66 replies to this topic

[KTFlash]

Your skill that reduces target's MaxHP by 50% would effectively make their HP be reduced by 50% too, which is too powerful. We would have to figure a way to code that once the effect ends, HP is rescaled back up. That's a pretty powerful ability to have, even if it were only for a few seconds.

 

It doesn't reduce MAXHP by 50%, it reduces the incoming healing (mage, HPot, food, natural health regeneration) by 50%. So, If I apply a "reduced hp healing" by 50%, and if a cleric heals the target by, let's say, a common of 1000 hp, that would be 500hp cause the debuff reduces the incoming healing (through that would be impossible as you said )

 

Maybe if you add a 100% chance of dispelling a buff (like currently does) and applying a counterdebuff? Like, if I dispell an attack damage buff, it would apply an attack damage debuff - no idea if that could be made? Just throwing ideas.

 

Maybe a "damage" amplification could work. But that does kinda kill the concept of the magic resist debuff, cause, 2 long animations to weaken an enemy, I think 2 damage spells would benefitial in the short run (since that's how mage should play, kill them before they reach you).

 

 

 

 

 

Also if you need programers hire me ._. 

Edited by KTFlash, 16 July 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[Leonis]

Ah, I then I guess I misunderstood. Certainly would be a neat effect. But yeah, a lot of the new stats we've introduced aren't setup for buff use at the moment. I'll have to ask about what it will take and see if it can be possible. I like the idea!

 

You have great ideas. I hope to be able to implement them over time in the future. For now, new mechanics is tough to start doing as we're behind our timeline schedule and we really need to get this put on the live server. I don't plan to do more skill balances of this level, just minor tweaks and adjustments here and there as they're discovered to be needed. But new skills could be introduced along the way I think, without too much disruption.

 

 

[SuiMeister]

SuiMeister,
Some of the "problems" don't seem to be problems at all more than they are your weaknesses to the strength of your opponent.
The fact that a Raider is tearing through your shield quickly, when you let them get within melee range of you, I would say is fault of strategy. You should be keeping your distance on them because that is your advantage to them, since they are generally melee ranged.
Remember, the Mage as a class is squishy, the Mana Shield is just an extra buffer, so if you get in to the situation where you're now in a melee confrontation, expect to get hurt, unless you can quickly get control over the situation.

I will consider the suggestion of adding a silence effect to the Sorcery tree.

Voltage Jolt was mentioned earlier in my post.

Raiders don't have a 25m Stun, it is a sleep. Very different. Sleep ends the moment you take damage after the effect begins (DoTs excluded). Stun would leave you still inactive through damage until duration ends.

But all the feedback was great to read and gives me more to think about! Thank you very much!!

 

Alright, its a sleep and not a stun, my bad. However, you actually confirmed my issue here. First you say mages should not get in melee range of classes like raiders, because we are bound to get hurt, but then you do confirm that raiders have a 100% 25m sleep. How am I supposed to stay away from a Raider when his first attack is a 25m guaranteed sleep, allowing him to just walk up to me and then just destroy me? There is absolutely nothing I can do against it, as I already pointed out that my only ranged attack that can stop his sleep is voltage jolt with only 20% chance to actually stop his sleep. And on top of that, I believe the raider sleep animation is faster than voltage jolt, meaning I can only win if I raise my range passive (yeah I saw you coming there)  AND if I get the 20% stun chance. Even if you raise it to 40%, that means I only have 40% chance to have a fair duel against a Raider, because if it fails he will put me to sleep, get in melee range and destroy me.

 

The current way might be ok for wars and crystal defenders, where mages should position themselves properly, but 1on1 PvP Mages are doomed against all classes which have a reliable ranged sleep/stun, which is pretty much all of them (scout, raider and arti/bourg for sure, champ aswell I think?).

