123 replies to this topic

[heyxsean]

[Kmac]

First off, I also think that the Arch Bishop skill tree needs to be reworked. Having to get battle skills to access support skills, and vice verse, is ridiculous. Something like this, maybe:


And please note that this is just my opinion on how I think the skills could be utilized better. I made this tree in Paint, using a screenshot of my AB's skill tree, and the skill icons off irowiki. I tried to make my skill tree as easy to read as possible, and as simple as possible (pre-required skills are above the skills, so everything goes down in lines). It wouldn't necessarily have to be exactly like the layout I made, but I think that that layout would work well with most, if not all, of the skills... but again, that's just my opinion.

With the skills set how I worked them, it's easier to identify the battle-oriented skills, the buff/party buff-oriented skills, and also the status removal+inflicting skills. I like to keep things organized, if you couldn't tell. ;]

As for my other opinions/ideas:

Heal
I also agree that heal should be buffed, because with everyone having higher HP pools, you spend most of your time spamming heal on your party members (and wasting all your SP)... I'm not sure how much of a buff is needed, though. There are ways already in-game to increase your heal. With average gears, I have a steady heal of around 2.2-2.5k with only 100+x INT, and a +9 Healing Staff. More, when my Angelic Ring procs it's healing boost. I think that, if they made it so regular people who don't have insane gears could hit heals of about 3k normally, that would be a good enough heal amount. Possibly make it scale with your level, so the higher level you are; the higher heal you have?

Ancilla
I think Ancilla's should be storagable, that you should be able to carry more than 3 at a time, and also that you should be able to make more than one at a time. Possibly like how Runes are made? Where you have a chance to make 1-3 Ancilla each time you cast it (so long as you have the materials to create one Ancilla). I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of being able to hold 10 at a time, and being able to storage them when needed. I don't see why you aren't able to storage them; every other item similar to these are storagable, and you can hold much more than 3 at a time. I'd like to be able to spend some free time in town stocking up on Ancilla for later parties, but that may just be me.

Epiclesis
This skill needs to be buffed some. The only reason people get it is because it's a prereq. for Sacrament. It's healing capabilities/hp increase are very low, the duration is way too short, and the aftercast delay is terrible.
Right now it's:
Level 1 - Max HP +5% - HP Regen +3% - SP Regen +2% - 18 sec duration
Level 2 - Max HP +10% - HP Regen +3% - SP Regen +2% - 21 sec duration
Level 3 - Max HP +15% - HP Regen +4% - SP Regen +3% - 24 sec duration
Level 4 - Max HP +20% - HP Regen +4% - SP Regen +3% - 27 sec duration
Level 5 - Max HP +25% - HP Regen +5% - SP Regen +4% - 30 sec duration
With a Cooldown time of 60 Seconds regardless of level.

If it were changed to something like:
Level 1 - Max HP +10% - HP Regen +5% - SP Regen +4% - 21 sec duration
Level 2 - Max HP +15% - HP Regen +5% - SP Regen +4% - 24 sec duration
Level 3 - Max HP +20% - HP Regen +8% - SP Regen +6% - 27 sec duration
Level 4 - Max HP +25% - HP Regen +8% - SP Regen +6% - 30 sec duration
Level 5 - Max HP +30% - HP Regen +10% - SP Regen +8% - 33 sec duration
With a Cooldown time of 40 Seconds regardless of level.

This skill would be more useful, but not super over-powered. You'd be able to regain more HP/SP quicker, with a little more duration (one more tick on the regens for the skill), but not very much more max HP gain in total. The cooldown would be reduced 20 seconds, too, which wouldn't make the skill spammable (because you'd still have to wait 7 seconds to lay another tree down at max level)... but it would make it a lot more useful.

- A peeve I had with this skill is when I was getting ready to reset my AB, I had to wait 2 minutes wasting my Ancillas with this skill, because they couldn't be put into storage, and they weigh 1 each so they have to be used before resetting.

Eucharistica
I'm not sure if this needs a buff or not, since I haven't used it, but 10% more resistance/attack seems kind of low to me with how many skill points it takes to max it. Maybe buff it up to 30% or something, to make it worth getting on battle priests?

