51 replies to this topic

[Shouichirou]

Always on, as long as [Defender] (a toggle buff) is activated. But with that said, the [AoD set bonus] actually allows a warrior (or any capped class for that matter) to pass the "cap". Assuming the [AoD set bonus] is applied, it would not be odd to see them at 75% parry (without [Parrying] up).

[Varunax]

as a tank knight? or do you mean warrior

As a Warrior.

[Jonss]

damn lmao

[sephiroso]

damn lmao

its not really that surprising, just look how good Colo gear is. Now realize that CoA Hard gear is better than colo. Now again realize that AoD N is better than CoA H. so you can see just how much better the AoD Hard gear is.

[Jonss]

its not really that surprising, just look how good Colo gear is. Now realize that CoA Hard gear is better than colo. Now again realize that AoD N is better than CoA H. so you can see just how much better the AoD Hard gear is.

ah i see only got pvp weapon atm and havent really looked at rest but i ntoiced it improving my stats a lot

[SonicTMP]

Realize that bosses are going to get harder in new raids too. Hence the need for better gear.

[sephiroso]

Realize that bosses are going to get harder in new raids too. Hence the need for better gear.

don't actually need better gear. case in point baphomet hard mode being downed, what was it, 3rd day after launch?

just need the skills to pay the bills.

[SonicTMP]

Bapho H was a matter of having HP to survive the unavoidable AoE attacks. VIP covered that, allowing you to skip the gear check.
Also have you raided in other games much? T1 raids are usually the easiest. It geta harder with the new tiers more often than not.

Granted you've aruged abuot how easy the raids are already...

[AlexaWhite]

I have modified table to see ATK values. On top - warrior with berserk, then knight with concentration, then beastmaster and on bottom monks even in fury. Without tank-buffs Warrior, Monk and Beastmaster look so fragle.
But that raw and not accurate ATK values. To compare need know DamagePerMinute with typical skill chain scenarios and dellays with cooldowns.

[Timmmt]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aph52l7SQHJBdHpzWnU4VWJjVUN0cVk3dDVpbC1SMHc#gid=0

I hope you don't mind, I was curious to see how the other tanks looked compared to the swordsmen. Your sheet wasn't editable so I made a new one.

I added a few variables (titles, some buffs, HP), but otherwise all the parameters are the same as in Timmmt's spreadsheet(+10 AoDH gear, cards, etc.). I think all my formulas are correct, but if you find an error the spreadsheet is editable. The only one I'm not sure on is HP, it's just an estimation based on vit and hp mods. I know you gain HP per level, but I don't know how much or if all classes gain the same amount.

Basically what I found is that each of the tanks excels in a different stat. Warriors have the highest parry rate, knights have the most attack (that was unexpected), monks have the strongest defense (just barely), and beastmasters have the highest hp. Warriors have the most natural dodge, but a monk using Flee 5 will have the most by a fairly big amount.

If you're going to play with your own numbers, don't touch the highlighted bits.

Nice job, I completely forgot about titles.

I also started doing my own calculations for the other tanks to see how they stacked up with swordsmen and my results are pretty similar to yours. I'll have to check out your spreadsheet more thoroughly because I probably screwed up somewhere since I'm not too familiar with how monks and beatmasters work.

[sephiroso]

Bapho H was a matter of having HP to survive the unavoidable AoE attacks. VIP covered that, allowing you to skip the gear check.
Also have you raided in other games much? T1 raids are usually the easiest. It geta harder with the new tiers more often than not.

Granted you've aruged abuot how easy the raids are already...

bringing up other games raids has no bearing in this game. this games raids are a complete joke. i honestly dont even want to call them raids. they're more like glorified dungeons than a raid. WoW had some good raids. AQ40, Naxx(talking vanilla naxx) BWL. Some good times. They weren't JUST gear checks, had actual strategy to them instead of just "kill mob a" and the usual stay out of fire.

Trust me, CoA and AoD will be cleared by just as many people just as easily as Bapho H was cleared. You're right in that T1 raids are usually the easiest, but this type of game, dont expect it to actually get any harder. Yes, the mobs will hit harder and you won't be seeing people in RHD gear beating AoD H, but its not like you're gonna need CoA H geared out people to beat it either.

