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#1 Njoror

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:18 AM

Hello.

 

This topic will be used to collect Priest Balance issues.

 

Please use the form below when submitting balance issues.

 

Remember, the more detail, image, or video that can be provided, the quicker these issues can be addressed.

 

Character Name:

Balance Type: (Example: Skill, Stats, etc)

Skill (If Applicable):

Balance Description:

Video/Image Link (If applicable):


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#2 yamiscott

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 01:06 AM

Character Name: FieldMedic

Balance Type: Skill/SP usage, Balance

Skill (If Applicable): Aqua Benedicta/Heal skills (all)

Balance Description:

Currently this skill generates 30% of your total SP. Don't get me wrong, I love this, but I don't think other classes know about it. When playing as a damage priest, you chew through SP and therefore you have to spam this move and pot up. that's fine. When playing holy, you never go below 75% SP.

 

I feel that holy skills need to use more SP. That or AB needs to generate less SP, but I wouldn't go with the latter.

 


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#3 138130526004516927

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:24 PM

 

Character Name: FieldMedic

Balance Type: Skill/SP usage, Balance

Skill (If Applicable): Aqua Benedicta/Heal skills (all)

Balance Description:

Currently this skill generates 30% of your total SP. Don't get me wrong, I love this, but I don't think other classes know about it. When playing as a damage priest, you chew through SP and therefore you have to spam this move and pot up. that's fine. When playing holy, you never go below 75% SP.

 

I feel that holy skills need to use more SP. That or AB needs to generate less SP, but I wouldn't go with the latter.

 

 

What is your skill point configuration for your heal skills? Highness Heal(Lvl 6) can eat up SP pretty fast if you are the party's healer and also luring with Judex(Lvl 3) in a condor grind as a hybird priest.

 

I think it depends on the situation. If you rarely take threat as a full support healer you will continue to recover SP as others are fighting. And if you compare that situation with one in which you are also attacking and being aggroed, you won't be recovering SP and the imbalance will appear to favor the full support.


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#4 KayleePepper

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 06:09 AM

 

Character Name: FieldMedic

Balance Type: Skill/SP usage, Balance

Skill (If Applicable): Aqua Benedicta/Heal skills (all)

Balance Description:

Currently this skill generates 30% of your total SP. Don't get me wrong, I love this, but I don't think other classes know about it. When playing as a damage priest, you chew through SP and therefore you have to spam this move and pot up. that's fine. When playing holy, you never go below 75% SP.

 

I feel that holy skills need to use more SP. That or AB needs to generate less SP, but I wouldn't go with the latter.

 

 

30% of total SP? Aqua only recovers 15%.


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#5 Marfin

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 01:39 AM

i think there is no need to bring back the old animation of Genesis Ray , because the new animation is good and no good or advantages bring back the old Genesis ray , back to old Genesis ray = Downgrade


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#6 bluezak

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:21 PM

Character Name:bluezak

Balance Type: (stats and penetration damage)
Skill (If Applicable):
Balance Description:3 +1osiris card [epic]
 
I used 1 +1osiris card[epic] before the damage and penetration was good but when 1 used two more +1osiris card[epic] the damage is still the same and I noticed the penetration stat only shows 69 when it was suppose to 23x3 + 2x3 for the three cards which total of 75
 
bluezakpriest.jpg
 
 
Regards;
bluezak

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#7 SolM77186

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 06:11 AM

Character Name: Solemia

Balance Type: (Skill)

Skill (If Applicable):

Balance Description: Skill about Heal

 

As i can see, lot of players are complaining about our heal skills, our DOT and our DPS, but you have to understand that it's so annoying to get complains every time "hey sole what can you do to make priests less OP" or "Oh sole you're strong cause priests are OP" or "I don't duel you Sole cause i don't duel priests anymore cause heal+dot+dps"

 

Then i start this comment to say "Please what you want for priests now ? No heal, no dps, no defense ? you wan us naked ? (this comment isn't personnal to one player, no it's about every complains, then i won't give name)

 

then if you didn't read my post VCR you can read it there (18 pages)

 https://docs.google....HUUE/edit?pli=1

 

Then if you're lazy to read it, i can provide you some details, i want our crit about our "Higness Heal" Reduced, i don't want anymore the "30K hot" and "150K heal" when i do the crit there my suggestion it's to put the double of the original HH, you can see it in my post but i want exemple "30K+7K hot" normal, then the crit will be "60K+14Khot" it seems to be fair.

