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#26 heyxsean

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:05 PM

Everything is fine with RK imo, they just need their skills to be made interruptable...seems kinda funky that they're the only class with cast time bars that doesn't get interrupted, but :(
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#27 Kaden14

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 03:46 PM

Everything is fine with RK imo, they just need their skills to be made interruptable...seems kinda funky that they're the only class with cast time bars that doesn't get interrupted, but :(


I agree, making dragon breath and CS interruptible would be a good idea. Aside from that, CS doesn't seem too bad to me and if dragon breath were actually reduced by gear properly it would be fine.
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#28 Amor

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 06:27 PM

Cast interruption for DB and CS is a good idea. I wont say whether or not CS should be tweaked further since it does already have quite a few drawbacks, so im not sure.

On DB, I don't think the base damage should be nerfed, but the dev team should consider making one type of reductions apply to it. If you took Dragon Breath right now and applied all the normal reductions, it would be worthless; apply either the WoE reduction, racial reductions, or the element resist reduction (glorious rings, valk shield). IMO either of the latter two would be best since it would allow players to gear against it without just using a fire armor.

Edited by Amor, 02 November 2010 - 06:28 PM.

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#29 Dukeares

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 05:20 AM

Clashing Spirial Seriouly need Nerf....

ANy LK here or RK shoud go PVP with 0 equipment except a spear and go CS Other LK or KNight
( with FUll Equip) u shoud see that there something wrong

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#30 Kmac

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:02 PM

With the revamping of all the monsters, pretty much everything you're fighting has insane HP now, in comparison to your level. Knights have always been gimped in the past with so-so skills, and decent tanking abilities (that usually sucked in comparison to their job-counterpart, crusader/paladin/royal guard). Clashing Spiral did OK damage pre-renewal in comparison to the monsters you'd face at a given level. However, once you hit that damage cap, there really wasn't very much you could do to make your damage any better and compete with the better skills out there from other classes.

Post-renewal, not much has changed in that aspect. Everybody sees that the damage has been buffed up immensely with renewal, and that's what everyone's so bent out of shape about, but if you look at it in the big picture; Clashing Spiral will be replaced with other, more useful, skills once everybody gets into their higher levels and max levels. You really can't do much more damage, unless you have a Gloomy slave following you around everywhere you go, and that isn't that realistic for the majority of people.

Lord Knights and Rune Knights don't have many leveling options anymore, skill-wise. Their ability to go two-hand is still there, but seeing as ASPD is nerfed horribly post-renewal, I doubt you'll see many agi-based RKs out there anymore. The fact that Clashing Spiral actually got made into a good skill is, in my opinion, about damn time that knights can actually do something well by themselves again. However, the fact that their "new" Clashing skill hundred spear sucks horribly, just shows how they always get gimped in some way, lol.

A lot of Knights/Lord Knight's skills are gimped now that renewal has hit. Once you get into a decent level, say 80-99(?) the only viable skills now for leveling are clashing or bowling bash(brandish spear maybe?) but in comparison to the monsters you'll be leveling on, and their new hp pools, really the only decent one is clashing unless you love to mob (but that gets very expensive over time, and most players wouldn't be able to afford it).

I play a Rune Knight, and haven't been able to test out many builds/skills on it due to low base/job levels, so I haven't been able to test most things for myself yet, but seeing as everybody who has, says Hundred sucks, that should definitely be taken into account and re-done into a more fitting skill that will be able to surpass Clashing's usefulness at higher levels.

I also agree that Dragon Breath should have some form of reduction applied to it in WoE, but with my own testing and average gears(i.e. no tao armor) I didn't do enough damage for my personal liking when testing it out leveling.. but I can see how someone with the right gears/levels/build can outright dominate with it, so putting some sort of mild nerf on it wouldn't be too unreasonable. Possibly just making it's cast interrupt-able would suffice, I don't know. I do think that it should only be nerfed in WoE damage-wise, because as of right now the only decent skills Rune Knights have are clashing and dragon breath, like many have said before me. Having the skill interrupt-able would be fine with me, since most other skills are interruptable - especially in WoE. I don't think that clashing spiral should be made interruptable, though. It never has been (right? I never used it much before because it wasn't very good), so I don't see the point in changing that component now.

Gloomy Shyness, if anything, should have its' damage-increase reduced inside WoE castles to something more reasonable if people really can't stand clashing damages... maybe even unusable during siege hours(but I could see a lot of issues with that and people who don't WoE getting mad about not being able to use it) but this nerf should be brought up in their threads and not here, imo. Or, maybe make it to where Gloomy doesn't increase clashing damage, but increases hundred's damage.. maybe then that skill would be remotely useful.

I really do believe that the majority of people complaining so vigorously about how Clashing Spiral needs to be nerfed are just under-leveled and/or geared, because there are quite a lot of ways to counter it or render it useless. If it really comes down to it though, Clashing Spiral should only be nerfed in WoE, because nerfing it in all aspects would effectively kill most LK/RK's leveling ability, and we'd be stuck yet again with useless skills and no party options except for tanks/lurers.

