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Rogue Issues/Suggestions/Fixes


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#1 Strobe

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:00 AM

Hi guys, This thread is for making the life of your VCR (me) easier as we fix our class and give it balance to other classes as well as PVE issues.

You can post all your issues, suggestions, and probable fixes here, as well as your IGN so we can talk in-game and test things.

I have been given a template in giving my weekly reports and I need to prioritize the popular suggestions from our community.

You can also post on the other threads, but posting it here would make things easier.

 

Please follow this format and example:

 

IGN: Strobes

 

1. Issue: Rogues can't run for sh*t

    Suggestion: Give us speed boost

    Fixes: Put speedboost everytime i use double attack

 

2. Issue: Rogues are ugly

    Suggestion: Give us better gears! developers cant design for sh*t

    Fixes: 1.Go hire a better designer or 2.Hire me instead or 3.Idk

 

3. Issue: Double attack too weak

    Suggestion: Make us strongK

    Fixes: Make double attack hit like rage strike all day

 

Please give reasonable and intelligent suggestions unlike my examples up there.

And take note on the NUMBERING.

The very first issue you posted are going to be prioritized and will be considered as one of the popular suggestions from the community.

 

By posting here, you are helping your lonely VCR make his job a lot easier and would prevent him from browsing all the threads over and over and get him confused and most probably die in the process.

 

Thanks guys!


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#2 Leinzan

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:10 AM

Its a bit redundant but oh well

 

About fixing priorities:

Spoiler

 

 

Suggestions for Combo Point generation

Spoiler

 

Suggestion for Single Target Damage Improving

Spoiler

 

If a Rogue can't chase, how about a Rogue's target can't run?

Spoiler

 

Suggestions for Unstable Dopping and Adrenaline Rush

Spoiler

 

If I feel oxygen reaches my head again I might put some more :/


Edited by Leinzan, 19 March 2014 - 10:11 AM.

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#3 Strobe

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:42 AM

IGN: Strobes

 

1. Hit/Dodge Formula - Don't know how this works coz I'm not a game designer but it's the most popular issue in all of RO2

 

2. Class Bonus - DPS = ATK POWER/HIT/CRIT

                             TANK=PARRY/DODGE/DEFENSE

                             ROGUE=DPS

                             Therefore ROGUE= HIT/CRIT/ATK POWER

    

     Fixes: Change it to a complimenting class bonus. Leaning towards HIT

 

3. Combo Point Generation - Got this from Quintto and Leinzan. Dropped all my suggestions about increasing base damages of several skills and instead, work on generating more combo points

    

 Fixes: 1. make combo training 20% and mastery 15% or proc more often

            2. lower the requirements of combo points needed to use the full potential of our skills.

 

4. Rogue Weapons - Our weapons have lower stats than Assassins. I don't get why it had to be like that

  

    Fixes: If you want balance then I suggest you make them equal. A few lacking points in agility and hit rate makes a big difference with the current state of the game

 

5. Healing - Gangster paradise cooldown is a pain, even if they change combo point generation, you still won't be able to use this skill

    

     Fixes: 1. Slightly reduce cooldown

                2. Increase healing rate (not every 2 seconds)

 

6. Unstable Dopping - Atk 20% is useless.

   

    Fixes 1. Change it to Hit

             2. Proc both at a lower %

             3.Totally remove the Atk 20% and lower Crit %

 

7. Chasing capability - We can't chase people but we have a skill that disables them and make them slower (Cresent Moon) If you can't chase them in the first place, how would you even expect to kick them down and use it? And how can you use it without hitting your opponent 5 times to generate combo points for it?

 

     Fixes 1.Give cresent moon 4 meter range instead of 2

               2.Give it a lightning walk effect in a short range (4meter) while increasing the cooldown in higher levels for balance

 

 

 

Note: Stuff on the bug reports such as Detect Weakness and Dark Illusion stays on that thread. This thread is for changes/balancing/suggestions on our skill tree.

 

   


Edited by Strobe, 19 March 2014 - 10:56 AM.

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#4 Deyaboo

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 10:53 AM

Sry Strobes i know you are doing your best but, I dont really see the need on open another thread about sugestions is kind repetitive, I suggest divide the issues we have like u say Stats, Combo generation, Survavility, Atak etc and make a poll with the possible fixes to this issues so the rogue community can vote for what they think is better option to fix that specific issue for our class.


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#5 Strobe

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 11:08 AM

Deyaboo, this thread is made for compiling and to know which skill needs to be fixed/changed first. It gives me an idea on what issue needs to be prioritized than the other. If there are heads banging then this thread isn't for it. This is merely an easier access than browsing through over and over. An individual has a lot of issues and by posting them here, I would know what that player wants to change first.

 

e.g.

Leizan's post tells me that the first thing he wants to get fixed is the hit/dodge rate.

My post is the same. That means that when I submit my report, I would be prioritizing the hit/dodge rate than anything else.

