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Wizards: An afterthought?


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#1 SorcerousPhantom

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:23 AM

The title should explain quite a bit of my point already.

Wizards are my favourite class, but for the most part, this is due to their outfits and their potential, rather than what they are right now.
I am quite sure anyone who's played a wizard has noticed the many flaws they have, however, the more I look at them, the more the class feels like an afterthought, as if though it had been made last and with little patience.

The purpose of this topic is to summarise these points so that they will hopefully be fixe din the future, but I will not be delving into too much detail, particularily with the skills, as I have seen many topics by now in regards to the subject.

On that very note, it's well-known that wizards have the most shallow skill tree off of all classes. Something surprising, considering how versatille they were in RO1, though alas, there's no such thing as elemental weaknesses to exploit in RO2.

Most of the skills you get are there to make your Fire Ball and your Fire Bolt better. Then you have a wide area Damage Over Time given by a basic Inferno and a mastered Firestarter, and probably the most remembered wizard skill; Meteor Shower. Other than that, Frost Nova, Ice Wall and Teleport are the only worthwhile skills for a wizard.

How shallow and simple this skill tree is can be very sad sometimes, because not only is it boring, it even falls weak when you compare it to a DPS Sorcerer or Priest. Although this doesn't mean wizards have a bad DPS at all, their lack of flexibility renders wizards frail and vulnerable to most environments.
Without a doubt, skills are the first thing Wizards need rebalanced, or revamped altogether into a more fun class.

In regards to skills, however, lies the main point of what makes me think Wizards are afterthroughts in general; The animations.

Wizards have the most boring and mediocre animations of all classes out of what I have seen. They are not exactly unfitting, but they are dreadfully simple and usually are recycled from other classes or other skills they own themselves.

When you look at Sorcerors, you can see how livid their movements are even for quick spells. Wizards, however, are very stale and look as if though they were bored when they fight; particularily with Meteor Storm or Frost Nova. Even Flame Explosion is pitifully simple.

On a related note, is the fact that wizards never use their rods for anything whatsoever. In fact, their rods look identical to Sorceror's staves in every way.
For how they cast barehanded, you'd think Wizards would use books, tomes, or something of that effect as weapons. Not that it'd make much of a difference, considering how they never unsheathe their weapons during battle at all.

The wizard classes were always my favourite back in RO1, and here, I really feel they could become something good. So far, whata ppeals me the mos tabout them would be, like I mentioned before, their wardrobe (Aside form the fact that male wizards lose their pants when donning their robes starting at level 40), as well as their moderate DPS, but it really is no secret that this class is in serious need for attention.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 17 May 2013 - 06:29 AM.

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#2 Kabraxis

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:31 AM

Wizards an afterthought? I think the Beastmasters of the world have something to say to you.

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#3 SorcerousPhantom

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:33 AM

Wizards an afterthought? I think the Beastmasters of the world have something to say to you.

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I think you're right, actually!
At least you get to turn into animals, albeit only 3, one of which is a reskin of another.

Beastmasters do, however, have a little bit more class versatillity, in spite of having moderately more useless weapons and dull mechanics at times.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 17 May 2013 - 06:33 AM.

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#4 Jargous

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:35 AM

I will not be surprised if Wizards get a major buff in the next job. Until then, Wizards are only looked for for Dragonology, and that's about it. However, don't consider that to simply be an afterthought, players tend to underestimate how powerful a wizard can be for an off-tanking assist.
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#5 SorcerousPhantom

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:37 AM

I will not be surprised if Wizards get a major buff in the next job. Until then, Wizards are only looked for for Dragonology, and that's about it. However, don't consider that to simply be an afterthought, players tend to underestimate how powerful a wizard can be for an off-tanking assist.

I've had to tank a few times (*SHUDDER*) and I suppose I do see your point. The wizard's current potential lies mostly in DPS and AoE rather than anything else, though most people just see a walking Dragonology when they look at one.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 17 May 2013 - 06:38 AM.