 

Idea 1: What about maybe adding a ranged sleep for mages? A mage will be able to put his opponent to sleep first, but does not gain a huge advantage by doing that as mages need to stay far away anyhow. A Raider, champ and so on get a huge advantage by having a guaranteed sleep at the start of a fight, as it allows them to get in melee range. A mage could use a reliable sleep to apply a movement speed debuff or perhaps do early damage, so that right after the opponent wakes up and put the mage to sleep (which they will), atleast we were able to somehow prepare for that (with the mspeed debuff or so). This way all classes with ranged sleeps or reliable stuns do not get a free ticket to walk right up to mages, as they would first have to endure a hit or a debuff, which will hopefully be enough to still give a Mage a chance.

 

Idea 2: Perhaps a 25m distance (to be increased with mage passive) mute could solve this problem, on condition that the mute can still cancel the opponent's skill when he already pressed the skill button before that (which people usually do as soon as the opponent says 'go'), but before his skill animation actually starts. Right now this wouldnt work, as skills start when pressed and not when they get in range, so that even if you mute the opponent he still gets to do that skill he already pressed while being far away, but I believe Pegasus may allow for this to work? It would also gives us back that mute I asked you about and give even more incentive to use that range passive The mute could have 80% success for example, that seems fair as every other class besides mage/cleric also do a lot of damage with normal attacks.

 

Glad to hear you will think about animation speed and the HP/damage trade-off, as they are crucial for all classes to enjoy Pegasus PvP.

Edited by SuiMeister, 17 July 2013 - 01:32 AM.

[SuiMeister]

You have great ideas. I hope to be able to implement them over time in the future. For now, new mechanics is tough to start doing as we're behind our timeline schedule and we really need to get this put on the live server. I don't plan to do more skill balances of this level, just minor tweaks and adjustments here and there as they're discovered to be needed. But new skills could be introduced along the way I think, without too much disruption.

 

Well, seeing as at 230 you cant get every skill, that means if a new skill is added we should atleast get a free skill reset to be able to get that skill then. Just wanted to point that out, as it would suck to see a new skill that I needed get added but that I would be forced to buy the IM skill reset to actually learn that skill.
 

[Leonis]

SuiMeister,
Your focusing on one skill, which is designed to help let the Raider catch their target.
I don't see how other classes would never think train certain advantages to help compliment their fighting style, while exploiting another's weakness.
Most of what I'm reading is a plead to help allow Mages overcome any class or maybe even situation.

But look! You already figured out one means to help the issue by extending your range and keeping your range as much as possible from them.
If only there was a skill that could lock them in place so you could keep yourself in the advantage.

I think, at the moment, Mages are fine. Most of what I'm reading is a desire to allow for them to have full control over any situation, which is against the point of this update. Everyone is expected to have a weakness that can be exploited in combat. But there are also ways to cover for one's weakness as well.

The ice tree has two spells that already reduce movement speed significantly. These are intended to allow for you to get extra spell casts off.
 

We already have skill resets planned to be provided when this update reaches. The only skills that will not be reset are unique skills, as they are not changing to the 5 level standard. The 5 level design was intended just for the class trees.

[zenheartbeats]

I think, at the moment, Mages are fine. Most of what I'm reading is a desire to allow for them to have full control over any situation, which is against the point of this update. Everyone is expected to have a weakness that can be exploited in combat. But there are also ways to cover for one's weakness as well.

 

QFT, I also believe that the Pegasus Ice Mage is indeed in a "fine" spot at the moment.

 

It will take some getting used to. :-(

[SuiMeister]

SuiMeister,
Your focusing on one skill, which is designed to help let the Raider catch their target.
I don't see how other classes would never think train certain advantages to help compliment their fighting style, while exploiting another's weakness.
Most of what I'm reading is a plead to help allow Mages overcome any class or maybe even situation.

But look! You already figured out one means to help the issue by extending your range and keeping your range as much as possible from them.
If only there was a skill that could lock them in place so you could keep yourself in the advantage.

