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Start to fix the -_- SORC CLASS


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#176 Polemos

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

The difference between level 1 Cold bolt and level 5 Cold bolt is 12% (26% vs 38%).  So what you are saying is, 26% is not real DPS but 38% is real DPS?  Ok, let me go think about that for a while.  As it has already been pointed out, I am brainless so I may require the aid of an external computational device to assist me.

 

Or wait, do you actually mean to say Sorcerer actually do no real DPS outside of their chance procs?  And everyone here wants to nerf the Sorcerer's ability to "maybe" burst?  Ok, I see now.


Edited by Polemos, 07 July 2013 - 04:16 PM.

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#177 Meconopsis

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:00 PM

If you nerf the Sorcerer class, people will just hop the bandwagon onto the next powerful class. It's how it goes. Instead, buff weaker classes to make them more appealing/competitive.

Yes please, just buff the other classes so that it doesn't take excess skill to make up for a class's lack of competitiveness.

Skill plays a big part, sure. So does luck factor, but nerfing Sorc is not the answer.

We should be coming with suggestions to buff other classes, and put this topic to rest.

Because at this rate, flaming and troll baits are drawing very near.

Edited by Meconopsis, 07 July 2013 - 04:01 PM.

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#178 Vaelastrasz

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:04 PM

But as my overposter said, play a sorc in colo, you will see that this "OMFG I DID 10k CRIT ONE HIT" or "OMFG I TWO SHOTTED HIM" wont happen that often, in fact maybe once or twice in an entire colo game.

 

It shouldn't happen at all and that is the point. Sorc has WAY too much versatility to be the best in anything PERIOD. The only other class that can one shot anything IME is a Warrior and they need the poring buff and need to close the distance too as well as be skilled and stated a certain way.

 

A sorc has much versatility? The best in anything? Well since a sorc's dps is totally depending on RNG, its overall dmg is one of the worst. If you proc often, you kick a lot of butts, if you dont, well gl with cold bolt spam with insane damage, NOT!

I would sacrifice a lot of max dmg in a result to not be that depending on procs anymore.

 

And well, a good sorc, who knows to properly switch between earth and wind arms has an advantage in colo, but how many are there who do this, 10% tops :x

 

Oh and btw, if you want a sorc nerf so bad so they are equal to other range classes (?) or to be equal to any class, why not remove all the skills ingame and just let every class auto-attack, maybe there is balance -.-


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#179 6299130505154003263

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:26 PM

The difference between level 1 Cold bolt and level 5 Cold bolt is 12% (26% vs 38%).  So what you are saying is, 26% is not real DPS but 38% is real DPS?  Ok, let me go think about that for a while.  As it has already been pointed out, I am brainless so I may require the aid of an external computational device to assist me.

 

blabla ninja edit stuff

 

Now you are just playing dumb... at least I hope you are just playing.

Wizard require procs from firebolt for his skills, spamming coldbolt will not be the best option DPS wise, it can add a bit of utility but thats it, you wont be spaming this skill as it lowers significantly your DPS.

While sorcs will need to spam those coldbolts for WA procs, perma slow plus great bursts of JT`s in between.

about your edit: dude you are clearly playing dumb to troll/turn this into a flame war... Sorc like all classes have some kind of combo, most sorc players here saying you dont have anything to do while varetyr is on CD and anti frozen buff, vs melee characters, you will be spaming cold bolts for kiting and getting extra procs of WA for more 2x/4x outside of FD frozen state... you do that to either stale the other person while your CD`s are up again or even kill him/finish him off. If you even got to this points on a 1v1, the person is really close to death, or you missed all your skills, but complaining about missing skills isnt the point, as every other class/skills can miss too.

 

 

I honestly dont care if they are nerfed or not, there can be some actions to make sorc skills act different vs players and vs monsters... this can be done, as is done in a lot of games, pvp mechanics =/= pve mechanics. Look at RO1 for close reference, this is RO2 after all.

 

I just dont like sorc players coming here and saying the class is fine and it doenst have the upper hand over the others, along with rangers and priests, they are kings of colo. If they indeed need nerfing or other classes need buffing, its a different matter. Just dont say it is balanced, because its clearly not.