Expiatio
Expiatio just needs to work. If they can't figure out how to make it work, they should make it into a new skill or something. Something worth-while for the battle bishops out there. Maybe something like a Hunter Fly-card effect or something? To where, when it's used you have a certain % chance to steal a certain % of the HP of the mob you're killing, and regain it for yourself? Maybe like 10% chance, 10% HP regain at max level? I have no idea. Something useful for the battle bishops, though. Or, possibly instead of it's 25% bypassing-defense for 150 seconds at level 5, you just regain 5% of every attack you do as HP for 150 seconds? Idk, just some ideas... it could be something completely different, lol.

Judex
Judex is lacking power. It's cool that we finally get a quicker AoE, but the damage-output is terrible. The 3x3 is also very tiny, in my opinion. Maybe it could go from:
Level 1: 300% 3x3 Range
Level 2: 320% 3x3 Range
Level 3: 340% 3x3 Range
Level 4: 360% 3x3 Range
Level 5: 400% 3x3 Range
to:
Level 1: 600% 3x3 Range
Level 2: 700% 4x4 Range
Level 3: 800% 5x5 Range
Level 4: 900% 6x6 Range
Level 5: 1000% 7x7 Range
or something similar.

I originally had mine buffed at:
Level 1: 400% 3x3 Range
Level 2: 500% 3x3 Range
Level 3: 600% 4x4 Range
Level 4: 700% 4x4 Range
Level 5: 800% 5x5 Range
but it seems like people'd still think that was too low/small aoe-range, so I adjusted my first one. I wouldn't mind either buff, personally, so long as the skill got buffed.

High Heal
High heal could be a lot better, and more widely used if it was buffed. Someone mentioned earlier that the effects should be reversed or w/e, and I agree. Right now High Heal scales like this:
Level 1: Heals 2x - 70 SP - 3 sec reuse delay
Level 2: Heals 2.3x - 100 SP - 6 sec reuse delay
Level 3: Heals 2.6x - 130 SP - 9 sec reuse delay
Level 4: Heals 2.9x - 160 SP - 12 sec reuse delay
Level 5: Heals 3.2x - 190 SP - 15 sec reuse delay

If it were buffed, but reversed like this:
Level 1: Heals 2x - 100 SP - 10 sec reuse delay
Level 2: Heals 2.5x - 110 SP - 8 sec reuse delay
Level 3: Heals 3x - 120 SP - 6 sec reuse delay
Level 4: Heals 3.5x - 130 SP - 4 sec reuse delay
Level 5: Heals 4x - 150 SP - 2 sec reuse delay

It would make it worth it to put more than one point into High Heal (skill delay and heal amount-wise).

Renovatio
Renovatio has already been discussed a lot as well, but I also agree that it needs to be buffed to make it worthwhile to use. If the % of HP regained isn't changed from 3% to something higher, like 8% or w/e, then at least change the duration from 90 seconds to 180 seconds... or possibly even longer, 240 maybe(4 minutes)? So it would actually be useful and not have to be cast that often.

Personally, I love this skill. It isn't too useful on the lower HP pool characters, but on Rune Knights and the like, it's a pretty nice skill. I get healed about 600-700 HP each tick on my Bishop, depending on my gears... my Rune Knight gets healed about 1.2k per tick with his gears, so it is nice on the higher-HP characters as is, it just could be better for the crappy HP guys.

Heal bombing with this (plus a few Heal/High Heal combos thrown in) is pretty entertaining as well, if not slow.

Sacrament
Right now, this is the main skill that's super useful for bishops to get. The problem is that it takes sooo long to actually get it even to level 1 (job 28 I think, if you go straight for it. 31 if you get party agi up first). With my "proposed" skill tree overhaul, it would make getting this skill a lot easier.. which would boost parties with bishops (since they would be helping a lot more for anyone who casts anything).

I'd suggest, using my skill tree, that in order to get Sacrament you'd have to max Clementia/Canto Candidus, and get 5 points into Praefation. Maybe even have to max Praefation, but I'm not sure. 5 still seems like a good number to me.

