359 replies to this topic

[jerremy]

Dual raider - ok not really surprising after like 6-7 years, this dual raider still suck like usual, katar raider gained 3 status from this update (Adrenaline rush, critical accordance and vicious accordance), but dual raider only gets two, one is fine (weakened armor), the other one (wounded) does not even work on PvM because monster don't heal. This whole dual raider thing is still a joke, because a full buffed katar raider has like 5K dodge, while a dual raider has only 4K dodge full buffed, you need that evasive guard to get it to 5K dodge. As I and many have pointed out that this class is supposed to be more skill spamming instead of melee like a katar, therefore their skill damage / accuracy / dodge are supposed to be higher than that of a katar raider, but this doesn't seem like the case, skill damage is very disappointing for this class, the accuracy passive is really bad, where 20SP only gives you like 200 more acc? dodge which I've mentioned before, you need to use evasive guard to be on par with what a katar raider has. We still need to have some adjustment for their defense passive, accuracy passive, didn't I propose a defense based on STR passive as well as accuracy based on DEX passive before?

Regarding the wounded status, it is a battle between dual raider's circle break (wounded) vs. cleric's party integrity (healing touch), in order to stop war from grouping up like a stalemate, the earlier one wounded status is supposed to out-class the party integrity by a little. But right now, wounded gives 8% healing deduction for every 12 seconds and healing touch gives 5% healing bonus for every 18 seconds. In other words, wounded gives 0.6666% per sec healing reduction and healing touch gives 0.27777% per sec healing bonus, so there is nothing wrong with the calculation. I think this class lacks accuracy, skill power, dodge, and skill casting speed is still very slow, not to mention katar raider has 3 emergency button (stealth, unique stealth, cloaking), while dual raider only got one (unique stealth)

While I agree to some extent, I don't think it's to the point of 'sucking like usual'. I've been doing very well with my dual raider in CD so far. But yes, when pitted against the katar raider, the dual raider gets blown out of the water in terms of fighting strength. Although actually, dual raiders can get about 6k dodge on evasive guard. Decent amount of defense too (although you'll probably still die if attacked by some accuracy based classes). If anything, I feel the skill powers of some skills (bloody assault, combo strike, triple attack, etc. come to mind) need a bit of a boost, as improving casting speed might mess up the animations. Also, stealth and unique stealth share CD (I think, actually not sure about this one), so katar raider has only two emergency buttons. But aside from that, I like the idea of the STR and DEX based passives, and they could definitely use a bit more skill power and perhaps slightly faster casting speed.

 

 

Oh also, Champ, to counter a katar raider, use a dual raider. Strong movement speed down disables their ability to escape and movement speed advantage (which by the way is only 250-300mspd and can be negated by slows, they're not that much faster), accuracy down drops their accuracy so low they'll have trouble hitting a lot of classes, not only hawkers. Strong attack speed down makes them not hit as much, negating part of their damage (100% aspd down sure works wonders on normal attack based classes). Also, if you get the accuracy passives, a decent bit of con, and get a slight bit of accu in equipment, you won't have that much trouble against their dodge.

Edited by jerremy, 22 March 2014 - 06:36 PM.

[DestinyDeoxys]

While I agree to some extent, I don't think it's to the point of 'sucking like usual'. I've been doing very well with my dual raider in CD so far. But yes, when pitted against the katar raider, the dual raider gets blown out of the water in terms of fighting strength. Although actually, dual raiders can get about 6k dodge on evasive guard. Decent amount of defense too (although you'll probably still die if attacked by some accuracy based classes). If anything, I feel the skill powers of some skills (bloody assault, combo strike, triple attack, etc. come to mind) need a bit of a boost, as improving casting speed might mess up the animations. Also, stealth and unique stealth share CD (I think, actually not sure about this one), so katar raider has only two emergency buttons. But aside from that, I like the idea of the STR and DEX based passives, and they could definitely use a bit more skill power and perhaps slightly faster casting speed.

 

 

 

If you don't know if stealth / unique stealth / camouflage share cool down or not, you are not playing enough katar raider lol, 3 of these do not share cool down, it is just you cannot use stealth again if you are in unique stealth or vice versa. Katar is better than dual swords by far, it's not even comparable.