 

 

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#8 Greven79

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:40 AM

Then if you're lazy to read it, i can provide you some details, i want our crit about our "Higness Heal" Reduced, i don't want anymore the "30K hot" and "150K heal" when i do the crit there my suggestion it's to put the double of the original HH, you can see it in my post but i want exemple "30K+7K hot" normal, then the crit will be "60K+14Khot" it seems to be fair.

 

A 60k crit is a waste, because the average HP total is much lower. So you produce an over-kill... ehm... over-heal. A 14k heal over time would restore more than 33% of your HP every other second. And even a single use of a 30k+7k 'normal hit' would restore 100% of the HPs for most players.

 

So unless a player can one-shot such a priest, he would have to deal more than 12k damage every other second (in case of a normal HH) or more than 19k damage in case of a crit. HH, just to scratch him (both values added a 5k Renovatio).

 

Assuming 250% damage for a 1sec skill (Double Strike, Rage Smash, etc.) and a 50% defense rate for the Priest (easy to calculate), such an attacker would require a physical skill effect (PSE) of 4.8k in case of a normal hit to negate the heal over time. (A PSE of 7.6k in case of a crit).

 

Let's be generous and say that you can substract 2.5k PSE for the weapon, you still have to have 2k PSE deriving from STR. With the typical 2ATK/STR and the generous 10ATK/PSE, you don't even have to bother fighting if you have less than 10k STR. (or 25k STR in case of a crit).

 

And because the DoT damage can be easily derived from this Highness Heal as well, every player can calculate his average life expectancy against such a 'fair' priest... just to see what Solemia means when he talks about 'fairness' or 'balance'.

 

To foretell to the usual 'doesn't know the class' sillyness, just try at least once to prove me wrong on any statement or any calculation I made in this reply!


Edited by Greven79, 06 August 2014 - 10:52 AM.

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#9 SolM77186

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:56 AM

i respect your idea but i did the heal calcul about what i said in my report, my heal is also about dps and what i want then if i change the heal, i'll need to change all DPS ideas. but i'm sure you understood it.

 

"By the way" 60K is an over heal for BM with 80K hp, ?and if in futur the stat will change about HP tank, if the tank get more HP and less dps ? you think devs will change again our heal rate ? think in futur and not only about present day.


Edited by SolM77186, 05 August 2014 - 05:57 AM.

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#10 Greven79

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:47 AM

"By the way" 60K is an over heal for BM with 80K hp, ?and if in futur the stat will change about HP tank, if the tank get more HP and less dps ? you think devs will change again our heal rate ? think in futur and not only about present day.

 

Are you kidding me or didn't you get the "restore more than 33% of your HP" or "100% of the HPs for most players" part?

 

I am not part of any kind of discussion with the devs, so I know nothing about increasing the HP values for tanking classes. But even with such a change, it would only affect 4 out of 12 classes (33%), so the majority of all classes (66%) stays unaffected. If it only affects certain skill choices (f.e. only those with Aura Armor), even more would stay unaffected.

 

So my calculation stays valid for more than 66% of all classes and you have the nerf to ask if the devs should change the heal ratio back later.

 

A Highness Heal HoT combined with a Renovatio restore 30~50% of a Priest's total HPs every 2sec now and even after a HP-for-tanks fix. So no class that can either one-shot such a priest or hit for more than 15~25% of your HPs per second can't even overcome the HoT. And this excludes things like further heals, healing pots/soups, missed attacks, melee vs. ranged issues or stunning the attacker.

 

So we're in a state where the elected VCR officially states that such a healing value is just 'fair'.

 

And to refer to your report: The suggested 'fix' for the DoTs (extracted values from a 30k Highness Heal):

 

Credo lvl 5 = 195% every 2sec (~4.4k damage)

Oratio lvl 5 = 200% every 2sec (~4.5k damage)

Adoramus lvl 5 = 219% every 2sec (~4.9k damage)

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Total: 614% damage every 2sec (~13.8k damage)

 

Well, almost 14k every 2sec... that's a < 6sec doom-counter for most classes (< 10sec for a 80k BM). Makes me wonder how much the devs want to raise the HPs for tanks to make a difference, because a priest doesn't really need a perma-stun Just start at 30m distance, stun once, cast your DoTs followed by an Increased Agility and run for 6sec. Done! Say welcome to 'fairness' and 'balance'.