Lauda Agnus/Ramus
In essence, these skills seem really cool. Except that they have a 50% chance to work. Status effects, and recovering from them, should happen quickly. Right now these skills do:
Level 1 - 35% success chance
Level 2 - 40% success chance
Level 3 - 45% success chance
Level 4 - 50% success chance
If they were buffed to:
Level 1 - 40% success chance
Level 2 - 60% success chance
Level 3 - 80% success chance
Level 4 - 100% success chance
Or, if 100% is too overpowered...
Level 1 - 40% success chance
Level 2 - 60% success chance
Level 3 - 70% success chance
Level 4 - 80% success chance
these skills would be much better, and worth maxing. Especially with the new statuses they'll be able to remove in the future.

Clearance
Clearance should be able to be cast on anybody (including yourself!). It shouldn't matter if they're in your party, guild, or just a random mob (I haven't checked.. does clearance work on mobs?) at 100% success rate at max level. It should also have a shorter cool-down to reuse it. The point of this skill now is mainly to take off Mandragora Howl, and when everyone is Howled, waiting for you to de-buff them, the 10 second cool-down is ridiculous. 3-5 seconds should be long enough delay for this skill.

Magnus Exorcismus
The new reduced cast time/delay on Magnus that got implemented as of late is very nice, and a step in the right direction if you ask me. That, of course, wasn't the only problem we had with Magnus. It's damage output is terrible in comparison to most other skills, not to mention it's Demon/Undead restrictions.

Anyone who tried leveling with Magnus before the new cast time will probably agree with me that ME's cast doesn't need to be reduced any more (maybe?). As it is now, the cast is quick enough for your average mobs... much, much, much better than it was pre-patch.

The problem now is it's damage output. At level 130(+) I manage about a 9k-14k per "hit" on Magnus, depending on whether or not I'm using a Bryn. That's with a +4 Divine Cross+Spiritual Ring+Clip combo. It might seem okay at lower levels, but it's terrible at higher levels. I know it shouldn't be an amazing leveling skill since it's a Priest skill, and not a 3rd class skill... but as it is right now, this is pretty much the only AoE skill we have that isn't craptastic (hey-o Judex). The other thing that's annoying is that you can't mob huge mobs, because after a certain amount of hits, the ME cells disappear... so you have to become a member of the Magnus Dance Crew and jazz it up all around your ME to make sure your cells don't disappear, and the mobs die in one ME.

Doubling Magnus's damage wouldn't be smart, either, as that's like putting a band-aid on a broken arm; useless. Magnus's damage should be scaled by base level, making it so as a Priest/High Priest it'll do okay damage, but as an Arch Bishop (especially the higher level ones) you can do a lot better damage than your P/HP counterparts. Monster's HP pools jump drastically from the high one-teens low 120's, to 130-150. We need skills that are able to compete with other classes, so we don't always have to party with someone to level.

Because let's face it. The only time people party priests now is if they don't want to waste their items (glorified kafra-shop slave), they can't take the map themselves (glorified heal/buff/tank slave), or they're so bored/tired of hearing you-_- and moan about not being able to level they take pity on you. We're either stuck grinding with our crappy aoe's getting terrible exp/hour, or we steal half of someone else's exp and call it a day.


And, someone else suggested a buffed-up Lex Aeterna earlier in this thread. I also had an idea about a buff for Lex Aeterna. This is, of course, just a wet dream idea. ;]

Lux Aeterna
A great light shines upon on you! All monsters in range receive the Lex Aeterna effect, doubling the damage done for the next hit. With something along the lines of Silentium's ranges:
Level 1: 9x9 - 4 second reuse delay
Level 2: 11x11 - 4 second reuse delay
Level 3: 13x13 - 5 second reuse delay
Level 4: 15x15 - 6 second reuse delay
Level 5: 17x17 - 8 second reuse delay
With something like a 2 second fixed-cast time, and a high-ish skill-specific reuse delay, so you wouldn't be a sitting duck after casting it. Possibly make it take 2 Holy Waters per cast, too? I don't know..

Where this skill would go, I figure down the list of the status buffs on the right, below Silentium... where you'd have to get 2 into Lauda Agnus/Ramus, Max Clearance and Max Silentium to get it. I doubt it'd ever be implemented, but it would be awesome if it was, lol. ;]

Anyway, going to reiterate that all these proposals/ideas are just that... ideas and opinions. Something to get your creative juices flowing and help make bishops worth playing/partying. Any of my ideas can be tweaked if they seem too overpowered or whatever.

Edited by Kmac, 05 June 2011 - 03:50 PM.

[Lucentos]

I`m agree with Skilltree change, Highness Heal change, Judex change.

