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How does steal actually work


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#26 vnivni

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:29 AM

It's random.

 

 

 

 

So take your drop ratio (x:10,000) and calculated the Adjusted Drop Ratio.

 

Then a random number between 0 and 10,000 is rolled by the server and if

RandomValue <= AdjustedDropRatio

 

You receive the item.

 

For example, lets say you wanted to steal a Skull, with level 10 Steal and 100 DEX.  The monster has 10 DEX.  The skull drop chance is 10% (10% is a ratio of 1000:10,000)

 

AdjustedDropRatio = 1000 * (100 + 3*10 - 10 + 10)/ 100 = 1000 * (130)/100 = 1300

 

So your adjusted drop ratio is 1,300:10,000, meaning you have a 13% chance to Steal the skull.

 

A random number is taken by the server.  If the random number is less than or equal to 1,300, you will receive the skull.

 

There is also a check to see if Steal is successful or not.  Level 10 Steal has a 64% chance to steal, so there are two checks before an item is stolen.

 

If your steal attempt is unsuccessful, you will attempt to steal the next item.

 

Many monsters have extremely high drop items in their first slots (Common loots, typically 50%+ drop rate), making it fairly difficult to get rare items from a steal, since they are almost exclusively placed at the end of the list.

 

So lets say a monster drops these 7 items:

Skull (70%), Brigan (70%), Oridecon (30%), Elunium (30%), Chainmail (25%), Silk Robe (25%), Elemental Sword (0.02%).

 

If you wanted to Steal the Elemental Sword (Which would be extremely unlikely), you would have to do this:

Fail to Steal Skull, Brigan, Oridecon, Elunium, Chain Mail, AND Silk Robe, then successfully roll an extremely small number on the 7th roll.

 

If you considered the same stats from the first equation, Skull and Brigan would have a 91% steal chance, and your Elemental Sword would have a 0.02% steal chance, assuming you fail a 91% chance twice, then you failed two 39% chances, and then you failed two 32.5% chances.

 

So getting that Elemental Sword would be nothing short of a miracle.

 

tl;dr a roll is just another way to say random number.

 

How you know the DropRatio= % x 10,000?

 

Where did you find out about the role ( is it correct if I assume this= the "steal check"?)= random number?

 

So, the server'll calculate the "AdjustedDropRatio" for every item first, then make a role, then checks against the steal 64% chance to see if it succeeds, if not then check again the 64% steal chance for the following items, till the 7th monster drop item slot, if it succeeds then it will drop?
 

 

Also, basically, so the real steal chance for say the above skull you said= 0.91x0.64= 58.24% chance to succeed right?

 

 

 

If you wanted to Steal the Elemental Sword (Which would be extremely unlikely), you would have to do this:

Fail to Steal Skull, Brigan, Oridecon, Elunium, Chain Mail, AND Silk Robe, then successfully roll an extremely small number on the 7th roll.

 

Wait, so throughout a steal attempt, there's only 1 number the server randomly selected to compare with the adjusted rates right?

 

 

Is db.irowiki.org's monsters' drop slots' order accurate and read left to right and in a downwards fashion?


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#27 DrAzzy

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:35 AM

Wait, so throughout a steal attempt, there's only 1 number the server randomly selected to compare with the adjusted rates right?

A roll is made once for each item on the drop chart (except the last slot), until either one succeeds, or they all fail. 

 

To clarify a bit - when we use the term "roll" we mean that a random number is generated (as if we were "rolling a die") 


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#28 Zoltor

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:55 AM

I thought server-wide drop increases did work with steal? Just not VIP/Gum....

 

Oh - and before you try it, you can't make steal give you what you want by going to 100 item inventory limit with no space for the junk items - if it succeeds but you can't hold the item, you get the usual "you cannot carry more items" message, and the item vanishes into the void, and the monster is marked as stolen from. 

 

Nope, sorry it most definitely doesn't. Believe me, if it did, I would be loaded with God item/MvP cards from all the zenny I would've made due to server wide item drop increase events/compensation they use to have very often.


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#29 Jaffer

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:57 AM

How you know the DropRatio= % x 10,000?

 

The lowest drop chance is 1, the highest is 10,000.

 

The DropRatio is actually (%Drop)/100%, which will give you a decimal value between 0 and 1.  Since there is 10,000 possible rolls, writing the ratio as x:10,000 would be the most reasonable way.

