90 replies to this topic

[Prodigy]

^This. We can already sense Guardians/Stones/Barricades, even if it's in castles we own. So, I don't see why they can't make it work for the Emp unless the whole Emp is immune to skills thing is what's preventing player casted Sense on it? Regardless, being able to Sense the Emp would be a great idea since it would give us (both attackers and defenders) a good idea on how long the castle will remain standing.

[Puppet]

I think traps need 25% or more reduction in damage in woe, Traps are ments to slow people down not kill off whole groups of people with easy. And if DB and Cart Cannon are already reduced by woe reductions they they need the same nerf traps do cause they skills are still drop people instantly.

[Prodigy]

About Traps, I'm just bothered by the fact that the caster doesn't go into casting animation when laying down the new Traps. For example, if a Ranger uses Ankle Snare, he bends over and puts down an Ankle Snare. But if he uses a Fire Trap, he doesn't even do any animation and poof, you're suddenly taking damage. From my perspective, this bending down animation is what alerts me that the Ranger is doing something funny and that I should move away or do something. This gets extra confusing when the trapper is inside a crowd and since his sprite is just there standing still, it's hard to pick him out of the crowd.

[Clogon]

About Traps, I'm just bothered by the fact that the caster doesn't go into casting animation when laying down the new Traps. For example, if a Ranger uses Ankle Snare, he bends over and puts down an Ankle Snare. But if he uses a Fire Trap, he doesn't even do any animation and poof, you're suddenly taking damage. From my perspective, this bending down animation is what alerts me that the Ranger is doing something funny and that I should move away or do something. This gets extra confusing when the trapper is inside a crowd and since his sprite is just there standing still, it's hard to pick him out of the crowd.

Though there is no special animation, the animation delay (Based on aspd) is there.


I don't know if anyone would agree with me on this but I think the -25% normal ranged attack is unfair now. This is because Ranged normal attacks don't have a significant damage increase over Melee attacks anymore in RE due to the change in the ATK formula. Dex is linear now so there is no quadratic damage increase. 160 DEX vs 110 STR is a small increase in damage only as it only constitutes 100 status attack damage and 25% of base weapon damage increase in renewal. Bows have low atk, low levels and low slots, making the increase quite negligible compared to before.

In pre RE, this mechanic (-25% range normal attack) was deemed fine as the quadratic formula from dex and the fact that % Atk cards affected all of your damage made up for it. 170 Dex meant (170+(170/10)^2=459 which was almost double that of 110+11^2=231! You can clearly see that the -25% range damage and the weak bows were required to lower the damage to make it more similar. But now, you don't see Dex classes do double the damage of melee chars. The new attack formula makes high attack high lvl and high slotted weapons much more important but bows don't have any of these. All of the deadly Ranged skills belong to the melee and mage classes anyways. <.<

[Akin]

@Prodigy: Not to mention when a Shadow Chaser flying kicks into you so you cannot target him, and then he starts dropping traps.

Edited by Akin, 08 November 2010 - 03:12 PM.

[iCare]

going back to emperium thingy.. I think its a good idea to show the emp HP.

[eerie]

I was discussing this with my guild: Currently Shadow Chasers can use their 3rd class skills to Strip mounts from anyone effected by the skill Masquerade. For Royal Guards & Rune Knights, we have to make a trip back to the NPC to retrieve the mount. For Rangers however, they simply have to re-summon the mount for it to return.

On a side note, mounts should be more access-able outside Prontera in other towns/facilities via the npc. Or the SC skills could be re-examined for possible nerfs.

Also, could use a stronger formula for reduction in such negative effects? Current Status Ailments/WoE Reductions/Stat Reductions are not "Working as intended".

[eerie]

Or should I point out how WoE Reductions can now be bypassed?

[Brindizer]

I was discussing this with my guild: Currently Shadow Chasers can use their 3rd class skills to Strip mounts from anyone effected by the skill Masquerade. For Royal Guards & Rune Knights, we have to make a trip back to the NPC to retrieve the mount. For Rangers however, they simply have to re-summon the mount for it to return.

How pissed would you be if you lost your mount when you died?

Welcome to Mechanic.

Edited by Brindizer, 10 November 2010 - 06:25 AM.

[LethalJokeChar]

I actually think being unable to heal the emperium is a very cool thing. It means damage dealt to the emperium matters. A single player getting past and hitting the emperium a few times creates a permenant (at least until siege ends or the castle breaks) liability to the defending guild. Previously if an attack did not completely destroy the emperium, the effort was worthless; any damage done was repaired in a minute, and the attacking guild is back to square one. Now when sieging a fort any damage you get onto the emperium brings you one step closer to a break, even if your attack ultimately fails. That's a good thing.