[Lauda81]

+ 1 for most changes (HH, Judex). Seeing how kR0 is rolling out major buffs for 3-1 classes, there might be additional tweaks to AB skills...
I'm not too optimistic about an ME buff... I don't expect them to focus on it. What are the odds for them to take a look at ME? AoE Lex would be sweet indeed, but I'd give it a longer cooldown (30sec at least at max lvl) and a smaller aoe at all lvls: targetable 3x3 or 5x5 tops

Renovatio:
Needs a complete overhaul. Change it to a buff that temporarily boosts heals received by target. The current skill looks retarded next to Gentle Touch: Revitalize..
90sec 10-15% bonus recovery or scale the bonus recovery on base lvl of the caster. blvl 100: +10% blvl 150: 15%

Expiatio:
Gentle Touch: Convert outshines this one, not to mention Striking.. (aren't we supposed to be the heal/buff class? Sometimes I feel like making a support sura because their buffs are so much better )
Change it to StatATK BONUS : [Caster's (INT/6) + (STR/6)]x (skillLV + (1 + LV of Impositio Manus learned)/5)
.. and add a penalty on healing received by target if this looks too unbalanced.

Epiclesis:
Keep the max HP/SP bonus for 10s after you step out of the AoE

Lauda Ramus/Agnus:
Make it behave like offensive bless when used against demon and undead...

Oratio:
lvl1: -3% resist against holy
lvl10: -30% resist
with the cast time change that was proposed earlier.

Silentium:
Underwhelming compared to CCircle and given the prereqs.
Give it a longer cooldown and an aspd/mspd debuff
lvl1: 2% ASPD/MSPD reduction
lvl5: 10% ASPD/MSPD reduction

Eucharistica:
Boost the bonus % against demon and shadow and make it affect MATK too.. and add a permanent heal reduction/penalty % (on your heals not on those you receive from others). It would be a fair tradeoff and allow more variety in builds.
lvl 1: +1.5% ATK/MATK -1.5% DMG REDUCTION -1.5% HEALING/RECOVERY
...
lvl 10: +15% ATK/MATK -15% DMG REDUCTION -15% HEALING/RECOVERY

Of course any buffs to the ME/exorcist line will be remain slightly irrelevant until new demon mobs at 140+ are implemented..

[Trixdee]

Needs party assumptio skill :'(

[Lucentos]

And New Assumptio will be good if it will be allowed to be used in WoE freely.

[Ularis]

Lux Aeterna love the input

It would be nice if it stacks over ground targeted skills. (if considered).

[Lucentos]

Assumptio should be allowed in WoE and High Heal should have 3 sec reuse delay at all Lvls to be fine.

[SoroTrestal]

Needs party assumptio skill :'(

Amen, the effect/skill exists (Stupid Party Buff Assumptio) so why couldn't they add this to the AB's skill tree ?

@Kmac The Judex change would be awesome, and nice work with the skill tree the path to sac is stupid atm.

What would you guys think about the AB having a skill with the effect of the Group Fly Wings ?

Edited by SoroTrestal, 05 July 2011 - 02:10 AM.

[Lucentos]

What would you guys think about the AB having a skill with the effect of the Group Fly Wings ?

I`m thinking that this skill can increase usability of partyplay in endgame dungeons, as well as in the earlier dungeons allowing greater effecient telesearch of mobpacks.

Let`s this skill will be quest one. Can be obtained at Job Lvl 10 Archbishop.

Skill:
Exodus.
MaxSkill Lvl - 1.
Sp cost - 100-150 sp. Prequisite - Teleport Lvl 2.
Cast time - 1 second. Aftercast - 1 second. Reuse delay - 2 seconds.
Catalyst - 1 blue gem.
Effect - teleports the whole party to random spot on map.

By the way this skill can turn small parties with ArchBishops far more desireable.

Edited by Lucentos, 05 July 2011 - 06:03 PM.

[SoroTrestal]

I`m thinking that this skill can increase usability of partyplay in endgame dungeons, as well as in the earlier dungeons allowing greater effecient telesearch of mobpacks.

Let`s this skill will be quest one. Can be obtained at Job Lvl 10 Archbishop.