 

I suggest you do the same Deyaboo. It would help me a lot. Thanks


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#6 Billeh

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 02:05 PM

These are the things that, at least in my opinion should probably be worked out soon. 

IGN: Billy

 

1. Issue: Dark Illusion Skill bugs.

    Explanation: When using it on a target moving away, it sometimes makes you jump back instead of forward. More often than that, you'll get locked into the skill with it teleporting you, but not activating the hit. This locks all your skills and prevnets you from doing anything at all until you relog or die. Fix this!

 

2. Issue: Rogue distance closer!

    Suggestion/Fix: All we really have is Dark Illusion, which is only usable from stealth. Since all of our damage dealing skills (aside from throw dagger) require melee range and we don't have the speed capability of other classes, an actual distance closing ability would be nice. Either in the form of the ability to use Crescent moon from a further range (doesn't have to be too far) to slow the enemy or a change to Cross Impact, giving it a ranged CC or charge effect. Could also give Smoke Bomb a temporary speed boost when used.

  

3. Issue: Unstable Doping/Adrenaline rush

    Explanation: With the current state of stats, the Atk bonus barely affects damage. As an example, a 2300-2400 double attack will increase to a 2500-2600 double attack with an extra 1400 attack power from Adrenaline rush and 2700-2800 with the addition of the 20% attack effect activated. 

    Suggestion/Fix: Change the amount or format for Adrenaline Rush damage increases and either get rid of or change the 20% atk doping boost to something else. (20% Hit/Haste/Vigor) Keeping just the 20% Crit is alright too.
 

4. Issue: Hit/Dodge/Bonus

    Suggestion/Fix: While fixing hit/dodge may change my opinion on this issue, I really dislike dodge as a bonus stat. It'd be nice if it was changed to something more DPS-ey. Hit, Crit or Attack Power. Personally leaning towards Hitrate atm. However I don't rank it that high because should they change the formulas of both hit and dodge in addition to addressing the agi only stacking problem, it may or may not change my opinion on dodge as a bonus stat for Rogues.


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#7 Strobe

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 01:20 AM

I received a lot of pms and have decided that bug fixes should come first.

 

The first 3 I prioritized is this

 

1.Dark Illusion (to prevent skill bug and getting stuck in colo/woe)

2.Detect Weakness (Doesn't work with Deadly Blow)

3.Hit/Dodge fix generally for all classes but if they can't fix this yet, would make the 3rd suggestion be combo point generation (Several rogues have this as one of their top suggestions)

 

4 and up will be balancing and changes. Thanks!

 

 

 


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#8 Leinzan

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 07:42 AM

you can add another bug to the list then,

 

Smoke Bomb, if you execute it while a monster is in the middle of its attack animation against you, there is a high chance of it:

A ) Not reseting but loses sight of you, it will reset after 1 or 2 seconds later (you can use MD if you time it right with Combo Mastery).

B ) Not reseting and also not losing you of sight, will keep on attacking.

C ) It resets properly and immediately (only if you timed it wrong with its attack animation).

 

 

 

There are ways to work around the Dark Illusion bug,

1 ) Do not execute it on a target that is about to die, since if it dies after you jump but before you attack you will get stuck.

2 ) When you execute it, be sure to be moving around, can be side ways, backwards or forward, but never stay still, this decreases the chances of mobs running back to your starting position.

3 ) Do not try to use the Dagger Throw + Dark Illusion combination unless you are totally sure you will connect Dark Illusion attack first, otherwise, there is a high chance you'll get stuck like on the case (1)

4 ) Do not jump into heavily AoEing zones or enemies executing AoEs, since there is a high chance you'll get stuck like in case (1)

5 ) Dark Illusion will warp you to the lowest point of a slope if your target is at a higher ground position than you, however this won't happen if you are at a higher position than your target (you can consider the outside ring of the Colosseum as lower ground than the arena's platform, so it might happen a lot if you do it that way. Be sure to execute it while standing on the platform.

6 ) Always do Dark Illusion while jumping, it ensures a bit better starting position that most of the times overrides this problem. (you still have to be moving at least sideways for monsters tho).


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#9 aznphoen1x

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 03:39 AM

IGN: Aromia

 

I think most has been mentioned already, but here's my feedback anyways:

     1.  Issue: Getting 5 combo points takes too long

          Suggestion: Combo Training needs to proc more often / dual stab could give 3 points instead of 2

    

     2.  Issue: Little to no chasing capability

          Suggestion: Add a passive skill for rogues that adds a slow effect to Dagger Throwing (I think this is the easiest way to solve our chasing issue, I had a similair skill like this in Guild Wars 2 and it works well for chasing and it's not OP)

 

     3.  Issue: Unstable doping 20% Attack power proc isn't very useful

          Suggestion: I like the suggestion I read in this thread, change it into 20% hit instead

 

     4.  Issue: Dirty plan's animation is too slow (This gets me killed. I have to wait untill dirty plan's animation is done, then activate gangster's paradise and then wait 2 seconds before I get the first bit of healing. Takes too long)
          Suggestion: Make the animation twice as fast

 

 

6. Unstable Dopping - Atk 20% is useless.

   

    Fixes 1. Change it to Hit

             2. Proc both at a lower %

             3.Totally remove the Atk 20% and lower Crit %

 

 

I don't agree with lowering proc rate, it's fine as it is. I don't agree with lowering crit % either, this makes us stand out and unique. Please don't change that. Like I mentioned above, I agree with removing atk bonus though.