 

BTW: Extracting the damage for a non-crit. Ray of Genesis, it would deal 44k damage before armor is applied, so ~11k against classes with a 75% defense rate. That's the damage any of these DoT does every ~5 seconds, so let's reduce the cooldown of Genesis Ray to 3sec and remove any other non-DoT skill.... they are worthless no matter what.


Edited by Greven79, 06 August 2014 - 10:58 AM.

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#11 SolM77186

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:59 AM

Ok i'm done as i can see i'm talking with some guy too and even when they add ideas you're still against, i'm done don't talk to me anymore and you know what ? present you as VCR too.

 

And i think you didn't read my VCR post. but i can agree that 18 pages it's a bit annoying.

https://docs.google....GxRanpHUUE/edit

 

You'll figure it out why i did propose those changes about heal. cause i don't change only heal but DPS/dot/stun.

 

Have fun. you're the best, you know everything.

 

(But yeah dude as i can see only your ideas are good then for the next VCR session, go to amke your own ) it will be fine cause you're listening only you and no other priests, my post is based on Suggestion from each class and about mine too, 


Edited by SolM77186, 05 August 2014 - 07:06 AM.

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#12 Greven79

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 08:49 AM

Ok i'm done as i can see i'm talking with some guy too and even when they add ideas you're still against, i'm done don't talk to me anymore and you know what ? present you as VCR too.

 

Na! You didn't even try to proves me wrong, yet you still can't accept the concequences from my statements. I never attacked anyone making a suggestion, but I put facts behind it and sometimes I recommend to think of the concequences.

 

Instead of making statements, I'll try to formulate questions:

 

Iif someone states that a '30k HH' is just fine (you weren't the first/only one), my response is:

"1: Do you really think that healing 80%+ of your total HPs every 6sec is fair?" (excludes the HoT).

Still waiting for an answer....

 

Formulating questions from the statements of my last replies:

"2: How much damage should another class deal to compensate a HH?"

and

"3: Wouldn't it make significant difference whether a Priest gets hit for 30k damage, outhealing it without problems and other classes that cannot heal that much? How can/do the other classes compensate that?"

 

I never attacked your DoT suggestion. But for me, the damage is by far too high. As a question:

"4: What should be the average duration of a duel? Less than 6sec, 10sec or maybe 30sec or more?"

(The answer also limits the average percentual damage a class should deal.)

 

Together, the three DoTs deal 619% damage every 2sec, that means 305% damage per second. You can cast them on the run and only need to recast them every 20sec. Question:

"5: Let's assume those DoTs would be affected by armor like any other attack, isn't 305% still too high, knowing that a normal attack of other classes deals 250% at best? What does the Priest do between the recasts? Wouldn't any further skill use sky-rocket his DPS and inbalance him?"

 

Currently DoTs can be up to 40% as powerful as standard attacks (Credo 224%, HL 548%). A more general question:

"6: So even if the DoTs were affected by armor like normal attacks would you ever choose a passive skill that raises your ATK by 10~30% over such a DoT skill? If not, doesn't that force you into certain skill builds choosing the DoTs no matter what?"

 

You see, simple questions and no answers. Instead I usually get:

  • "Don't touch the Grimtooth heals, I like them the way they are."
  • "BT isn't overpowered. We need it and we have to 'waste' stats in INT instead"
  • "The mermaid of the Crecentia is balanced and it doesn't even matter... it's PvE only!"
  • "Rage Smash deals less damage than a Fury Strike (hence the cooldown) - I don't care!"
  • "We need inbalance <X> because class <Y> has inbalance <Z>"
  • "You don't know <enter any class here>!"
  • "You don't even play <enter any class here>!"
  • "You're always on 'disagree' mode."

What should I do?

 

Should I hope that there will be a reasonable raid content, if a Soulmaker can put a 12k Cure and the Priest a 5k Renovatio plus a 7k HH HoT on the main tank? And I could add a Sorcerer's LoR and a few Willow Workers into the count. That's easily more than 30k every 2sec. And this doesn't include pots and other stuff. So how much damage should a raid boss deal to outdo this HoT?

 

And this all starts here! In your report you wrote: "Then you can see with aspertio+HH without crit i heal 32K and 6.4K Hot, for me it's not op it's really balanced."

 

"7: Balanced to what? Potless duels? Outhealing G-Fists?"

 

 

And i think you didn't read my VCR post. but i can agree that 18 pages it's a bit annoying.