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#6 Pooksie

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:44 AM

I think most people underestimate how much DPS a wizard can do. :c
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#7 Viiolent

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:47 AM

I think most people underestimate how much DPS a wizard can do. :c

That wasn't his point. Wizards do fine dps, Albeit maybe a bit too low. He's saying they feel rushed and their animations are lifeless and boring. Which I would agree with. I had a wiz to 35 in beta. Switched to sorc on release. The difference in quality is staggering.
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#8 flysteps

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:47 AM

O pitiful Wizard

inb4
There was a rant thread made once.
http://forums.warppo...d-about-wizard/

Just hoping for what Jargous said to be true, someday

Edited by flysteps, 17 May 2013 - 06:49 AM.

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#9 Pooksie

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:53 AM

That wasn't his point. Wizards do fine dps, Albeit maybe a bit too low. He's saying they feel rushed and their animations are lifeless and boring. Which I would agree with. I had a wiz to 35 in beta. Switched to sorc on release. The difference in quality is staggering.

I don't know. I don't see what so much more special about the rest of the classes ;/
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#10 SorcerousPhantom

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:55 AM

O pitiful Wizard

inb4
There was a rant thread made once.
http://forums.warppo...d-about-wizard/

Just hoping for what Jargous said to be true, someday

I can actually see a third class fixing wizards...!
If it were to bring it more variety, however, I'd imagine it would involve a full skill reset akin to that of a Monk or Beastmaster, as though to finally let go of Fire Bolt.
I feel that's a little unlikely, but it might just be the revamp we need.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 17 May 2013 - 06:55 AM.

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#11 SuperGlue

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:58 AM

Well all I know is that I'll happily wear my Founder title on my wiz :)
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#12 ODKN

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:05 AM

You want to complain about Variety? Monks and Beastmasters don't even have access to their previous skills. <_< At least with Wizard they will all have more noticeable differences.
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#13 SorcerousPhantom

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:07 AM

You want to complain about Variety? Monks and Beastmasters don't even have access to their previous skills. <_< At least with Wizard they will all have more noticeable differences.

What we have is far from variety, I'm afraid. You get a full page full of skills to compensate for what you lose. Taking a glimpse at the full Wizard Skill tree should be enough to tell you how lackluster our skill rotation is. Not only that, but Frost Diver, Water Emblem (unless coupled with Seal Explosion, and only occassionally between battles), Thuderstorm (pfft) and Wind Emblem are almost completely useless to us. Take those away and we have a grand total of 8 non-passive or buffing skills, 6 of which are very circumstancial and 1 which you can only use effectively with a 20% chance by spamming the single one that works as butter and bread for you.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 17 May 2013 - 07:11 AM.

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#14 ODKN

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:10 AM

What we have is far from variety, I'm afraid. You get a full page full of skills to compensate for what you lose. Taking a glimpse at the full Wizard Skill tree should be enough to tell you how lackluster our skill rotation is. Not only that, but Frost Diver, Water Emblem, Thuderstorm (pfft) and Wind Emblem are almost completely useless to us.


Did that Wizard max out Frost Nova? We'll find out when the adds respawn in 30 seconds.

Did that Wizard max out Ice Wall? We'll find out when he dies horribly in three minutes.

etc.

Each Wizard will have little nuances that will make them play differently. Monk and Beastmasters pretty much play the exact same as each other.
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#15 SorcerousPhantom

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:12 AM

Did that Wizard max out Frost Nova? We'll find out when the adds respawn in 30 seconds.

Did that Wizard max out Ice Wall? We'll find out when he dies horribly in three minutes.

etc.

Each Wizard will have little nuances that will make them play differently. Monk and Beastmasters pretty much play the exact same as each other.


We have a grand total of 8 non-passive or buffing skills, 6 of which are very circumstancial and 1 which you can only use effectively with a 20% chance by spamming the single one that works as butter and bread for you.

On a side note, maxing out Frost nova is arguably useless, as you rarely ever need to freeze minions rather than burn them with Meteor Storm or Inferno, and levelling it up only reduces cooldown. It works well at Level 1.

Ice Wall is an emergency button.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 17 May 2013 - 07:13 AM.