 

You do not nor will you ever know what the current value of the randomized number is.  It's pretty likely a global seed is used for the entire zone server, so unlike games such as Pokemon where you can play the randomizer, that would be pretty much impossible in RO, so you're leaving it all up to chance.

 

And as Azzy said, a "roll" is just a term coined in tabletop RPGs, where you would roll a dice for random numbers.


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#30 Viri

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:59 AM

It's only if they change the drop table azzy. Not just any modifiers.


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#31 vnivni

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 09:05 AM

Jaffer I had like 5 questions


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#32 GuardianTK

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 09:05 AM

There's also a few monsters who are the exception to the rule in terms of being able to Steal cards from them, because somehow their card wasn't placed in the last drop slot. I've completely forgotten which ones though, because they weren't any notable cards worth remembering about.  xD  Someone's mentioned it a few times before though.


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#33 Zoltor

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 09:06 AM

It's only if they change the drop table azzy. Not just any modifiers.

 

Yes, if they change the drop percent in the "actual" drop table of a mob, then it would effect steal/gank, since they are directly based on the drop tables opposed to the drop rates..

 

To GuardianTK: If a card was not placed in either the 6st or last slot, then in theory, it should be steal/gankable, but oh boy what a oversight that would be.


Edited by Zoltor, 04 October 2013 - 09:10 AM.

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#34 Jaffer

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 11:09 AM

Oh fine.

 

Where did you find out about the role ( is it correct if I assume this= the "steal check"?)= random number?

You can't. This is server side functionality and for good reason.

 

 

So, the server'll calculate the "AdjustedDropRatio" for every item first, then make a role, then checks against the steal 64% chance to see if it succeeds, if not then check again the 64% steal chance for the following items, till the 7th monster drop item slot, if it succeeds then it will drop?

I'm not 100% sure on this but I assume it'd be like this:

User casts Steal 10, which has a 64% chance of success (6400:10000)

So a random number is generated between 0 and 10,000.  If that number is 6400 or less, the Steal will now attempt to Steal an item

 

On success, it will then look at the first item in the drop table, and calculated the AdjustedDropRatio, then it will generate another random number.  If that random number is in the 0~dropratio range, you will get the item.

 

If it is not, then it will move onto the next item.  Now, I do not know if it recalculates the original Steal chance again (64% chance to try for the item), but it will now recalculate the AdjustedDropRatio and recalculate a random number.

 

Also, basically, so the real steal chance for say the above skull you said= 0.91x0.64= 58.24% chance to succeed right?

I guess.  The 64% can act as a safeguard to prevent an item that has a 100% Steal Rate from always turning up.

 

Wait, so throughout a steal attempt, there's only 1 number the server randomly selected to compare with the adjusted rates right?

No, it recalculates every time.  Otherwise, it would be impossible to get anything but the first item in 99% of monsters, since their first drop has the highest % chance.

 

Is db.irowiki.org's monsters' drop slots' order accurate and read left to right and in a downwards fashion?

The general consensus is yes, though how they get that information is not something I know.

 


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#35 vnivni

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

The lowest drop chance is 1, the highest is 10,000.

 

The DropRatio is actually (%Drop)/100%, which will give you a decimal value between 0 and 1.  Since there is 10,000 possible rolls, writing the ratio as x:10,000 would be the most reasonable way.

 

You do not nor will you ever know what the current value of the randomized number is.  It's pretty likely a global seed is used for the entire zone server, so unlike games such as Pokemon where you can play the randomizer, that would be pretty much impossible in RO, so you're leaving it all up to chance.

 

And as Azzy said, a "roll" is just a term coined in tabletop RPGs, where you would roll a dice for random numbers.

 

If DropRatio= %/100%, then eg a Witherless Rose= 3%/100%= 0.03/0.01= 3% to put in

 

AdjustedDropRatio= 3* (100 + 3*10 - 10 + 10)/ 100

 

 

Since your example of your 10% skull drop chance you put the DropRatio= 1,000, I assumed it was "% x 10,000"= 0.10 x 10,000= 1,000

 

 

 

Btw, my question asked how did you know DropRatio= % x 10,000, cause http://irowiki.org/wiki/Steal said nothing on it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where did you find out about the role ( is it correct if I assume this= the "steal check"?)= random number?