I think, at the moment, Mages are fine. Most of what I'm reading is a desire to allow for them to have full control over any situation, which is against the point of this update. Everyone is expected to have a weakness that can be exploited in combat. But there are also ways to cover for one's weakness as well.

The ice tree has two spells that already reduce movement speed significantly. These are intended to allow for you to get extra spell casts off.
 

We already have skill resets planned to be provided when this update reaches. The only skills that will not be reset are unique skills, as they are not changing to the 5 level standard. The 5 level design was intended just for the class trees.

 

Ok ok, point taken. I am in no way pleading for a way to make Mages undefeatable, as I prefer a balanced game no matter what class I play. I am just worried because after PvPing on Pegasus this weekend I noticed how at the moment mages dont have the kit to counter early sleeps/stuns. I will look into ice mage some more, as I was only able to get fire mage skills and half of the ice skills so far.

 

I hope you still consider the addition of a mute skill, which has been a vital part of Mages since iRose as far as I can remember. A 5 level 80% mute for perhaps 3 seconds (just a suggestion) should not make a mage overpowered, as every other class does not rely on skills that much, but it does give Mage more utility. You might see Mages as a glass cannon, but many people use mages for their utility in the current server. Can you imagine Crystal Defenders where a cleric cant be muted by a mage? Those clerics are already unkillable in the current live server, even with tons of mutes.

 

Also off topic but still Pegasus related: I have a lvl 200 Mage on Pegasus since last week but did not receive my pegasus tester shirt on my account on live server. Did I miss that reward or something? Pegasus character is "Suii" and my live server main character is dSui.

 

/Sui

[Leonis]

Mute was added to the Elemental Spike with a 60% chance for 3 seconds, to give it more value to invest in to the Sorcery tree. The spell's cooldown was increased so that you cannot overlap infinitely (even if you're that fortunate) to 6 seconds. But even so,

 

There will be unique skills that will be PvP oriented to obtain and PvM skills as well.

These skills will be augmentations of some class skills, some will be truly unique.

The ones for PvP will only be able to be used against another player, while the PvM ones will only be able to be used against monsters and enemy NPCs.

 

Oh, none of the shirts have been distributed, been kind of busy trying to keep up with the feedback. I apologize. I'll try to set aside some time to distribute those tomorrow. A shirt will be distributed based on account.

[SuiMeister]

Mute was added to the Elemental Spike with a 60% chance for 3 seconds, to give it more value to invest in to the Sorcery tree. The spell's cooldown was increased so that you cannot overlap infinitely (even if you're that fortunate) to 6 seconds. But even so,

 

There will be unique skills that will be PvP oriented to obtain and PvM skills as well.

These skills will be augmentations of some class skills, some will be truly unique.

The ones for PvP will only be able to be used against another player, while the PvM ones will only be able to be used against monsters and enemy NPCs.

 

Oh, none of the shirts have been distributed, been kind of busy trying to keep up with the feedback. I apologize. I'll try to set aside some time to distribute those tomorrow. A shirt will be distributed based on account.

 

Sounds good Will these unique PvP/PvM skills be on Pegasus before Pegasus gets deployed on the live server, or are you talking about future updates? Also, if a future update (after Pegasus that is) introduces a new skill, will we be given a free skill reset after each of those updates? Would seem kinda necessary as skill points are already very limited with the new skill trees.

 

/Sui

[rodolfocm]

Make mute 80%! 

[Leonis]

Sounds good Will these unique PvP/PvM skills be on Pegasus before Pegasus gets deployed on the live server, or are you talking about future updates? Also, if a future update (after Pegasus that is) introduces a new skill, will we be given a free skill reset after each of those updates? Would seem kinda necessary as skill points are already very limited with the new skill trees.

 

/Sui

 

Working on it currently. Very much intent on getting these skills in to the system so they can be tested for final tweaking. There are likely going to be additional skills added along the future as time goes on, but these initial few are wanted to get a good kick off and something to hunt/aim for.

 

We'll see what will be done in regards to the situation of adding new skills in the future. But it gives us something to consider.