Yes on some level you do need some measure of gear, but once you meet the hp thresholds, you're set from there. And meeting an hp threshold is not a measure of "difficulty" or at least it shouldn't be.

[SonicTMP]

Gear check is more than just HP threshholds. Tanks need enough defences to get thru boss tanking, dps need to beat engrage timers, healers need more power to keep up with high stress damage. Gear helps this. That's the entire point of it. VIP let them cheat early. Colo is pretty much the same. Lets not forget spinels let you res in combat, I''d be amazed if the first Bapho H kill used 0 spinels

Though I do agree thatt he raids in here aren't exteremlly hard. I don't expect CoA to be much harder but you'll probably start hearing complaints once AoD hits since there won't be all the buffers.

Edited by SonicTMP, 06 June 2013 - 10:24 PM.

[Chocs]

Players get free 3k HP buffs in SEA for CoA raids (if I recall a certain announcement correctly). I haven't extensively raided there in the past, but if that's not an indication for difficulty then I don't know what is--

[SolidJelly]

Players get free 3k HP buffs in SEA for CoA raids (if I recall a certain announcement correctly). I haven't extensively raided there in the past, but if that's not an indication for difficulty then I don't know what is--

I don't know if SEA's raids have been intentionally made harder in order to squeeze more money out of players to upgrade their gears. There were talks about it but ultimately it needed to be compared with kRO2 to be accurate. Maybe it's just a rumor...hopefully that level of difficulty doesn't get implemented here, because certain classes become almost mandatory in raids (eg. Knight's shield fortress, Priest's sanctuary, Sorc's Deluge+LoR)

[LuBuFengXian]

Making me wonder if I should reinvest back into Aura Blade as it seems to scale better late game.

Waste of points, unless you plan to DPS. I am having a hard time getting bash or anything in as it is...and battle tactics costs only 3 points to max.

ALTHOUGH I TRIED THAT ONCE WHEN I WAS A TRANSFORMING CRITICAL DPS/TANK BUT THEN I LEARNED THAT ENDURE SAVES MY SORRY ASS FROM GETTING RAPED BY DAS DRILLER SO I HAVE TO STOP DOING IT

[Chocs]

I don't know if SEA's raids have been intentionally made harder in order to squeeze more money out of players to upgrade their gears. There were talks about it but ultimately it needed to be compared with kRO2 to be accurate. Maybe it's just a rumor...hopefully that level of difficulty doesn't get implemented here, because certain classes become almost mandatory in raids (eg. Knight's shield fortress, Priest's sanctuary, Sorc's Deluge+LoR)

Well it's hard to believe they would give 3K HP for free if the difficulty was intended for players to spend more money on. Sounds more like a band-aid fix to me.

I've been to the kRO2 CoA for only the first and fourth boss, and both strats involved resetting the adds by bugging -- people could still die (and they did) because of one careless move. It seems when they fixed those bugs in SEA suddenly people have trouble dealing with them. Again, my experience isn't very extensive..

I do hope that even casual players can complete the dungeon without spending ridiculous amounts of money.

Edited by Chocs, 07 June 2013 - 04:08 AM.

[Jargous]

Considering that they won't be anywhere near fixing it, using bugs to do it is about the only way. But all you really need is to meet the HP threshold and everything becomes easy from there. I wouldn't consider gears as much because when you hit the HP threshold, that is because you usually have the gears. Simply not having the VIP means that your gears are even better.

[Timmmt]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aph52l7SQHJBdHpzWnU4VWJjVUN0cVk3dDVpbC1SMHc#gid=0

I added a few variables (titles, some buffs, HP), but otherwise all the parameters are the same as in Timmmt's spreadsheet(+10 AoDH gear, cards, etc.). I think all my formulas are correct, but if you find an error the spreadsheet is editable. The only one I'm not sure on is HP, it's just an estimation based on vit and hp mods. I know you gain HP per level, but I don't know how much or if all classes gain the same amount.

