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Cast Time Discussion


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#1 Heimdallr

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:57 PM

Much has been discussed about the Cast Time System of Renewal. Casting can be broken down into 4 segments.

Variable Stat Reducable time | Fixed Cast Time (Mod by skill/items) | Cast triggers | Casting "Paws"

If a specific skill is references please state the class and skill name, and what the current situation with the skill is and how you think it needs fixing.

I already know that many will state to bring back "instant cast" . We won't, it will be ignored by development so it is not a proper request for this forum.

Likely the overall system is in need of adjustment rather than specific skills, but by hearing many cases for specific skills an overall better idea can be had.
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#2 Kadelia

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:43 PM

I do not have a problem with the overall system. Old skills need to have their base cast times re-evaluated due to this sytem being in place instead of the old system. Skills hindered beyond use by forcibly long cast bars should have their base time significantly reduced or completely removed.
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#3 Sera

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 03:49 PM

I want to say Arrow Vulcan in this case, but it seems that from the internal testing done, there was nothing found to be wrong with Arrow Vulcan. I still beg to differ on this point, mostly because no one uses AV anymore. At all.

It's pretty much Double Strafe until you get Severe Rainstorm.

I mean, say what you will about what your tests found, but the skill is no longer practical for average players in PVM.
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#4 Kadelia

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:01 PM

By time you are level 150/50 with 120 base DEX, Severe Rainstorm's damage is around 5500-6000% and AV's stays 1200%. Even with a priest lexing, AV is fricken worthless. Does this skill REALLLLLLLLLY need a cast time for balance applications? NOT.

Only advantage of AV is the shield and that's a pretty silly advantage since in both scenarios you got a priest tanking for you. :)

Edited by Jaye, 01 November 2010 - 04:02 PM.

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#5 Yggdrasil

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:03 PM

Reduce the FAS cast time please. Its way too long to be usable :)
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#6 Talvis

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:06 PM

As I stated in the Ranger thread, Focused Arrow strike needs to have its fixed cast time drastically reduced. Falcon Assault could also have its Fixed cast dropped a little, but it's not as bad as FAS.
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#7 heyxsean

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:12 PM

Energy coat needs a reduction in it's fix cast time.
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#8 Zeca

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:12 PM

ganbantein.
2 gem cost, small aoe, cooldown, with a 3 sec fixed cast time? useless
1 sec fixed/ 1 sec variable imo
most wiz/hwiz skills have a stupid long cast time
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#9 Sera

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:30 PM

ganbantein.
2 gem cost, small aoe, cooldown, with a 3 sec fixed cast time? useless
1 sec fixed/ 1 sec variable imo
most wiz/hwiz skills have a stupid long cast time


It should be considered in comparison to something like... Earth Drive (Royal Guard Skill).
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#10 DrAzzy

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:48 PM

Funny - i think you'll see more requests to get rid of the still-possible instant cast than return to the old days of instant cast. Complete instant cast is very hard to make balanced...

Skills for archer classes need their cast times (particularly the fixed component) greatly reduced, to make them remotely viable. The same may be true for some other second job/trans skills that are "okay" but not amazing.
Honestly, in renewal, AV is _not that good_, it really wouldn't hurt to remove the cast time from it entirely, and just stick with the 3 second animation delay to balance it.

Good point on ganban as well - it doesn't need such a large fixed portion. If we were going by old RO system, where ganbantien was the only thing that did what it does, that'd be reasonable, but there are now several new skills that do it, and they ALL do it better than ganban, so we need to recognize that and de-nerf the cast time on ganban.

At the same time, Certain skills (particularly genetic's Cart Cannon and Mandragora Scream) need to have fixed cast times added, to prevent them from being instant-cast.

I think the overall cast-time system in renewal is great, they just balanced the skill cast times rather poorly. It almost feels like the developers didn't make realistic builds and try them out... And that they didn't revisit the 3-1 classes after designing the 3-2 classes.

Edited by DrAzzy, 01 November 2010 - 04:50 PM.

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#11 Blueness

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:50 PM

Another vote for Arrow Vulcan getting instant cast or at least the fixed cast removed, the animation delay is bad enough and many people have respecced and got rid of it!


Also, arrow repel, it is nearly worthless now.

Storm Gust, ME, Etc, it is silly to have max dex and a six second cast!

Edited by Bluedreams, 02 November 2010 - 12:24 PM.

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#12 Emichio

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 04:55 PM

Focused Arrow Strike from Sniper and Arrow Vulcan from Minstrel/Gypsy should have their casting times halved.