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#16 IronPlushy

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:15 AM

As you would say, if you dont like it play something else
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#17 Jargous

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:02 AM

O pitiful Wizard

inb4
There was a rant thread made once.
http://forums.warppo...d-about-wizard/

Just hoping for what Jargous said to be true, someday


Too bad it's only rumors, but you can see that Sorcerers have 4 elements to play with (1 useless which is fire) and Wizards only have 3. They should be getting another element (possibly two) which would level the playing field quite a bit. From what was been said, players think LoR is going to be the OP skill in the current WoE coming up, once 3rd job comes around, players would think about it when they a wizard around (think of a field DoT).
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#18 SorcerousPhantom

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:05 AM

Too bad it's only rumors, but you can see that Sorcerers have 4 elements to play with (1 useless which is fire) and Wizards only have 3. They should be getting another element (possibly two) which would level the playing field quite a bit. From what was been said, players think LoR is going to be the OP skill in the current WoE coming up, once 3rd job comes around, players would think about it when they a wizard around (think of a field DoT).

Their third class would probaly be called Warlock in accordance to RO1, in whcih case I can see many curse-themed DoT spells and the sort happening.

Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 17 May 2013 - 08:08 AM.

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#19 SOS101

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 08:26 AM

I've had to tank a few times (*SHUDDER*) and I suppose I do see your point. The wizard's current potential lies mostly in DPS and AoE rather than anything else, though most people just see a walking Dragonology when they look at one.

We wizards are not meant to be tanks. <.< we are meant to be the nukes of the game, I hope if and when we get the next job that we will get a buff. I miss my jupel thunder as a wizard. :<
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#20 iyoter

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 09:15 AM

@OP
I do agree with most of what you said specially about the boring part. However, I don't agree about the DPS. Wizards have the BEST DPS in game (because Rogues die a lot). They tops Rangers DPS in CoA where bosses have 2m hp.

Anyways, have you tried this build? http://www.ro2skills...rbdBeBqEeFqAjQ1
There's a guy from SEA who has that build. I was curious so I tried it too. The boring part is still there, but that build is really fun in Colo. Although it will also lower your DPS to a certain degree.

Edit
Also, this too.

their lack of flexibility renders wizards frail and vulnerable to most environments.

That's not quite right. Seal Explo + Water Seal; Tele; Ice Wall; Range advantage; this things make the Wiz the last man standing in most situation.

Edited by iyoter, 17 May 2013 - 09:49 AM.

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#21 Riakuta

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:02 AM

What you talking about. I love wizard that +10% INT increase really helps my damage as a Sorcerer!
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#22 awayish

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:12 AM

just make the cast animation faster by a factor of 2, kthx.
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#23 Bestie

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 10:17 AM

Ive never played a Wizard in any game b4 RO2 - yay trying something different. But I was an FS for a wiz/hwiz in ro1 and an FS for a wiz in EQ2. I decided to try one here, becuz like the OP said , the outfits !!!! my char LOOKS awesome. Idk how she compares in dps / lvling becuz I have no experience for grounds of observation. But I will say that its true that ppl really <3 that buff, but other wise don't seem to be excited bout u one way or the other.

I WISH wizzies would unsheathe their wpn >< Right now I look like a fighting character in a new Street Fighter game hahah. but I also wish Wiz's didn't always use a staff/rod. I would prefer to see animations involving a tome -book - or charm as well.

There arnt a lot of skills in the skill tree for anybody right now, but I'm going to go ahead an imagine things will really fluff up when 3rd classes r introduced down the road. It is perhaps the fact that we r used to playing older & more established games that its a daunting task to get used to a newer baby game :P

I'm enjoying the Wiz very much, howerver, despite all these flaws atm. Teleport is super great for PvP and useful in PvM and I actally really like the animation for my explodey fisted fireballs of doom stun skill :)

Very accurate report on the Wiz class, OP !

XOXO,
Peanut
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#24 Nombus

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

What is the problem? They have on par single target DPS with Sorcerers and specialize at AoE damage (which makes their overall DPS much higher). I rather wish I had gone the Wizard path, but I'm not willing to go through the early game again to do it. Wizard has always been more a straight-forward DPS oriented class than Sage/Sorcerer.

They are also excellent companions to Sorcerers as Frost Nova actually gives Sorcs some decent AoE DPS (LoV). Frankly, I'm surprised they gave Frost Nova to Wizards instead of Sorcerers.
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#25 Bestie

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Posted 17 May 2013 - 11:24 AM

That isn't his whole concern :)

Edited by Bestie, 17 May 2013 - 11:25 AM.

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