[KTFlash]

some animations feel really stiff, unnatural and "unforeseen". Sometimes they need a lot of time to startup, and end very quickly.

[Leonis]

KTFLash, yeah I know what you mean. But I need extra eyes and hands on not just finding them, but being able to suggest alternatives or if it merely needs a speed up / slow down, based on the stage of animation.

[Niluje]

v57:

 

- Hailstorm:
Not bugged situation: When a monster is in range of the skill, you jump in the air and a blue sign appears on the ground and meteorites fall all over this sign
Bugged situation: When no monster is in range of the skill, you jump in the air but the blue sign does not appear on the ground and meteorites do not fall (ie. nothing else visually happens to indicate you performed a self AOE)

- Frost Ring:
Not bugged situation: When a monster is in range of the skill, you jump in the air and a blue glow appear around the target to indicate that it has been hit
Bugged situation: When no monster is in range of the skill, you jump in the air but nothing else visually happens to indicate you performed a self AOE

- Wind Storm & Hurricane: the animation is that of a self AOE even though it is a target AOE

- Icy Hailstorm, Wind Storm, Hurricane, Meteorite Flow and Blaze are classified as "AOE (Target)" in the tooltip, but Fire Ring, Meteorite Strike and Thunder Storm are classified as "Targeted Skill", even though all these skills are essentially the same thing: target AOE's. Maybe try to standardize their classification
Hurricane & Thunder Storm are even in the same "branch"

- Fire Bolt & Fireball: the animation doesn't look "fire" at all, it's just like Ice Bolt & co

- Cold Snap: Is it me or the animation looks weird? lol

 

 

Totally unrelated: When I use Elemental Bolt from further than the skill range and then I use Elemental Spike before Elemental Bolt is actually cast, it casts Elemental Spike but then the character doesn't melee the target and just stands there like an idiot

There isn't any problem when doing the opposite (ie. using Elemental Spike out of range then Elemental Bolt before Spike is actually cast)

Edited by Niluje, 25 July 2013 - 02:15 PM.

[Leonis]

Niluje, thank you for all those notes! I'll have to go through and correct all the visuals.

 

As for the Elemental Bolt/Spike thing, that's very strange and I'll have to give it a try to see if it reproduces for me. The skills settings and animations are identical, so that is rather odd. Only difference is one has a status effect and the skill damage really.

[DestinyDeoxys]

Played with mage and used all kinds of way to build. Only thing I don't like is that the heals on supportive tab is too low, the only way to build a mage is only offensive, yes they are very offensive but very weak in terms of defense. Being weak to the point that an artisan or a scout can take you out within 5 seconds.

Mage used to get a lot of honor points from healing inflicted in game arena, but I don't think it is possible anymore. The heals on supportive tab are scaled really low, unless you have healing power passive and summoner's gift unique skill, but both skills are Cleric exclusive. This is the reason why I say supportive mage is dead, only way to build a mage is to go for offensive which surprisingly leads me to find out the highest damage output mage is actually a SEN mage. Getting crit is better than going for more INT or CHA.

I tried DEX mage too, but you must need to use the soul electric in order to work.

[Leonis]

Seeing as Mages are not designed to be supportive. Hearing this

the only way to build a mage is only offensive, yes they are very offensive but very weak in terms of defense.

shows me that the class is working more towards what was designed. Defensive wise, you have the Mana Shield you can rely on, which can grant you a damage buffer that can greatly extend the amount of damage you can withstand. But bare in mind, you are still low in defense and will take more damage in the end from physical combat, so it is best to avoid it when possible.

Regarding the range of other classes, I'm going to be reviewing it and making some changes there because it was one of the final remarks that was lingering from some earlier play testing notes. There are many other factors that I will be looking in to, as some final minor tweaking regarding class balances, but nothing too major as most balance changes for the past couple weeks have been minor tweaks and nudges.

And yes, since critical hits apply to skills, well done for finding that one out!