Focused Arrow Strike was too good before, now it does more damage but the casting time... :x

Edited by Jaibuu, 01 November 2010 - 04:56 PM.

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#13 heyxsean

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 05:45 PM

Soul exhale's cast time, why so long? Reduce the fix cast time some...
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#14 Theoretical

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 06:06 PM

I feel that only 3rd job skills should have fixed casting times. 2nd job skills should have little to no fixed casting time.
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#15 Talvis

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 08:02 PM

A relatively long cast time on an aoe like SG wouldn't be as bad if it did enough damage, but from what I've heard, magic skills aren't that great due to the new matk formula.
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#16 Pepperoncini

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:02 PM

Reduce or remove the fixed cast time on Arrow Vulcan and instead give us a skill delay. Right now there is almost no point to getting the skill. From archer through trans 99/70 minstrel, we are stuck using the same double strafe.
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#17 Doddler

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:07 PM

Also, arrow shower, it is nearly worthless now.


What? Arrow shower is quite strong now and really nice for leveling as an archer/hunter/bard/dancer.
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#18 Mwrip

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 09:21 PM

Since SG usually freezes on hit 1 or 2, it really needs a lower cast time than it has. Yes, it WAS a ridiculously overpowered skill, but the Renewal version isn't very strong, and still has an insane cast time. It needs to be kicked downwards.

Energy Coat's 5s cast time serves no purpose but to further annoy parties - no one coats in active combat. Locks are already not wanted in parties when the meleers all use instant skills to 1 shot things, but this is just making them even more deadweight. Kick this down to 1s, or even 0.5s. The mana drain per hit is already a balancing factor, it doesn't need an enormous cast bar.

Ganbantein now takes longer to cast than just about everything you want to clear with it. Needless to say, that renders it utterly useless. A counterspell has to be fast to have any value.
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#19 GuardianTK

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 10:46 PM

I hear Cart Cannon needs a fixed cast time. xD
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#20 Kyomotto

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:11 AM

Shura's Zen is ridiculously slow, should change the fix cast time to 1s instead of 1.43s
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#21 Fibrizzo

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:02 AM

Are all those only-fixed cast time skills reduced 50% by sacramenti?

I mean Energy Coat, Gambantein, Zen...
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#22 Wizard

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 05:30 AM

Be able to Stack Fixed cast time with Warlock Skill "Radius"...

We have a huge Fixed Cast time in some of our skills... at least let us stack one of our own skills with Sacrement so we can have a better cast time =)

EDIT: Why is Warlock the only class with a huge Fixed cast time when other classes don't even have Fixed Cast Time? I thou Instant Cast was impossible in Renewal... but I guess I was wrong...

Edited by Wizard, 02 November 2010 - 05:47 AM.

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#23 Tolrin

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 09:01 AM

Focused Arrow Strike from Sniper and Arrow Vulcan from Minstrel/Gypsy should have their casting times halved.

Focused Arrow Strike was too good before, now it does more damage but the casting time... :x


I support Focused Arrow Strike having it's fixed cast time re-evaluated. The skill functions far differently in renewal and really hurts the options of snipers as a whole class.

I believe that the Mage quest skill Energy Coat could have it's cast time reevaluated, it's a nuisance having it take 5 seconds to cast, and reducing that to say, 3 or 4 second fixed cast would not particularly effect the balance of the skill.

I believe that the Warlock skill Radius needs to be adjusted, specifically that it (unlike other fixed cast time effects) should be allowed to add to other fixed cast time reductions since it is a passive skill that either invalidates cast time reduction on gears, or is invalidated by the cast time reduction of sacrament.

I have heard many players complain that geneticist skills, Cart Cannon, Howling of Mandragora, Hell's Plant, and others should have some portion of fixed cast time. I neither support nor disagree with this, but I thought it would be worth while mentioning.

Edit@Fibrizzo: Yes, sacrament reduces all fixed cast time by 50%, or in the case of warlocks from 80% total to 50% total since it does not interact with radius at all.

Edited by Tolrin, 02 November 2010 - 09:04 AM.

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#24 Lancer

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:05 PM

Testing a Sura with 120 dex the Zen can was indeed very slow. I believe i read somewhere that the GMs did/was doing a fix to the cast time, has it already been done?
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#25 Blueness

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Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:23 PM

What? Arrow shower is quite strong now and really nice for leveling as an archer/hunter/bard/dancer.


Ooops, I meant arrow repel, lol
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