[Phish]

I've started playing a bit again and want to post my opinion on some of the recent changes, but I still need to educate myself on how all classes behave as a whole to give more accurate feedback. From what I've played so far I do feel like Katar Raiders are a little too powerful but still need to play them from their own point of view. Someone sell me a Fury and Wired skillbook.

[SlowBob]

Erm phish, i'm not sure on which server you are playing, if it's leonis feel free to send me a pm with your char-name

[Feuer]

If you don't know if stealth / unique stealth / camouflage share cool down or not, you are not playing enough katar raider lol, 3 of these do not share cool down, it is just you cannot use stealth again if you are in unique stealth or vice versa. Katar is better than dual swords by far, it's not even comparable.

 

Stealth, Unique Stealth, Cloak* Do not share cooldowns.

Camo is for scouts.

[borgahutt]

Bow gets 1 Stun, only. It seems only natural it would be a ranged attack. Crossbow gets the same consideration, but the adoption of the shield and skills gives them the same access to that of the soldier they took it from. Melee range. And those "other ranged classes" have a number of other mechanics within their class design at their disposal. The image of who has available stuns, was just to give that narrow comparison to who has what available to them, in regards to stuns. If you are going to target the issue of stuns as an effect only, your scope of consideration behind what a class can or can't do needs to widen and take in to account the rest of the classes' design.
 
I'm not sure what you may be experiencing, but when I was just testing, I had enough time to anticipate and react in many situations. The times I didn't know how to react, were the moments I fell prey to my attacker. And "3 hitting melee" isn't possible within the Game Arena. Even in the most extreme cases on what we know mechanically, it doesn't match up to the amount of HP a player would have at 230, in any class. So either, multiple attacks are stacking making it appear like you're being hit harder than you are per hit, or you are seeing skills being used.

The update gives everyone a need to adjust. It may just be that for you and many others, needing to adjust to the new strategies and pace of combat from the classes that were changed. If you have more specific experiences you would care to share, please do. And the more details you can provide, the better it is for us to identify if there is an outpoint or not.
 
We've gotten the report, however have been unable to reproduce it. But by the description of the event, it is client sided, so only the one who sees them running at high speeds is the player themselves. So it doesn't actually have an impact to outcome of game play, but we still are aware that it is an inconvenience. As soon as we're able to figure that one out, you can be sure it will be addressed.

 

yeah i just can say many times on my arti for example a champ as melee with beserk at 6k and thats easy 3 hits. i guess they may be full ap but still seems very high. but yeah i totally understand that everyone would have to adapt to it but i just dont feel you get enough time with being hit so hard , aswell if there is multiple people on you when before you could counter it with something to get away from them. but yes; i have had to adjust many of my chars builds and gears etc to compensate for this which is not a problem

[jerremy]

If you don't know if stealth / unique stealth / camouflage share cool down or not, you are not playing enough katar raider lol, 3 of these do not share cool down, it is just you cannot use stealth again if you are in unique stealth or vice versa. Katar is better than dual swords by far, it's not even comparable.

Ah, well I never paid attention to it, as I never used a katar raider (I think it's a lame class and dislike using it). But dual swords are also pretty strong from what I've noticed myself. But maybe that's just me.

[ChickenBucket]

I've started playing a bit again and want to post my opinion on some of the recent changes, but I still need to educate myself on how all classes behave as a whole to give more accurate feedback. From what I've played so far I do feel like Katar Raiders are a little too powerful but still need to play them from their own point of view. Someone sell me a Fury and Wired skillbook.

 

Msg  me ingame Nub!

[Phish]

Sup Chickenhead, haven't seen you in game but I did get the passives.

 

Ok so it might be a little late since we are getting a patch tomorrow, but Katar Raiders are pretty dominate in pvp/Game Arena now, not that that is a surprise. 

 

The first in foremost is that there is a huge emphasis on their melee ability, so much that it obsoletes investing into their skills for the most part. Lets start with the new stackable passive buffs.

 

Adrenaline Rush, Vicious Accordance, Critical Accordance: all are strong stackable buffs that a raider has a chance to receive every time they attack. When you take the class with the highest attack speed, it doesn't take long to max out the counter on these buffs when hitting something, giving them a big boost in offense and defense. 