Edited by 6299130505154003263, 07 July 2013 - 04:34 PM.

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#180 narhak

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 05:04 PM

 

I just dont like sorc players coming here and saying the class is fine and it doenst have the upper hand over the others, along with rangers and priests, they are kings of colo. If they indeed need nerfing or other classes need buffing, its a different matter. Just dont say it is balanced, because its clearly not.

 

+1  Im a warrior and In the last round of colo, I only see rangers, sorcs, priest and maybe rogues all the time,  in all arenas I've done and I have done many (I have full coliseum set) , I only saw a monk in the last round only 1 one time, and a  gm says in facebook that colo is more easy for rangers classes than mele clases and they know that, and they are working in a balance fix of that, in a near future.

 

Read this:

 

http://blog.gravityus.com/?p=4263

 

  • PVP Class balance, in the long term there will be a huge revamp of class balance i’m sure, but in the short term trying to tweak down the dominance of fast ranged classes in PVP (colosseum specifically). The good news is WoE maps have quests and are open PVP between WoEs, you can earn blood points there as well.

That is officialy, no fake info.

 

In conclusion NO coliseum is not balanced, but I dont want a nerf, I want a buff for all mele clases, and I like that idea.


Edited by narhak, 07 July 2013 - 05:23 PM.

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#181 Qtpiegumdrops

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

+1  Im a warrior and In the last round of colo, I only see rangers, sorcs, priest and maybe rogues all the time,  in all arenas I've done and I have done many (I have full coliseum set) , I only saw a monk in the last round only 1 one time, and a  gm says in facebook that colo is more easy for rangers classes than mele clases and they know that, and they are working in a balance fix of that, in a near future.

 

So from this post, you have a warrior and make it to last round fairly consistently from the sound of it? Since you have full colo set. Doesn't that show a small amount of balance?

 

Ranged classes may have an easier time in pvp. (They are ranged so they usually get the opening attack, and can hit fleeing targets easier.) But doesn't the fact that melee classes have full colo set and can make it to the 4th and 5th rounds consistently show some balance?

 

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe the rangers, sorcs, and priests making it to the finals are the better players? Just earlier today in colo on my warrior I got knocked out in the 4th round, but I saw two ranked beastmasters moving on to the 5th.

 

I've also been on my monk and seen another monk in the finals on multiple occassions. It's not too rare to see a warrior or knight in there either. I will admit that Beastmasters are fairly rare for me to see in the finals.

 

I will say that ranged have an upperhand, that's undeniable. But when a melee is played properly, that upperhand is smaller than you guys make it out to be. Many melee prove this, and continue to prove this every time colo opens by making it to the 4th and 5th rounds or even winning colo.


Edited by Qtpiegumdrops, 07 July 2013 - 06:50 PM.

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#182 Vaelastrasz

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:28 AM

Range Classes have always an advantage, they attack from range after all.

 

But tbh, every class can do it to the last round, apparently it was a big discussion about knights or monks or bms which dont get till round 5, well strangely enough, i see at least 50% range and 50% melee in that round. So monks/knights/bm/warri is no rarity to see in the last rounds.


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#183 AlexaWhite

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:10 AM



Range Classes have always an advantage, they attack from range after all.

 

But tbh, every class can do it to the last round, apparently it was a big discussion about knights or monks or bms which dont get till round 5, well strangely enough, i see at least 50% range and 50% melee in that round. So monks/knights/bm/warri is no rarity to see in the last rounds.

They not usual tank-classes. They awesome skillful or diabolic lucky persons! They use tactic, they team-ups with other nonlucky who pres colo-button. They do it for one purpose - put one or two meele in last round for THE GREAT JUSTICE AND UNIVERSE BALANCE!

But many dies in dark corners of colo studded with arrows and burns.

UBnC.png


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#184 Exvee

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 02:49 AM

We need this skill back :P :P :P

 

Spoiler


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#185 VModSushi

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:38 AM

Hey guys and gals. Please keep on topic. This is about Sorcerers. If you want to chat about another class, please make a new thread in the class discussion.

 

Secondary note, this is being moved to class discussion.