I'll probably add more to this later as I get higher up in levels, but for now that's all I've got.
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#31 Spinzaku

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Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:18 PM

Apparently no one on iRO has wiped an entire guild with storm blast yet since there's no one QQ'ing about how broken that skill is. :P


I dunno about you, but with 140 int I have yet to one-shot anyone with it. I think I capped out at 20-25k damage on it. It's not as great as I thought it would be. My average Dragon Breath runs about 32-33k against a neutral armored player.

I think that Rune Knights are fine, but Gloomy Shyness shouldn't apply to Clashing. That would be the only thing that's worth fixing. Someone said it already, but to be an effective WoE RK your two skills are CS/DB. The rest are massively under those two skills in raw damage output and just don't make enough of a difference.

I think something is wrong when a 99 LK one-shots a 150 Genetic. CS is fine as a skill, Gloomy is the problem.

Edited by Spinzaku, 03 November 2010 - 09:18 PM.

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#32 Budro

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 08:50 AM

I've always thought CS was over powered. Especially sence LK's didn't get a single new sword specific attack skill.
The RK sword skills sound intersting.. but I'm not sure how to make the build if it requires a ton of INT.
In actual combat, the spear would have additional armor piercing ability, but only at a certain range. For close combat, swords would win over bulky spears everytime.

Edited by Budro, 04 November 2010 - 09:08 AM.

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#33 Kmac

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 10:55 AM

The thing is, Gravity doesn't like sword-specific skills on knights. Most, if not all, of knight's (knight/lk/rk) sword skills have been made so spears can be used with them as well. Why use a two-handed sword to use bowling bash, when you can get added reduction from a spear/shield combo? Same with Ignition Break on RK, or any of their other "sword-based" skills...

Pretty sure I personally love going two-hand on my knights and always have, but when you're gimped from the start since you could be better at protecting yourself/using less potions/still doing around the same damage with using a shield/spear combo instead, it's almost pointless to try to be two-hand, unless you're messing around for fun.

The fact that they made it so you can use two-hand swords and stuff with clashing is great, imo, since they rape all the two-hand skills by letting you use spears with them. About time you get to do the same with the spear skills, even if it's only the one.

I thought the left side of the rune knight's skill tree were all going to be sword-specific, and the right spear-specific, but that wouldn't be fair to everyone since there'd only be like one new spear skill, and at least 3 sword skills.. the blasphemy. :P
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#34 Doddler

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 11:05 AM

I dunno, I'm having fun on my two handed RK on ygg with almost no gears. :P The best part of 2hand RK is that you can easily shift to other gear sets if you want without seriously limiting your performance.


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#35 Skank

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Posted 04 November 2010 - 03:19 PM

making cs be interruptable would probably solve alot of the complaints about gloomy cs being so strong
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#36 Spinzaku

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 02:23 PM

I dunno, I'm having fun on my two handed RK on ygg with almost no gears. :P The best part of 2hand RK is that you can easily shift to other gear sets if you want without seriously limiting your performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ylyb559p2pE



One thing I noticed while leveling RK is that you really don't need a whole lot of STR to hit hard with a melee-based build. I leveled with Bowling Bash until the mid 120s (despite having god items at my disposal) and it was done with a very low STR build that focused on VIT/DEX/INT. :x

If Gloomy Shyness is going to nerfed, I think it should retain its current form for PvM.
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#37 famiong

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Posted 08 November 2010 - 01:05 AM

I do not agree that Dragon Breath should ignore the followings:

Ignores racial % reduction cards/ equipment(like thara frog, Beret, etc..)
Ignores elemental % reduction cards/ equipment(G.rings, Jakk Card, valk shield, etc..)
Ignores ranged % reductions from equipment and cards(Horn,Alligator, Long Mace)
Ignores size % reductions
Ignores target def.
Ignores Race Increase (Alice/Am Mut)
Ignores Elemental Increase (Deviling)
Ignores 40% Skill damage reduction in WOE

I strongly believe DB is overpowering in WOE/PVP/BG, more so with Godly Items.

Until Dragon Breath is fixed, propose to follow jRO's lead (Oct 26, 2010) in disabling DB in WOE and other PVP environment.

As for Clashing Spiral, there is unconfirmed reports that the formulae may be incorrect - applying Base Level of RK twice, thus further amplifying the damage. Suggest to investigate on this and if true, rectify the Clashing Spiral Damage formulae.
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#38 eerie

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 05:22 AM

Clashing spiral is overpowered and even one shots level 140+ Rune Knights with Gloomy Shyness and Lex Aeterna.


I'm a low level RK, and I survive just fine without "godly" gears. CS is not that overpowered, plus it's been counter-able since day 1.
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#39 eerie

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 05:29 AM

Clashing Spiral needs to be interruptable or have a cooldown.


