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#1 Heimdallr

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:48 PM

What is bugged, or undesirable about the Rune Knights?

What skills are fine, need tweaking?
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#2 Shanden

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:28 PM

HUNDRED SPEAR.

What a Piece of %$#^

Loud Annoying Noise, barely does any damage compared to Clashing Spiral.

Also LEAVE DRAGONS BREATH ALONE!

I like it, maybe up its Damage abit, hitting 2k is meh, even though i only have 20k HP ATM.

Also a hint, Add formulas onto skills, it makes it easier on us.
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#3 DrAzzy

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:11 PM

I think the most important think about RK is to recognize that, for all the QQing about clashing spiral and dragon breath, those are the only two skills the class has that are particularly useful.

Hundred spear is one of the worst skills in the game, and neither sonic wave nor wind passer are any good either (they hit for a useless amount of damage - in renewal for any skill to be useful in pvm, it must be reasonable to 1-shot stuff with it, or it must be able to function as a mob killing skill, and you must be able to spam it (so the runes are out).

Dragon breath is mildly overpowered in WoE. It should be modified to be effected by WoE reduction, but allowing it to be reduced by both WoE reduction _and_ race reductino would reduce the damage to the "pointless" range.

Do remember when balancing these things, that the people that players are upset over are near max level players wearing tao gunkas and other godly gear, and that balancing for that screws over the vast majority of players who don't have those resources.

Edited by DrAzzy, 01 November 2010 - 04:54 PM.

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#4 Emichio

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:02 PM

Clashing Spiral does too much damage. and its only a reborn second class skill, not even 3rd.

Treating it like other 3rd class skills where at a higher level they do more damage would make alot of sense. like its base overall 66% damage * ( Base Level / 100 ). going to the current damage only at level 150 as Rune Knight.


Along with Gloomy Shyness doing only 200% instead of 300% anywhere or 200% on PVP maps / 300% PVM maps.

Edited by Jaibuu, 01 November 2010 - 05:03 PM.

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#5 Kyomotto

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:07 PM

Reduce the dmg of CS and Dragon breath. Either disable Gloomy Shyness or reduce its effect to 1.5x instead of 3x
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#6 brandon

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:23 PM

Clashing spiral is overpowered and even one shots level 140+ Rune Knights with Gloomy Shyness and Lex Aeterna.

Edited by brandon, 01 November 2010 - 05:23 PM.

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#7 heyxsean

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:28 PM

Dragon breath needs to be made interruptable like all the other skills.
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#8 Emichio

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:31 PM

Clashing spiral is overpowered and even one shots level 140+ Rune Knights with Gloomy Shyness and Lex Aeterna.


That deals up to 55k~ from a CS based build against a RK with proper reductions, usually they wouldnt die I think.

But for other classes most of them will die with Lex Aeterna, from lots of attacks, that doesn't mean everything is absurdly strong =x.

But yea, like i said in the post.. its not even a 3rd class skill..
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#9 Freedom

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:37 PM

ok if you all want cs reduced then they need to fix hundred spear to do the same amount of damage. I can see disabling gloomy in woe. there is no reason to do that much damage. As far as cs goes its fine the way it is granted it is a trans class skill, but its the only skill besides dragon breath that we lvl with and can kill in woe with. They took away our frezny and two hand quicken to kill things with. If you know how to block or reduce cs then its not going to 1 shot you. Plus we are at max dmage with a cardo so the higher lvl you go, we stay at the same damage. Well unless they come out with a heavier weapon whick will not happen.
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#10 Sera

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:42 PM

Dragon's Breath is only massively impressive right now because of tao users. On a normal RK, it's good, but it's not amazing. You also have to remember that the damage sharply declines as you take damage.
For people without a tao, it is almost better to just go with a clashing spiral build imo.

I don't think Clashing Spiral is necessarily overpowered either. I do think that maybe it should be interruptable like Rapid Smiting is, but I think the problem with it is more Gloomy Shyness being ridiculous rather than Clashing itself.

