
Fire Arms vs Wind Arms For Wizards
#26
Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:26 PM
#27
Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:28 PM
#28
Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:44 PM
Did you also include the loss of Seal Explosion? (Can be used twice in a 4 minute fight)
Or did I just miss reading it?
I did not include Seal Explosion in the calculations because you do not lose it, you trade a 20% MATK boost for a 15% haste boost. Also this was meant to be a barebones comparison that did not take cooldowns into effect.
I have a feeling that posting the gear stats you used in the calcs might make it easier for people to follow along.
I've already built my Wizard with max Fire Arms for the DoT, but this is making me wonder if I should reset him at 50, or perhaps earlier, to get Wind Arms. Even without the calcs provided above, I think I can see how increasing your Haste that much to fit in extra Fire Bolts more than makes up for the loss of the Fire Arms DoT. Making up for the MATK bonus is a little harder for me to see, though I admit that I don't know a whole lot about all that goes into MATK during different points of the game.
The stats were provided in the calculations at the top. the first set of calculations were assumed that you had 2000 base MATK and 25% crit rate. The second set of calculations assumed a base MATK of 3000 and a crit rate of 35%. The actual stats on your gear that you need to get these values are beyond the scope of the calculations as all we need to calculate damage are the attack and crit values.
I also remade my lvl 34 wizard after making these calculations, although I took it a step further and dropped Fire Bolt and Fireball for Cold Bolt and Lightning Bolt which results in an even higher damage boost than any of the previous calculations.
#29
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:10 PM
Now that's a little off-handed, if you ask me...I did not include Seal Explosion in the calculations because you do not lose it, you trade a 20% MATK boost for a 15% haste boost. Also this was meant to be a barebones comparison that did not take cooldowns into effect.
The stats were provided in the calculations at the top. the first set of calculations were assumed that you had 2000 base MATK and 25% crit rate. The second set of calculations assumed a base MATK of 3000 and a crit rate of 35%. The actual stats on your gear that you need to get these values are beyond the scope of the calculations as all we need to calculate damage are the attack and crit values.
I also remade my lvl 34 wizard after making these calculations, although I took it a step further and dropped Fire Bolt and Fireball for Cold Bolt and Lightning Bolt which results in an even higher damage boost than any of the previous calculations.
...Although I can see it exploiting Wind Seal's full benefits.
#30
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:19 PM
#31
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:23 PM
Only the cast bar is affected by the haste rate, however, Wind Emblem does provide an extra buff for Lightning Spells which toggles every so often, and would essentially replace Fire Ball.Yeah I'm not sure how cold bolt and lightning bolt would play out with Firestarter ticking away as well. Given it would be extremely mobile, would the damage really be comparable to fire bolt spam? Also does haste increase animation speed any, or just the cast bar? That could be the deciding factor between cold/lightning bolt + fire bolt/fireball builds.
Firestarter would be as hindered by this as it would if the Wind Emblem build followed Fire Bolt and Fire Ball, thus, there's no difference in that regard.
The only factor that would matter would by Pyromaniac, since it only applies for Fire Spells.
Edited by SorcerousPhantom, 04 June 2013 - 03:24 PM.
#32
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:25 PM
I honestly was not expecting much from the tests myself but I was surprised by the results. I have updated the original post with the results of the Cold Bolt calculations.
Edited by Xafir, 04 June 2013 - 03:27 PM.
#33
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:27 PM
If you don't mind me asking; exactly what methods are you using to perform and record these tests?Haste speeds up the casting bar the animation speed does not really matter for a skill that has sub 1 second cast time as no matter what ability you use there is a 1 second global cooldown time. That being said I did test the animation times and Fire Bolt has a slower animation than Cold Bolt and Lightning Bolt has the fastest animation of the 3 (at least according to the stop watch on my phone).
I honestly was not expecting much from the tests myself but I was surprised by the results. I have updated the original post with the results of the Cold Bolt calculations.
#34
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:32 PM
Edited by Xafir, 04 June 2013 - 03:33 PM.
#35
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:46 PM
#36
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:48 PM
The haste rate you'd get applied onto Cold Bolt is not unlike what Sorcerers get; use that as your reassurance.My only concern is that animation or "global" isn't taken into account for the cold bolt test. With that much haste you can really only get 2 cold bolts off in the 1 second(maybe barely over a second) because of the animation after the bar finishes, and before you can begin recasting.
