they restructured the talent trees for Sorc, so that hybrid builds weren't as viable, and again also why they made it so that the increased healing from Earth Seal stopped the second you change seals. Previously you could throw down a LoR in Earth Seal then switch to Wind Arms and still retain the benefits of the increased healing from LoR.

 


Edited by Darkriff, 03 July 2013 - 02:50 AM.

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#47 StrawberriKiwi

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:25 AM

I disagree with a large bulk of your post. One of your reasons in not opening up to healing Sorcs is cause of raid tokens. That its irrelavant. The problem has to do more of how the classes are designed. Just as Priests are pigeonholed to heal, the same can be said for Sorcs to be hybrids. A Priest should be able to serve as a hybrid role as well but the community has developed its 'intended role' mindset. Just as much as I would like Sorc's healing toolkit to be more rounded and to be more accepted, I would say the same for a Priest dps acceptance.

LoR and Renovatio are directly comparable with one another. There are pros and cons to both abilities but overall I would say LoR is more powerful and Renovatio more flexible depending on the situation. LoR is very time efficient, you lay it down and it heals for a uniform amount for the duration that gets more efficient the more people stand in it. In between refreshes you are free to do what you please such as throwing out healing waves to those that are not in LoR or simply heal the tank. Added to that is LoR can crit and can stack with other LoR. On the other hand with Renovatio it takes alot of time to ramp up its healing. You have the potential to cover everyone in a raid with it but you are then stuck refreshing Renovatio with no time to do anything else. Renovatio is flexible in that you can catch single targets that may not be within the LoR clump. The downside is that HoTs cannot crit, nor can they stack with one another. Renovatio being able to be casted on the move is great but the problem is moreso Sorc not having an ability that can be casted on the move.

Your mindset that Sorcs should always be hybrid and Priests be superior in healing is as toxic and rigid as most of the community. Bring placed into situations where a Sorc healing and the Priests are dead is just thrilling to prove doubters wrong. In a few days or week I'll accumulate the gear necessary to go into hard mode raids and I'll see for myself whether or not Sorc healing is doable there or if there is a brick wall that cannot be scaled.

 

LoR can stack with each other but for most times, like u said due to tokens and also cuz they would prefer more dps. They would totally take a hybrid sorc over a full dps or full support sorc. It doesnt matter if its less time efficient. For some bosses u are asked to spread out, who are u gonna stack the LoR then?

From all the past experience with me as a sorc and my friend as a priest, she'd be outdoing me at the same level. I'm currently stacked on all hard raid mode gears (except for shoes) + a CoA staff and my LOR at best crits at 800. My friend's renovatio goes at 500~600 without crit. Not to mention that she's a hybrid priest. Meaning she can go in and smack things after renovatio. I'd rather be able to move around on renovatio then to have to constantly stand on LoR. I've seen full support sorcs in a party before on SEA but he only pops his earthshield in when the priest has died. Even then, he can't really keep the party that he's healing alive in CoA. There may be many opinions on this but ofc, its really rare for parties to accept a sorc who says their full support. Maybe you'll be the one to prove everyone wrong, but in the end, priests would still be preferred by most, hybrid or FS. 

 

Sorry for the whole wall of text btw. Not saying u can't do it but most people wouldn't go along with it which is why most choose to go hybrid x_x


Edited by StrawberriKiwi, 12 July 2013 - 09:29 AM.

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#48 Zulyar2

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:54 PM

ES sis a pretty garbage skil and you may want to put its points elsewhere then in filling es, the reason is it only increases base defense of a class, heres the graphs of endgame gear~

 

well if the knight has 47% reducktion es would buff it to 56.4%
a warrior has 1 third less then knight? this means he has 31.3% base defense, es would buff this to 37,6 defense.
if a bm has 75% of the warrior he'd have 23.457 base defense. es would buff a bm to 28,152 defense.
if a monk has 50% of the warrior as someone mentioned he has ; 15.65 defense. es would buff it to 18.78

class-------------base---------------es buffed----------defense increase AFTER THEIR OWN ABILITIES.
knight------------47%----------------56.4%-------------------9.4% defense increase
Warrior----------31.3%--------------37.6%-------------------6.3% defense increase
BM---------------23.457% ---------28.152%-----------------4.705% defense increase
monk------------15.65%-------------18.78%-----------------3.13% defense increase

note that the ES buff to these classes does not get multiplied by their tanking forms/abilities. making es pretty bad for anything but a knight and it aint THAT big of a deal for knights either. lets say warriors like it too, this means 2/10 classes get some use out of ES.

 

 


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#49 StrawberriKiwi

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 09:02 PM

UGH its my bad, i meant earth seal ! Lol. 


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#50 Faythe

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:20 AM

LoR can stack with each other but for most times, like u said due to tokens and also cuz they would prefer more dps. They would totally take a hybrid sorc over a full dps or full support sorc. It doesnt matter if its less time efficient. For some bosses u are asked to spread out, who are u gonna stack the LoR then?

From all the past experience with me as a sorc and my friend as a priest, she'd be outdoing me at the same level. I'm currently stacked on all hard raid mode gears (except for shoes) + a CoA staff and my LOR at best crits at 800. My friend's renovatio goes at 500~600 without crit. Not to mention that she's a hybrid priest. Meaning she can go in and smack things after renovatio. I'd rather be able to move around on renovatio then to have to constantly stand on LoR. I've seen full support sorcs in a party before on SEA but he only pops his earthshield in when the priest has died. Even then, he can't really keep the party that he's healing alive in CoA. There may be many opinions on this but ofc, its really rare for parties to accept a sorc who says their full support. Maybe you'll be the one to prove everyone wrong, but in the end, priests would still be preferred by most, hybrid or FS. 

 

Sorry for the whole wall of text btw. Not saying u can't do it but most people wouldn't go along with it which is why most choose to go hybrid x_x

 

This doesn't come down to dps, hybrid, or support.  It's a matter whether or not Sorcs should and can heal.  And to an extent yes they can.  How far?  I don't know yet, my interest in the game has been slipping as of late and haven't been playing as much.  But at least in CoA, I've healed the first two bosses on normal.  Haven't tried beyond that yet, all the groups broke up or I had to leave after the 2nd boss.  Like I said in my previous post, LoR and Renovatio both have their pros and cons yet are designed .  You are just making arguments to stress LoR downsides and at the same time shining up Renovatio.  I am not a full support myself, I just want to heal and Priests will always be preferred until maybe when the Soul Maker class comes around.

 

At least with the first boss encounter of CoA there are two cases where I had to heal when the priest(s) died.  One time is when the priest died on the very first boss and we just left him/her dead and I healed til the end.  Next time was while working on the last boss both Priests managed to die with the boss still about 50-60%, other Sorc was already dead.  Pretty sure I had some luck on my side but still managed to keep the raid alive and see the bosses dead.


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