Without Clashing and Dragon's Breath, RKs have pretty much nothing useful at all.
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#11 Emichio

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:48 PM

Tao adds 57%~ more HP in practice, compared to using glorious. And without tao, you can still kill squishy ppl :)

the skill is quite decent atm, I don't see why would they nerf it beyond the current kRO update.
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#12 Freedom

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:49 PM

Oh and do not forget kro lowered the hp on RK so DB damage will go down with that.
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#13 Ralis

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:11 PM

Clashing Spiral needs to be interruptable or have a cooldown.

Gloomy Shyness should not give a buff to Clashing Spiral. Alone the skill is fine, with Gloomy it's basically a 1 shot for any class.
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#14 porty

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:21 PM

Leave both CS and DB as they are.

Knights have been nerfed to death for way too long, and people are quick to forget guild droppers like guillotine fist and such.

Knights are currently what they were designed to be, strong killing machines, the fighting force of any guild.

nerf the only 2 decent skills they possess and i might as well pack it all in and play a super novice.
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#15 Ralis

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:24 PM

I know plenty of former LKs that were killing people with CS / BB without God items before Renewal. Guillotine Fist takes all your SP, so it's a tradeoff. CS takes, what, 30 SP?
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#16 Freedom

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:30 PM

I use to play champ in woe, it was easy to get your sp back. yes it took money, but that how the class worked.
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#17 Ralis

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:36 PM

Yes, it was an expensive class to play. LK was not. =P
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#18 porty

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:36 PM

I know plenty of former LKs that were killing people with CS / BB without God items before Renewal. Guillotine Fist takes all your SP, so it's a tradeoff. CS takes, what, 30 SP?


Maybe but CS kills 1 at a time not whole guilds like GF used to.
Knights have been a so-so player in WOE for so long now its stupid.
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#19 Ralis

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:43 PM

Maybe but CS kills 1 at a time not whole guilds like GF used to.
Knights have been a so-so player in WOE for so long now its stupid.


...Err... No? They're both single hit skills. @@
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#20 Theoretical

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:45 PM

I feel that both Dragons Breath and Clashing Spiral should be made interruptible. I also feel that Gloomy Shyness should only multiply 1.5-2x damage in WoE/PvP environments. Ontop of that, most RK skills are useless....lots of their attacks need buffs to make more than 1 build able to succeed.


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#21 Freedom

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:48 PM

no gloomy should not be in woe.
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#22 Doddler

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:05 PM

Without Clashing and Dragon's Breath, RKs have pretty much nothing useful at all.


Apparently no one on iRO has wiped an entire guild with storm blast yet since there's no one QQ'ing about how broken that skill is. :)
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#23 Kokotewa

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 10:38 AM

Apparently no one on iRO has wiped an entire guild with storm blast yet since there's no one QQ'ing about how broken that skill is. :(

Saw triki do it! I don't think they knew what killed them though. Also, CS is fine Ralis! Strong yes, easily counterable...YES!
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#24 Tolrin

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:35 AM

Well, I'll start my post with the skills which are fine and do not need to be tweaked:

Clashing Spiral
Dragon Breath
Enchant Blade
Ignition Break
most of the runes

All of these are fine. Storm blast rune is the only thing out of that that may be a little bit on the strong side, but even then it seems reasonable to me based on it's use restrictions.

Everyone who is complaining about clashing spiral or dragon breath clearly do not play well in a group as the skills are both easily reducible or preventable, and are probably also low level without the HP pools required to survive. In my opinion strong single target skills like this are necessary to prevent people from running around solo without a team or any strategy, which is what seems to be common on iRO, and is probably why many people have trouble against it.

As other people have mentioned, certain rune knight skills such as thousand spear and a few other could certainly use reevaluation in terms of their usefulness, as they are not only worse than other skills, they are generally worse than just regular physical attacks... which is pretty bad in terms of balance.
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#25 Akin

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:40 AM

RKs deserve a strong, single target skill, and currently CS fits the bill nicely, especially with Gloomy. However, it is a trans skill, so I think that's kinda weird.

I'd rather see CS go back to it's old damage, have Hundred Spear buffed, and let Gloomy affect Hundred Spear.

Edited by Akin, 02 November 2010 - 11:40 AM.

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