 

I read the whole report (as well as any other report). I'm not deterred by 18 pages. Leaving 'a few' spelling mistakes aside, your report is well structured. However, I don't see a huge intersection between our opinions. A noteable exception is your Aspersio+Judex statement.

 

present you as VCR too.

 

I am focussed on the overall balance of the game, not on a single class. Personally, I don't like the VCR system and I doubt it will bring any balance to the game.

 

"8: Haven't the old VCRs tested the last changes?"

 

Except for the report made by GottaLongSword, none of the other reports mentioned the overall game issues. Most of the reports only contain: "Because we can be one-shotted by <X>, we need buff <Y> or immunity against <Z>" or "Because other classes deal too much damage, we need more and better heal skills or have to keep our inbalanced heal skills".

 

"9: Have you ever thought about mentioning a nerf to the overall damage & heals instead of demanding more buffs for the priest?"

 

"10: Have you read the other reports?"

 

So even my strategy what to discuss or how to make these reports & VCR meetings would be totally different. And since there are too many players stating that their opinion is shared by the majority of players, taking up the role of a VCR would definitely be the wrong idea for me.


Edited by Greven79, 06 August 2014 - 11:12 AM.

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#13 SolM77186

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:49 AM

IT's ok dude you're the best at all, i can't even have a chance to meet you and to beat you, i've found my master, now please don't reply it...you're so annoying. 

 

You can even take my VCR role, you have definitely the best priest tactic ever. and of course you know the priest perfectly better than us of course we're big -_- compared to you.

 

(By the way i saw you criticize every VCR post) then as i can see you're not only a master priest but you're also the best ever player about every class, Good job.

 

 

 

IGN:Solemia (I'm still learning tactic from the master priest "Greven79")


Edited by SolM77186, 05 August 2014 - 09:52 AM.

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#14 Kirhito

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:59 AM

As far as i know VCR should take peoples suggestions and feedbacks to also get the idea of how to fix the imbalances in game.
Im not on anyones side but giving him that kind of attitude just because you both have different reports and ideas is pretty much childish.
Its like " I have my own idea and i dont like yours so it cant happen. "
Even though theyre wrong or not you should always take players feedback seriously. It is what VCRs should do. Just sayin.
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#15 SolM77186

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 10:03 AM

Dude, to be honnest, look my report. i asked i think more than 60 priests... low level and high level to get the best idea and changes that i can. and this -_- dude "greven" don't respect my work then it's allright i don't care about him, he is so arrogant he think  his ideas = better than all, it's ok i'm done with him (i'm not mad at you no worries) only to Greven.

 

By the way look at all VCR post, you'll see Greven comment= "your VCR psot=so bad/bull-_-" etc...i think this guy is just a troller. that's why he is anonym he don't respect himself...so how you want that he respect us.


Edited by SolM77186, 05 August 2014 - 10:08 AM.

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#16 Greven79

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:08 PM

Dude, to be honnest, look my report. i asked i think more than 60 priests... low level and high level to get the best idea and changes that i can. and this -_- dude "greven" don't respect my work then it's allright i don't care about him, he is so arrogant he think  his ideas = better than all, it's ok i'm done with him (i'm not mad at you no worries) only to Greven.

 

By the way look at all VCR post, you'll see Greven comment= "your VCR psot=so bad/bull-_-" etc...i think this guy is just a troller. that's why he is anonym he don't respect himself...so how you want that he respect us.

 

No Solemia.

 

The difference is that you haven't come up with at least a single reason behind your statements. Even your report doesn't give any.

 

 

with my highness heal i can see 35K heal +7K hot and it's not op, i'll talk also about the crit, cause if the simple heal is fair the critic are not.

 

What's your point to prove that 35k is fine? The same way, another Priest could state that 150k is just fine. All we got later in your report "for me (Solemia) it's not op it's really balanced." Now, if that doesn't prove it's balanced...  cause your word weights more than others, right?

 

« pffff your dot ignore the defense » and i agree then my seconc choice will decrease a bit Credo and Oratio and re-up Adoramus but the most important = i want the dot won't ignore the defense anymore.

 

Beside sharing your personal opinion with us, there is not a single reason behind the change. Just to give you a hint... these are answers to questions with "Why" or "How"... like: "5b: How would this make the DoTs balanced?" (see question 5 from my last reply). And I haven't even started srutinizing  your 'reasons' about a DoT vs. HoT balance on that part.