You can't. This is server side functionality and for good reason.

 

I mean, how did you conclude that the server roles, a random number, from 1- 10,000 to compare against the AdjustedDropRatio?

 

 

Any1 knows what's a "steal check"?

 

 

 

 

So, the server'll calculate the "AdjustedDropRatio" for every item first, then make a role, then checks against the steal 64% chance to see if it succeeds, if not then check again the 64% steal chance for the following items, till the 7th monster drop item slot, if it succeeds then it will drop?
I'm not 100% sure on this but I assume it'd be like this:

User casts Steal 10, which has a 64% chance of success (6400:10000)

So a random number is generated between 0 and 10,000.  If that number is 6400 or less, the Steal will now attempt to Steal an item

 

On success, it will then look at the first item in the drop table, and calculated the AdjustedDropRatio, then it will generate another random number.  If that random number is in the 0~dropratio range, you will get the item.

 

If it is not, then it will move onto the next item.  Now, I do not know if it recalculates the original Steal chance again (64% chance to try for the item), but it will now recalculate the AdjustedDropRatio and recalculate a random number.

 

I think it makes sense to calculate the steal chance 64% only once, cause basically it's just a check to see if steal triggers, if I'm correct.

 

 

 

 

 

Is db.irowiki.org's monsters' drop slots' order accurate and read left to right and in a downwards fashion?

The general consensus is yes, though how they get that information is not something I know.

 

If anyone can shed some light on this may be helpful.


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#36 BossKi91

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 06:32 PM

ummm... on another low rate server I think similar to this one; one time, i ganked an emperium off a shining plant,

does that not mean that the cards which are same as emperium drop rate of shining plants's are up for grabs too?

that seems like the only logical possibilities if you ask me [:3 that all cards are then "stealable" if anyone is interest in stealing cards from mobs-.

I have testimonial proof that this is how it works, believe me, i am happy to contribute my bits to this thief group-;

I can testify: cards have a chance with steal, just like my cool back story with me and that shining plant and an emperium; its just not a probable chance, but it is still possible in my experience and expanded expertise. 

All the rest done score cuz is a smorguessbored of ambiguity; cuz its all fiction based fangasms, that is all rumors and superstitions, if you want the facts:
 

it worked in one low rate server, why not this one??! |:3 

Hope that answered that question-


Edited by BossKi91, 29 December 2018 - 07:10 PM.

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#37 Toxn

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 06:48 PM

Because you're saying "Low rate server" which means you are talking about private servers.

This isn't a private server, things don't work the same here. Cards are ignored when Steal looks at the monsters drop table.
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#38 vividort

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 06:49 PM

steal reaches a list of items that it can get, runs a calculation and then gets a certain item, cards are steal protected(variable that protects from steal), you can certainly change this property if you have access to it, unless one wants to waste a lot of time in a meaningless pursuit i wouldn't suggest trying this.

 

 

Ps.: that necro tho.


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#39 BossKi91

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 07:33 PM

steal reaches a list of items that it can get, runs a calculation and then gets a certain item, cards are steal protected(variable that protects from steal), you can certainly change this property if you have access to it, unless one wants to waste a lot of time in a meaningless pursuit i wouldn't suggest trying this.

 

 

Ps.: that necro tho.

try investing in dex, then steal will be able to grab better items, izzat simple no calculations needed I gat it set at 70 dex without bless; I am sure thats how I grabbed an item with lowest chance of dropping over the other possible drop list items; tbh, it was on an AEGIS Server so its pretty close to actual server, if I'm not mistaken...


Edited by BossKi91, 29 December 2018 - 08:41 PM.

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#40 mildcontempt

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 07:39 PM

Don't let the haters tell you otherwise mang, I've seen steal get a card before too -- although it was through gank with a rogue, but the principle remains. Keep stealing man you'll get a card yet! 

 

I am not being serious, this is a work of satire. 


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#41 BossKi91

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Posted 29 December 2018 - 08:24 PM

thenks big bro-? I happen to be a prodigious gamer sports fan of the Ragnarok Online 1 MMORPG; charmed-.


 

its about the same odds: I reckon
.


Edited by BossKi91, 29 December 2018 - 08:31 PM.

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