#37
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:48 PM
For instance when I did the manual timing test for Lightning Bolt I could get 2 Lightning Bolts off in 1 second with 0% haste and no Wind Arms, however 2 Cold Bolts took 2 Seconds (1 second GCD + .5 seconds per Cold Bolt * 2) and likewise it took 3 seconds to cast 2 Fire Bolts back to back.
Edited by Xafir, 04 June 2013 - 03:53 PM.
#38
Posted 04 June 2013 - 03:57 PM
#39
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:02 PM
http://ro2base.com/b...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0
not 100% sure I should with those last 3 points. Ice Wall? =/
#40
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:08 PM
#41
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:12 PM
#42
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:15 PM
#43
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:18 PM
Although on a side note I bet the lightning/cold bolt build would wreck in coloseum. I already get half my kills chasing people with lightning bolt spam

#44
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:21 PM
The reason of why in the hypothetical Cold Bolt/Lightning Bolt Wizard scenario I would not train Frost Diver is because it's as good as useless on bosses. Wind Emblem's Lightning buff does, however, work on bosses.Also does the double damage lightning proc work on bosses? Cause the wording makes it seem you only get double damage if the target is frozen, and since bosses can't be frozen ;_;
Although on a side note I bet the lightning/cold bolt build would wreck in coloseum. I already get half my kills chasing people with lightning bolt spam
#45
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:22 PM
#46
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:27 PM
I'm not sure if that's a perfect comparison between Wizards and Sorcs. Sorcs have damage combos that span across 1st and 2nd classes (the aforementioned Jupitel Thunder and Varetyr Spear benefit from Cold Bolt+JT Mastery and Frost Driver, respectively), whereas the only equivalent with Wizards is Pyromaniac giving you a bit more Haste when you use Fire Bolt/Ball. Basically they aren't as dependent on cross-class combos as Sorcs, so they seem more capable of getting away with different builds in the Magician stage.I won't lie I'm definitely interested in the Wind Arms+Fire Bolt build, but I am still skeptical on the Cold/Lightning Bolt build. Not sure what this does for a wizard when compared to a sorc with the same thing besides int buff for slightly more magic power and Firestarter DOT. It just seems somewhat underwhelming in my head without Jupital and Vaetyr.
Edited by Funen1, 04 June 2013 - 04:32 PM.
#47
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:35 PM
I definitely like the mobility over Fire Bolt though, anytime I have to move I feel really gimped as fire, although I bet you eat through SP like a fat kid eats cake with 5/5 Cold and Lightning Bolt lol.
#48
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:42 PM
Before making any last decisions, I personally would like to see further confirmation about the lines of difference between Cold Bolt versus Fire Bolt, both under the event that Wind Emblem is present.Yeah I know Firestarter would still work just fine, and the AOE would still be very strong from Inferno+Meteor Storm. I guess it seems like a, "Too good to be true," scenario lol. I don't have any raid gear yet, and still working toward colosseum gear so my magic power is only at roughly 1640~ without Fire Emblem. I am definitely intrigued by the build though, just wrestling myself over whether it might be worth the $6, or if it would end up costing me $12 ya know?
I definitely like the mobility over Fire Bolt though, anytime I have to move I feel really gimped as fire, although I bet you eat through SP like a fat kid eats cake with 5/5 Cold and Lightning Bolt lol.
That said, I probably have enough time, as I'll have to gather the 556+ Zeny required for a Skill Reset scroll.
#49
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:44 PM
Before making any last decisions, I personally would like to see further confirmation about the lines of difference between Cold Bolt versus Fire Bolt, both under the event that Wind Emblem is present.
That said, I probably have enough time, as I'll have to gather the 556+ Zeny required for a Skill Reset scroll.
I think I forgot to mention but I added calculations for the damage of a Cold Bolt build to the bottom of the original post. They were made with the same 2 test cases as the original Fire Bolt tests I did so you should be able to directly compare the 2 results.
Edited by Xafir, 04 June 2013 - 04:45 PM.
#50
Posted 04 June 2013 - 04:49 PM

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