No, it's not a good thing. It makes it harder to defend, overall, when it really matters. All attackers have to do is keep pushing on you until your emp is nearly broken. Then, because you are unable to do anything about this damage it doesn't really matter how good your defense is at that point (assuming the sides are somewhat evenly matched... I mean, otherwise the attackers would never have been able to chip away at the emp anyway). They can just wait and come back at their leisure to finish off the emp. Oh, maybe do this to several castles and try to get them all near the end of WoE.~ It's then that you have to employ cheap tactics that are frowned upon, like purposely breaking your own castle with an alt guild not in the alliance.

You make it sound like it's such a bad thing when the damage to an emp can be repaired in a minute, but when an emp could literally go down in 5 sec pre-renewal? No, that didn't matter so much as the ability to thoroughly whomp the defending forces in a timely manner and deploy breakers to the emp. And it was all made easier with recall.

If we are going to give the emp plant defense, it should have 300-400 HP. But then let it be healed by sanctuary, such that sanc heals the emp for 1 HP every 2 skill levels.

I'd rather not give the emp plant defense though. It never needed it in the first place. First of all, it would be a safe bet to at least double the emps' HP. Then give them reasonable defense AND FLEE. Finally, give them passive skills, like that used on wolfhiden and mithril magic manteau that reduce damage further.

[GuardianTK]

No, it's not a good thing. It makes it harder to defend, overall, when it really matters. All attackers have to do is keep pushing on you until your emp is nearly broken. Then, because you are unable to do anything about this damage it doesn't really matter how good your defense is at that point (assuming the sides are somewhat evenly matched... I mean, otherwise the attackers would never have been able to chip away at the emp anyway). They can just wait and come back at their leisure to finish off the emp. Oh, maybe do this to several castles and try to get them all near the end of WoE.~ It's then that you have to employ cheap tactics that are frowned upon, like purposely breaking your own castle with an alt guild not in the alliance.

You make it sound like it's such a bad thing when the damage to an emp can be repaired in a minute, but when an emp could literally go down in 5 sec pre-renewal? No, that didn't matter so much as the ability to thoroughly whomp the defending forces in a timely manner and deploy breakers to the emp. And it was all made easier with recall.

If we are going to give the emp plant defense, it should have 300-400 HP. But then let it be healed by sanctuary, such that sanc heals the emp for 1 HP every 2 skill levels.

I'd rather not give the emp plant defense though. It never needed it in the first place. First of all, it would be a safe bet to at least double the emps' HP. Then give them reasonable defense AND FLEE. Finally, give them passive skills, like that used on wolfhiden and mithril magic manteau that reduce damage further.

A stationary giant inanimate stone can move to flee attacks? Makes a lot of sense. Did you know you can still use SW on the Emp? Just staple a Priest/HP/AB there.

[Charon]

Nonhealable EMP makes things more interesting, but there should still be at least some way to heal it.

Maybe a slow autoheal (like a few HP every few sec or such) when left untouched for a minute? Or perhaps this could be triggered somehow by the guild defending.

Edited by Charon, 25 November 2010 - 02:22 AM.

[Kokotewa]

Nonhealable EMP makes things more interesting, but there should still be at least some way to heal it.

Maybe a slow autoheal (like a few HP every few sec or such) when left untouched for a minute? Or perhaps this could be triggered somehow by the guild defending.

Perhaps the guild skill restore/regeneration could be used to heal the emperium. Restore would give it a buff that would heal for a small amount over time, where as restore would give it a flat bonus of HP.

This would allow a guild to heal one emperium at a time at a fixed timer/cooldown, and it could be stopped by an attacking guild.

A 'double recall rush' could thus be countered by a recall->restore->regen counter, and it would give some use to those guild skills.

[Charon]

Totally forgot about guild skills. That would be perfect for this.

Yes for another important guild skill

[LethalJokeChar]

A stationary giant inanimate stone can move to flee attacks? Makes a lot of sense. Did you know you can still use SW on the Emp? Just staple a Priest/HP/AB there.

I couldn't care less about what seems "realistic" or not at this point. Poisons which could only possibly affect living things with metabolisms affecting every golem/rock/construct monster makes no sense either.

[MagicHands]

Well I personally like the emperium like this, because you cant just send one person in anymore too break an emp. Pretty much you have too wipe there whole guild before you can start attacking the emperium and set up a decent defense for them as well. Just like he said SW, SW, oh look more SW. Though i do have too agree with the restoration guild skill, it sounds like a great idea =D

[Kokotewa]

Another thing I noticed, and that bothered me in pre-renewal, is that heal by any means of the imagination was never worth casting.

KE was always better, and in a pinch heal was used for
1. Healing barricades
2. Healing guardian stones
3. Healing profs during down time
4. Sanc healing emperiums

No one ever used heal, because to be perfectly honest it was stupid as all hell.

Now, in renewal, potions are weaker as maximum hp pool are higher (see a Rune Knight with 100k+ hp compared to a LK with 20k)
Potions received an effectiveness modifier of 1.5x where healing amounts are less than what they were prior.