 

Attack speed, Movement speed, Critical Damage and a debuff of Critical on the opponent. Every time they attack they get exponentially more powerful in a fight. By reducing the opponents critical stat, it also makes them less likely to be hit by criticals, and increasing their movement speed makes them able to flee easily if needed. Not to mention this class already has up to 3 escape buttons via stealth, unique stealth and cloak. Almost reminds me of 2010 champs; you can't take them on 1v1 and can't catch them if they try to run away either.

 

 

One thing I like to point out about stackable buffs is how much stronger they are on raiders than other classes. Lets look at Mages for example. Mages have 4 new stackable buffs in the form of Water, Fire, Wind, and Sorcery mastery. If you invest the points, you can obtain all of these skills, however each mastery can only potentially activate when casting a skill of the appropriate element; meaning you can only activate one stackable buff at a time. 

 

Raiders on the other hand, can activate all 3 of them simultaneously and much faster too because they can do so through meleeing. Granted, the stackable buffs for Raiders only last up to 10 seconds if you stop attacking, but it's a small price to pay for how much power you can gain so quickly with them. 

 

 

Granted Katar Raiders still have trouble against 'The Pit of Hell' (When clerics and aoe classes huddle around the crystal) They are very over centralizing in wars, being the most played class at the moment. They are supposed to be good in 1v1 scenario's but with a little toning down they still will be, just not so dominating as they are now.

 

I want to say, maybe make one of the passives (critical accordance) only activate when stealthed or cloaked, (with a higher success or debuff amount). Or maybe have one activate when using skills. It's just right now their meleeing is a little too potent and spreading out these passives on some way will help 'normalize' them so to speak.

 

But anyway, we are getting a patch tomorrow so who knows what will happen.

 

 

 

[ChampPower]

Sup Chickenhead, haven't seen you in game but I did get the passives.

Ok so it might be a little late since we are getting a patch tomorrow, but Katar Raiders are pretty dominate in pvp/Game Arena now, not that that is a surprise.

The first in foremost is that there is a huge emphasis on their melee ability, so much that it obsoletes investing into their skills for the most part. Lets start with the new stackable passive buffs.

Adrenaline Rush, Vicious Accordance, Critical Accordance: all are strong stackable buffs that a raider has a chance to receive every time they attack. When you take the class with the highest attack speed, it doesn't take long to max out the counter on these buffs when hitting something, giving them a big boost in offense and defense.

Attack speed, Movement speed, Critical Damage and a debuff of Critical on the opponent. Every time they attack they get exponentially more powerful in a fight. By reducing the opponents critical stat, it also makes them less likely to be hit by criticals, and increasing their movement speed makes them able to flee easily if needed. Not to mention this class already has up to 3 escape buttons via stealth, unique stealth and cloak. Almost reminds me of 2010 champs; you can't take them on 1v1 and can't catch them if they try to run away either.


One thing I like to point out about stackable buffs is how much stronger they are on raiders than other classes. Lets look at Mages for example. Mages have 4 new stackable buffs in the form of Water, Fire, Wind, and Sorcery mastery. If you invest the points, you can obtain all of these skills, however each mastery can only potentially activate when casting a skill of the appropriate element; meaning you can only activate one stackable buff at a time.

Raiders on the other hand, can activate all 3 of them simultaneously and much faster too because they can do so through meleeing. Granted, the stackable buffs for Raiders only last up to 10 seconds if you stop attacking, but it's a small price to pay for how much power you can gain so quickly with them.


Granted Katar Raiders still have trouble against 'The Pit of Hell' (When clerics and aoe classes huddle around the crystal) They are very over centralizing in wars, being the most played class at the moment. They are supposed to be good in 1v1 scenario's but with a little toning down they still will be, just not so dominating as they are now.

I want to say, maybe make one of the passives (critical accordance) only activate when stealthed or cloaked, (with a higher success or debuff amount). Or maybe have one activate when using skills. It's just right now their meleeing is a little too potent and spreading out these passives on some way will help 'normalize' them so to speak.

But anyway, we are getting a patch tomorrow so who knows what will happen.

Exactly, I do not get the ideas why someone want to make their class so overpower to make up for their lack of skill. I like the idea of fairness, which gives everyone a fair change to kill each other. With the current system, building a overpower katar raider is rather easy. All you have to do are getting the best attack speed set, take cloak and stealth skills, and take all passive skills , and everything else will fall in line for you. When raider attack, their attack speed and stack effect will take over the entire fight. No player's skill is necessary.

Edited by ChampPower, 24 March 2014 - 11:17 PM.