Clashing Spiral already has a cool down Ralis: The cast time can be reduced by increasing dex but the cooldown time is (2 sec).

About the same amount of time as a Lex Aternia's after cast delay. Plus the ASPD nerf probably increases this more so for RK's who don't take AGI.

Edited by eerie, 10 November 2010 - 05:30 AM.

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#40 DrAzzy

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 10:43 AM

I'm a low level RK, and I survive just fine without "godly" gears. CS is not that overpowered, plus it's been counter-able since day 1.


Yup. CS is fine as is (and indeed rune knights would be weak with out it). Gloomy needs to be defanged, but i really worry that if these people yelling about CS get their way, RK will be left with no effective killing skills.
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#41 Kokotewa

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 11:20 AM

I think even gloomy CS is fine, as it has so many counters.
aco class-pneuma
thief class-Hwalk flee/shadowform
crusader-defending aura
mechanic-pneuma field
performer-harmonize
sorcerer-wall of fog

So that leaves wizard and genetics. I know our guild sacrifices wizards/genetics with defending aura.
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#42 Spinzaku

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 02:28 PM

I think even gloomy CS is fine, as it has so many counters.
aco class-pneuma
thief class-Hwalk flee/shadowform
crusader-defending aura
mechanic-pneuma field
performer-harmonize
sorcerer-wall of fog

So that leaves wizard and genetics. I know our guild sacrifices wizards/genetics with defending aura.


Yup. There are many, many counters to the Rune Knight class. Shadow Chaser is probably the most effective, followed by a Royal Guard (D.Aura+Sac) and anyone with Pneuma. Stuff like Warg Bite and Extreme Vacuum can really screw us too. Although, I do somewhat agree that gloomy Clashing does too much, if you think about it there are not many other ways to kill people effectively in a high level WoE.
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#43 brandon

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 03:23 PM

when two rks are csing you w/gloomy it's gonna hurt :D
and ignition break hurts i just dont think many rks had it yet
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#44 Miii

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Posted 10 November 2010 - 07:41 PM

Nerf CS sience AB and cannon got nerfed please, kthxbye.
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#45 eerie

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 02:00 PM

I'd take a nerf on Gloomy. :P /swt
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#46 Akin

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Posted 11 November 2010 - 02:44 PM

I think even gloomy CS is fine, as it has so many counters.
aco class-pneuma
thief class-Hwalk flee/shadowform
crusader-defending aura
mechanic-pneuma field
performer-harmonize
sorcerer-wall of fog

So that leaves wizard and genetics. I know our guild sacrifices wizards/genetics with defending aura.


Harmonize doesn't counter CS or Gloomy CS, it just counters belts/hammers. The best performer counter for CS is Siren's Voice.


I'd take a nerf on Gloomy. :P /swt



No please, it's my only good buff. I'll only accept if you can get them to fix the rest of my skills!
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#47 Eminence

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 05:55 PM

Nerf CS sience AB and cannon got nerfed please, kthxbye.


You're terrible and die to everything else anyway, just stfu and get out baddie.

Anyways I think it's Knight's turn to have the new EDP (Gloomy Shyness) Show some love for the knight class, we were always weak, we're basically the new SinX's of renewal, without cloak, there's nothing to change really, it's also counterable and I can tank it if I'm not lexed.
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#48 Miii

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 07:26 PM

You're terrible and die to everything else anyway, just stfu and get out baddie.

Anyways I think it's Knight's turn to have the new EDP (Gloomy Shyness) Show some love for the knight class, we were always weak, we're basically the new SinX's of renewal, without cloak, there's nothing to change really, it's also counterable and I can tank it if I'm not lexed.


Talking about terrible people...
Posted Image nuff said.

Meg isn't that great in renewal. (Bump)


Indeed.

Do i have to look for that chat which you were saying converters bypass valk shield and glorious rings? don't get embarassed even more.

Edited by Miii, 12 November 2010 - 07:29 PM.

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#49 Eminence

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 05:11 PM

Talking about terrible people...
Posted Image nuff said.


Indeed.

Do i have to look for that chat which you were saying converters bypass valk shield and glorious rings? don't get embarassed even more.


Old. Not your material, you're bad, I can quote you on MSN saying that you wear valk armor so my converters do nothing.

You-_- when you get one shotted without EDP and say I use EDP, and any skill that kills you, you think is OP, let's face it you're just binn's-_- and you're bad at the game, go acid-bomb level some more scrub.
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#50 Miii

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 05:34 PM

When I said nerf CS i didn't even meant pvp, I can tank that with full reductions :) , please stop lying and exaggerating.
- I said converters do nothing on valk armor? O_o what are you talking about, stop making up random stories, also do I even have you on msn? :)
- this is renewal, why do you even talk about edp? I belive no one even gets killed by that. ^^;
- I only use bombs for mvp :unsure: not worth wasting on random monsters.

If you are going to troll, at least do it good @__@;

-

back on topic plz. :)
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