Now I know there are more healing skills, such as the new highness heal which is about 5k~8k abouts. Sadly this is nothing to a 100k hp Rune Knight.
KE is still by far the better choice, and anyone who casts heal on them deserves to be shot. Same for Warlocks, or any class. Heal is completely and utterly useless.

I asked myself "what would make me want to cast this skill?" and I honestly had a hard time thinking of a situation where it would be viable. Its quite shocking really, if highness heal recovered five times what it does now, it would be on par with clashing spiral. It wouldn't out heal it, it couldn't race it due to the delay, and pneuma/KE would still be far better options to cast, but heal would be viable.

A 120 vit rune knight can recover in the upwards of 20k hp/second by spamming condensed whites, where the realistic heal spam on the same character would recover about 1/4~1/5th this value. Multiplying heal's effectiveness by joblvl/10 (balance/scaling) would not make heal always the best option, but it would make it viable or useful as a role/subset of the class.

[Pururu]

While i agree healing is still pretty bad and should be rised a bit to make it worth the use, i still believe the major problem of that game is coming from pot themselves.
If they had a smart delay between each single use depending on which is used (more delay for yggs berry/seeds), ohko or stupidly strong skill wouldn't be that necessary anymore, it would also fix goh/gfist spam cause it would be harder to get sp back, etc... Impossible to fix anymore though.

Edited by Pururu, 29 November 2010 - 09:53 AM.

[Akin]

can we have kaite affected by /effect please?

[MagicHands]

Hmm maybe putting sensing down as a guild skill would be valuable as well? allowing only the guild leader too sense it and have a cool down as well. just a thought

[Puppet]

when are the kRO balances going in? cause WOE skill sets are still seriously unbalanced going from being 1 shoted at 110 to 2 or 3 shoted at lvl 150 is neither fun or cool. I have not found any joy what so ever on any character class after renewal, To many skill one shot you to many skill are stupidly overpowered

[Lucentos]

OHKO is only option vs some classes and we`re should thank potion and precast systems for this. Precasts at portal spawn making AoE stacking easy, Hitlock adds to this an additional weight and therefore require exceptional recovery capabilities, when most classes past precast area, where AoE succumbs unfortunate players recovery needs will drastically reduce and allow to outpot almost any nonOHKO attacks thrown at you. This is was the reason of Asura in PreTrans times - it was only move that can kill almighty SVD Knights, Devo Crusaders and other vit players as well, it they`re wasn`t divested by Rogues. IMHO there should be reducement of Potion recovery capabilites, but added skills that have Reuse delay, that allow to restore prepotionrecoverynerf state of these items for small time(15-20 seconds per each 150 seconds of increased recovery options).

[D111]

I actually think being unable to heal the emperium is a very cool thing. It means damage dealt to the emperium matters. A single player getting past and hitting the emperium a few times creates a permenant (at least until siege ends or the castle breaks) liability to the defending guild. Previously if an attack did not completely destroy the emperium, the effort was worthless; any damage done was repaired in a minute, and the attacking guild is back to square one. Now when sieging a fort any damage you get onto the emperium brings you one step closer to a break, even if your attack ultimately fails. That's a good thing.

This is very True +1...

I think that the new style Emperium has really changed defense stratagies.

[Lucentos]

IMHO they`re should update MaxHP of Guardian Stones and Barricades - they`re became too fragile with new damage levels of 3rd classes.

[MrMajestic]

i liked it pre renewal. there was selective classes that had the ability to one shot. and even then they had to do it right to even get it off. now a days these RKs can cas an instant shot if they're doing it right before the O.G. instant shotter Champions can get off a G fist or Hells gate. I liked WoE mechanics alot better when the game revolved around defense more so. back then it was alot more balanced. how is it a game any more if you can't have a battle it out with some one till the other persons HP is entirely gone. it's like every one became SINx's to one shot with edp SB. except they can do it ranged. unless you are extremely high level. even then you just die in two shots to any one else that works the front line. why is it so level dependent. i remember back pre renewal I would beast on transcendants as a regular little Black Smith. (not a Master smith, a black Smith) Yeah I had full KvM gear, but then again, what do you do with extremely awsome gear at low levels in WoE in comparison to the others who are higher level than you. the people that have enough time to play this game day in and day out have a superior fighting advantage over every one else. I liked it better when the game was still rewarding to those people who didn't have enough time to play the game so viciously. I personally have like two days to play this game a week, and I'd like to devote that time to WoE time. not leveling. And even if I do have time to level I cannot possibly level up as fast as the "NEW" front line DpSers of the game. i'm just a retarded mechanic. it's hard to level up some classes when the leveling system changed to all about mobbing and who can do that best. look at your 150 winners. tell me how it's fair to the others who can't level like a dragon breather or a genetic can level. why are some classes so stupidly weak compared to others. and then my other complaint with WoE "Mechanics" just look into the mechanics thread. lol