 

i think « 10% defense more per gear will be good » and not unfair

 

"11: How did you come up with a 10% change? Rolled some dices?"
 

said i want to nerf the bible to re-up the mace with fair stat cause at the moment priest got a weak mace then our honing on mace is weak too, then it's not fair.

 

"12: What makes you think that lower base stats result in a lower honing? Why wouldn't you expect the item level and the star-grade to be the key instead? Have you tried not to use a 2-star mace, but a 3 or even 4-star mace?"

 

"13: Since you'll end up honing ALL your gear, how does shifting stats between a bible and a mace make any difference?"

 

On contrast I answered your statement directly, put some facts behind my words, examined the concequences and formulated 10 simple questions... adding 3 more right now. You did nothing like that! Just the usual insults.

 

And even in your report, you couldn't stop to add your opinion and put it over all others:

 

Then what is my second choice ? And why i don't want to take the first choice ?

...

MY CHANGE

..

MY CHOICE
*Put back the old Sacramento

 

Just so much about a 'consensus', ignorance and a VCR gathering the voices of other Priests. Call me arrogant, but it's not that we have different opinions, discussed our points and couldn't find a compromise (like Kirhito seems to imply). You just made nothing but empty phrases.

 

So I think you have no reasons. But at least, you can make childish phrases like "yea, we know you're the best at all" that I used the last time when I was like 10 years old.


Edited by Greven79, 05 August 2014 - 12:51 PM.

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#17 SolM77186

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:44 PM

It's ok Greven i told you,you're my master, what cna i do for you ? My ears are up... i found my master here. thank you Greven.


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#18 Greven79

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 01:58 PM

 what cna i do for you ? My ears are up...

 

just answer at least one of my questions
 


Edited by Greven79, 06 August 2014 - 11:16 AM.

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#19 SolM77186

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:00 PM

But you know the answer... you're allright why you want my mind about ? your mind and ideas are the best ever, you don't need somethign from me but ME i need you as teacher.

 

Ok dude seriously, assum yourself, show up your identity, and come back to talk to us. 


Edited by SolM77186, 05 August 2014 - 02:06 PM.

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#20 Exvee

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:14 PM

Lol I already said it's Meditation and Aspersio for anything to blame that's what makes critical Heal too high and forced critical from Aspersio and causing many problems like agro...

 

Just two words, why we stuck with thousand words?


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#21 Telovi

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:34 PM

Because he is looking at the bigger picture, not just those and these skills. And he wasn't arguing about the source of Priest absurd healing power. That guy only gets under people skins when he founds their opinion biased. I'm in disagreement with a lot of his opinion in other class threads, but I saw his points. As annoying as it seems, his wall-of-text criticism is the only thing making this fanfiction sharing section looks more like a class discussion section.


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#22 SolM77186

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 11:59 PM

I'm just done with greven, i saw all his post and even when VCR aresaying something he is against. and you will see that he gonna say "no no no when he'll see this mess". but i talked about this Greven with other VCR too.


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#23 Greven79

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:35 AM

Lol I already said it's Meditation and Aspersio for anything to blame that's what makes critical Heal too high and forced critical from Aspersio and causing many problems like agro...

 

Just two words, why we stuck with thousand words?

 

So just to quote myself:

 

F.e. if someone states that a '30k HH' is just fine (you weren't the only one), my response is:

"1: Do you really think that healing 80%+ of your total HPs every 6sec is fair?" (excludes the HoT).

 

So it's the non-crit highness heal I bring into question. So feel free to show that you're more mature than Solemia and answer this simple question.


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#24 zJuliusx

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:48 AM

So just to quote myself:

 

 

So it's the non-crit highness heal I bring into question. So feel free to show that you're more mature than Solemia and answer this simple question.

I don't think you play priest, with low defense the heals are needed. 


Edited by zJuliusx, 06 August 2014 - 01:50 AM.

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#25 Greven79

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 01:59 AM

I don't think you play priest, with low defense the heals are needed. 

 

I didn't ask about a personal opinion, whether Priests like their heals or if you think they need them. I would like to hear why a 30k heal is 'just balanced'.

 

A low defense might be a start for a discussion, but this tells nothing about the 'needed' value for a Highness Heal... it could be 10k, 40k or 200k. All these values would fulfill this criteria. So it would be even valid to demand a 200% boost to healing skills.

 

So I just repeat myself:

"1-revised: Do you really think that a Highness Heal that recovers 30k and therefore healing 80%+ of your total HPs every 6sec is fair?"


Edited by Greven79, 06 August 2014 - 11:18 AM.

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