Basically what I found is that each of the tanks excels in a different stat. Warriors have the highest parry rate, knights have the most attack (that was unexpected), monks have the strongest defense (just barely), and beastmasters have the highest hp. Warriors have the most natural dodge, but a monk using Flee 5 will have the most by a fairly big amount.

If you're going to play with your own numbers, don't touch the highlighted bits.

I think the monks defense is calculated incorrectly. It should be:

705*3.5 = 2467.5
(2467.5/4369)*100 = 56.48

[malasuerte]

I think the monks defense is calculated incorrectly. It should be:

705*3.5 = 2467.5
(2467.5/4369)*100 = 56.48

Well, I'm hesitant to combine the modifiers (which would be 2.5, not 3.5) since they're from two different skills.

Treating them separately you get

705*(1.5)*(2) = 2115
(2115/4369)*100 = 48.41%

Combining the modifiers would be

705*2.5 = 1762.5
(1762.5/4369)*100 = 40.34%

I think the Steel Body modifier be should be 3, not 2.

In which case
705*(1.5)*(3) = 3172.5
(3172.5/4369)*100 = 72.6%

My monk is only in his 30's right now so I can't really say if that seems feasible or not.

This post was all sorts of wrong.

Edited by malasuerte, 07 June 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[SonicTMP]

Good job with the BM/monk stats.

Monks get some ridiclious defence. To think cloth beats out plate by 25% or so.

The bear has dodge/parry along lines of the knight which is good. But ouch on it's defence. Maybe putting the vit into agi might be a better idea for the bonus stats. Still bears need a bit of a buff.

[Timmmt]

Well, I'm hesitant to combine the modifiers (which would be 2.5, not 3.5) since they're from two different skills.

Treating them separately you get

705*(1.5)*(2) = 2115
(2115/4369)*100 = 48.41%

Combining the modifiers would be

705*2.5 = 1762.5
(1762.5/4369)*100 = 40.34%

I think the Steel Body modifier be should be 3, not 2.

In which case
705*(1.5)*(3) = 3172.5
(3172.5/4369)*100 = 72.6%

My monk is only in his 30's right now so I can't really say if that seems feasible or not.

That's wrong too.

Yes, you should add them together because all buffs are additive, not multiplicative. For example, if you have 5000 base hp and receive blessing, vip, and Aura Armor, you get 5000*(1 + 0.2 + 0.15 + 0.10) = 5000(1.45) = 7250, not 5000*1.15*1.2*1.10=7590.

For monk defense, it is:
705(1+0.5+2.0) = 705(3.5) = 2467.5

A simpler way: 705 + 250% = 2467.5

Edited by Timmmt, 07 June 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[malasuerte]

That's wrong too.

Yes, you should add them together because all buffs are additive, not multiplicative. For example, if you have 5000 base hp and receive blessing, vip, and Aura Armor, you get 5000*(1 + 0.2 + 0.15 + 0.10) = 5000(1.45) = 7250, not 5000*1.15*1.2*1.10=7590.

For monks, it is:
705(1+0.5+2.0) = 705(3.5) = 2467.5

A simpler way: 705 + 250% = 2467.5

Ah okay, I've changed the formula then.

[Timmmt]

I updated the first post with a new comparison chart that includes Monks and Beastmasters. Here's how they stack up:

Attack: Knight > Warrior > Beastmaster > Monk
Defense Rating: Monk > Knight > Warrior > Beastmaster
Dodge Rating: Warrior > Beastmaster > Knight > Monk
Parry Rating: Warrior > Monk > Knight > Beastmaster

Note that I used my own stat builds and picked card sets that I felt benefited each class the best. Of course, other people will use different builds, so the above might not be true in all scenarios.

[Chocs]

So to get Parry capped you still have to pump a lot of STR? If so, would that mean INT Warriors are unlikely to hit that cap even with end game gears?

[Timmmt]

So to get Parry capped you still have to pump a lot of STR? If so, would that mean INT Warriors are unlikely to hit that cap even with end game gears?

I didn't include runes in the chart. Just from AOD H gear, you should have close to max Parry depending on your cards. So, you can rune for INT, AGI, or VIT in the end without sacrificing Parry Rate. You could also rune for STR and switch to hit/vigor or INT accessories. There are lots of ways to customize your character in this game.