Skill:
Exodus.
MaxSkill Lvl - 1.
Sp cost - 100-150 sp. Prequisite - Teleport Lvl 2.
Cast time - 1 second. Aftercast - 1 second. Reuse delay - 2 seconds.
Catalyst - 1 blue gem.
Effect - teleports the whole party to random spot on map.

By the way this skill can turn small parties with ArchBishops far more desireable.

Agreed, and nice Skill Description.

This would boost the need for AB's in parties again imho.

[Aeolus]

Wow you just made a quest skill actually useful +1

[KaneBlueriver]

Eucharistica

Honestly instead of this, personally would prefer a passive skill of a... book mastery. I don't understand why Priest class don't have this.

Even nicer if it's something similar to Geneticist's sword training.

[NoxiousOrchid]

Adding a new section to the formula for Heal that is based on the target's max HP or VIT would be nice. With some characters reaching 50-60k hp it becomes troublesome healing them. It doesn't have to be something dramatic. Maybe something similar to (Current Formula) + (Target's mHP/200).

[Mefistofeles]

Lazy to read, but they should remove the blue gem consumed by adoramus(i hope it comes in the balance patch)

[Dukeares]

yes please... without heavy lifter Box i can carry only a round 310 gem gem only.... their damage is a laugh with the Gem cost..

[Trixdee]

Arch Bishop is VERY VERY overnerfed.

Simple ways to make them better

HP mod buff
Adoramus Buff
Judex buff
Reduce ME cast time
Lauda Agnus to cure bleed

Edited by Trixdee, 26 September 2011 - 06:17 AM.

[Mefistofeles]

Arch Bishop is VERY VERY overnerfed.

N>
HP mod
Adoramus Buff
Judex buff

kthx

its not the arch bishop itself..... its the magical atack formula

[aznversaiboi]

No offense but Abs are becoming overrated now. How do yall nerfed most classes skills but buff theirs.

[La1234]

First, go play an AB, then ask that question again. You get 1-shotted by all, your damage is laughable, and your support ability is barely one step above that >_<

[mcdhol24]

PLEASE buff judex please since the damage is really low and FS Archbishops are hard to level. I have divine cross and spiritual ring combo and I can hardly deal 2000 damage to neutral monster with judex

I think judex should be like this
level 1 - 300% matk
level 2 - 350% matk
level 3 - 400% matk
level 4 - 450% matk
level 5 - 500% matk

this buff is not very much but it can help a lot of fs AB there for grinding. You can also increase the splash cells from 3x3 to 5x5 but the MATK buff is ok enough but idk. I know adoramus and magnus exorcismus have high damage and good for leveling but they need blue gemstone and ME target is only Demon and Undead so what about the poor FS Archbishop out there and the skill point used for ME and Adoramus for FS priest should be used for some party buffs.

And Please change the animation of judex... It doesnt look really special (doesnt look like a skill of a third job) and it looks like fire pillar. Make it like more holy looking.

I hope gms out there hear my suggestion

Edited by mcdhol24, 13 October 2011 - 11:22 PM.

[Yomihime]

Maybe make Eucharistica slightly easier to get? Higher success chance of lauda skills? And better damage calculation for Judex? 3x3 splash sounds so tiny make it 5x5 (or 7x7) instead I'm a bit annoyed with the fact that Adoramus is single target and requires a bgem. I love the area lex ae and party assumptio idea, I've been thinking about these things XD

Edit: About that party assumptio idea, how about the baby ABs then? D: Because they dont have assumptio...

Edited by Yomihime, 07 December 2011 - 09:41 AM.

[WedgeAntilles]

Rennovatio should be a 5 level skill that does 5% base hp restore and goes up 1% and 30 seconds duration per level... might actually be useful for helping tanks out then, and be fun for battle AB too. The 90 second duration is just awful right now...

[mcdhol24]

Renovatio level 5 would waste skill points...
The better thing to do is to buff the level 1 itself to 5% base hp recovery instead of 3% per 5 seconds.

Also Judex should have 500% MATK at level 5 (just to say like 100% MATK per level) since at level 1 it deals 320% MATK while 400% MATK at level 5 so THERE is hardly any difference between levels 1 and 5. Even with 500% MATk it is hard to kill monsters above 130 but its ok enough just to give a little boost.......OR JUST DELETE THE USELESS CRAPPY EXPIATIO PLS.!!