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#186 4860130515113635440

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 10:56 AM

Please realize that if we change skills or stats on a class based on Colosseum, it might affect their entire gameplay (such as for PVE or for WOE). 

 

That's why class balancing is such a delicate topic. We don't want to change something, just to have it cause problems elsewhere. 

 

We are actively looking for solutions, and have been asking the community to give us suggestions. However, this is an ongoing process, and will take time to complete.  

 

Until then, please no flaming or trolling. Angry posts don't help us make the game better. :)

 

 

 

All that needs to be done is to make FD and WA procs force crit instead of giving them double damage with the chance to crit. That way they keep their damage and lose their luck, which is the only thing people are complaining about. No other class gets to just get double damage on tap for their strongest skill(well rogue kinda does but they can't spam it) the most a class can do is force a crit in most cases.


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#187 1815130507023800023

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 09:15 AM

They should give Varetyr Spear a 2.5 second animation like the other "finisher" skills-

 

Varetyr does that double damage only if you cast frost diver or proc wind arm.

Frost diver have a really high cast time (about 3 sec), and you need from 1 to 10 ice bolt to proc wind arms, that's 1~10 times (usually 3~5 times) stopped for 1sec.

 

Sorc is the class that spent most part of colo in casting time due to FD JT high cast time and cold bolt cast time to proc wind arms, but of couse you are not capable to notice that, you just notice that 6k dmg that we do.

 

Sorcs heals can't do -_- in colo, only make you survive the last few seconds of a round, the only thing i won from heals, is more people targeting me and death.

 

Sorcs have no escape skill, once u r targeted either you kill who target you or compensate with another people/mob kill.

 

Sorcs get a lot of kills in colo, but they die even more than they kill due to high focus, high cast time, and no escape skill, useless heal.

 

 


Edited by 1815130507023800023, 11 July 2013 - 09:33 AM.

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#188 AhinaReyoh

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Posted 11 July 2013 - 05:05 PM

I'm not really sure why you quoted my post to type your rant, but you've got some rather incorrect statements there. (Frost Driver is 1.5sec cast time for example.)


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#189 1815130507023800023

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 02:22 AM

I'm not really sure why you quoted my post to type your rant, but you've got some rather incorrect statements there. (Frost Driver is 1.5sec cast time for example.)


Yeah, sorry about that, I wanted to aswer ur post and I ended doing a general post about sorcs in colo.
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#190 U2v85

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 05:09 PM

should definitely lower the sorc damage in arena gets much any other class equals the damage, suddenly put between 6000-6500 with spear does that not seem a lot? the ranger nor buffo of poring reach out so I think it is fair to lower the sorc damage as they can heal up damaging both their skills not assume that each class should have a weakness because apparently the sorc surpasses all weakness and thus cured that compensates for its defense


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#191 3305130708053819460

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 05:35 AM

I could be wrong but hasn't the Sorc been nerfed on IRO and SEARO already? From what I can remember, kRO sorcs do a lot more dmg and have lower cds on some spells. Please, don't cripple this class even more! 50 min on resurrect (compared to 5 mins on kRO) is not important in the colo but in other areas, it is really harsh. 


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#192 nogebator

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:05 PM

sorc not op. its wizard gimped. need raise wizard dmg on 30-40% more then sorc and all be fine. for example. firebolt 49 to 100% dmg. fireball 56 to 110%. mastery 15to 25%. firearms 10 to 20% matk. blast arms 20 to 30% fire explosion 110 to 150 and no need prequests. that will be good for dps class without heal(50% per 2 min its not heal).


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#193 nogebator

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:11 PM

or fix sorc skill tree. if u want dps u cant get heal skills. and if u want heal u cant get spear.  now u can get all skills without lose something critical.


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#194 Chocs

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:15 PM

I could be wrong but hasn't the Sorc been nerfed on IRO and SEARO already? From what I can remember, kRO sorcs do a lot more dmg and have lower cds on some spells. Please, don't cripple this class even more! 50 min on resurrect (compared to 5 mins on kRO) is not important in the colo but in other areas, it is really harsh. 

They nerfed their healing potential by half and made it a requirement to switch to Earth Seal for decent support (which is actually a reasonable change). Otherwise all offensive skills were left intact.

 

The Ressurrection CD was not a Sorcerer nerf, but more of an entire player base nerf.

 

Varetyr Spear is the main problem here. It literally has no drawbacks that any of the other burst skills have aside from the 30 second CD. In my opinion a simple 1~2s casting animation (similar to what Inverse of Ruins and Kleindiana has), forcing the Sorcerer to stand still and time their shots better should alleviate most of the PvP hate.

 

Edit: One Varetyr drawback I missed is how they fizzle out mid-air when the Sorcerer gets stunned or knocked down, just like other similar projectiles. That's not much of a balancing issue as much as it is simply bad programming---


Edited by Chocs, 19 August 2013 - 11:30 PM.

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#195 3596130702174734600

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 12:27 AM

Do people not read? Sorcs are the worst in the colo for healing themselves. Mobility is super important in colo, and if you stand still for anything, ALL players will target you if others are already attacking you. Classes that can self heal can do so while moving, so they slap on a wind bottle and jet across the screen and bam they are fine. If sorcs want to heal all their HP while moving, they to use a Spinel Potion, cause otherwise, everyone will see their LOR and Deluge and just target and kill them. Their healing is only useful in the last 15 seconds of a colosseum when they have already earned kills and are waiting for the round to end. 

To point out, wizards have way better mobility than sorcs. They can use teleport which will put them out of another character's target range and even get a speed buff from the use of it. If they are winning and it is the last 15 seconds, they can place themselves in a block of ice and extend their life. Wizards just don't have the same amount of burst damage of sorcs

Back to the burst damage, everything a sorc does is highly luck based. If they miss Frost diver after using memorize, they just lost out on a combo and now must do something else AND hope that it works. All of their 5k-7k damage that everyone complains about is either obvious, you were frozen, or they had to build up with luck to get it. If you are frozen, majority of classes have a way to defend themselves from the next attacks coming. On top of that, if you have colo gear then they won't be dealing 6k damage, not even to other lightweights like themselves. 

 

To be honest, the only true class that needs a nerf if anyone will get it will be the priest. They can run around with 11k health and easily win colo. They have a defensive skill to stop players from killing them quickly, healing effect so if they know someone will stun them, they will just recover the health while stunned, and lets not forget about their free full health skill. If they have pvp gear, just forget about killing them, it is a waste of your time, and the person behind their screen is laughing at how much you are trying to kill them when you can't. Rangers are probably the best "fair" class in colosseum, since they don't have to rely on luck, they just pound the targets to death with attacks and status hits. even though they don't have a typical defensive skill, having a free speed boost is better in every way than it. From chasing targets for the kill, or escaping other range and melee characters from killing you, I would imagine anyone would choose to have a free speed boost over a defense boost (look at wind bottle consumption).


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#196 rzevidz007

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:54 AM

^ But explain a sudden 7k damage that wins a colo.

 

What I want to say is Sorcerers and Wizards have an equal chance to win a colo if you know what you're doing. As a Sorcerer myself, I am confident to kill everyone that has HP lower than 30% and has two Jupitel Thunder Mastery points if there's no enemy attacking me in round 5. When using Wizard, multiple DoTs combined can't beat a smart Sorcerer with high intelligence. They can just measure and predict the damage before going into casting a JT. Or even FD+JT combo.

...Seriously, Sorcs = Wizards.


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#197 jesric

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:21 AM

from what ive read so far its the crit that you guys are complaining about. Ro2 is one of the ony mmos that i know of that has magic that crits, so my 2 cents to this is why not add a stat that reduces damage taken from critical hits, or you can even apply it as colo specific buff that reduces damage taken from crits by x%


Edited by jesric, 18 September 2013 - 04:40 AM.

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#198 Tlaltecuhtli

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:54 PM

fail thread full of rant because people aint skilled enough

its not only sorcs that can burst huge, take warrior for an instance, and now noels.
and overall bursts is lesser evil compared to fast attacks and specially dots.

people complaing about certain classes when they themselves doesnt know how to play their class.

fail thread full of rant because people aint skilled enough


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