 

 


5. Healing - Gangster paradise cooldown is a pain, even if they change combo point generation, you still won't be able to use this skill

    

     Fixes: 1. Slightly reduce cooldown

                2. Increase healing rate (not every 2 seconds)

 

 

 I think gangster's paradise is fine and doesn't need changing.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add my IGN.


Edited by aznphoen1x, 25 March 2014 - 04:37 AM.

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#10 Strobe

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 01:16 PM

Hi Aromia, I have covered most of your suggestions from my report last week. You can check here http://forums.warppo...gue-vcr-report/

 

The one I meant for Unstable Doping is proc ATK and Crit at the same time but bonus is lower than 20%. But suggestions to exchange ATK to Hit had majority pick so I guess i'll report that.

 

As for Gangster Paradise, I think it is best to fiddle with it ONLY if Grimtooth healing is nerfed. If it doesn't then I think we also need to give it a boost to balance with assassin's healing ability.

Note that they still have turtle mode, running speed, and crazy healing than our gangster paradise and buggy smoke bomb for survivability


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#11 aznphoen1x

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 08:53 AM

Ahh I see. We'll see how things go. Let's hope our feedback will change some things for the better ^^


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#12 Leinzan

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 07:30 AM

Another way for Rogues (and any other class really...) to generate Combo Points faster and easily without going into OPland would be to give a better utility to the Haste parameter.

 

As I get it, Haste and Vigor are two sides of the same coin, or at least, it was supposed to be like that.

 

 

Pre-AoV, Haste wasn't really something great, it was the same as the new parameter Casting Time, reducing the time in which skills with a casting time takes in order to cast (so much redundance). Quite the good parameter for casting classes such as magic classes, but never so great for physical classes.

 

Now in AoV, Haste has become a different parameter, reducing the time it takes for normal attacks to happen (the white number), normal attacks then have quite a DoT feeling, since they are automatic, albeit the ticks are twice as often. But I believe that Haste is overshadowed by Vigor.

 

Vigor, as pre-AoV and as of now, has a very VERY important and appealing effect, reducing the Cooldown of all skills, and having it high enought can equate to doubling your DPS... heck, you could decide which skill build you want based on how much Vigor % you can afford!! Mine for example has reached the 51.9% (no, my redseed runes havent exceeded the 12% average) and can boast of having «Moonlight Dance» back every 9.67 seconds or so. Can have «Mark of Genocide» up for 90 seconds and rest it for 30 seconds for the next 90 seconds wave. Can use the cuadra damage almost as freely. Could use «Crescent Moon» with 1 combo point to inflict Fracture for 10 seconds and it would be back 7 seconds later, so its perma slow and non-heals for my oponent (if I hit, that is).

 

Yes, Vigor is that great... but like you all, I fall into the same problem... I have 4 combo point consuming skills, and they are back and ready faster than I can make use of them. Combo point generating is of a great importance.

 

Then what does combo points have to do with Haste?

 

As I mentioned before, Vigor and Haste have a twins parameters feeling. Vigor reduces cooldowns, and I do believe that Haste should reduce skill animation time. Allow me to explain:

 

Double Attack, has 1 second cooldown, and about 1 second of skill animation. Even with 51.9% Vigor and Double Attack having its cooldown chopped down to 0.48 seconds, it still has a 1 second skill animation. It means that even having that much Vigor, Combo Point Generation would be by no means better than a lvl 1 thief with lvl 1 Double Attack, no matter what I do.

 

On the other hand, if Haste was to affect skill animations, in my case, having about 43% Haste (since I don't remember atm), Double Attack animation would take 0.57 seconds and the cooldown of the skill would be of 0.48 seconds, this means that the skill could be reused in almost half the time, that equates to double the damage output and Combo Point Generation.

 

 

In other words, Vigor would be of a great help to skills with a long cooldown and Haste, would support skills with small cooldown but long skill animation.

 

(now, if only this were true and AR were to boost Haste... huehuehuehue)


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#13 Strobe

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 10:37 PM

Sorry guys I'm a bit delayed with 2nd week report coz I think i have mostly covered everything with my 1st report, but a head's up would be good.

I will be covering skill change suggestions and those cooldowns that have been mentioned.

Will not forget about the Dark Illusion being completely messed up since last patch. Will submit mine on Tuesday.

Haven't been on for 3 days coz of RL stuff. Sorry


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#14 aznphoen1x

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:03 AM

Yeah I think right now I just want dark illusion fixed aha :P


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#15 aznphoen1x

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 12:06 AM

Another way for Rogues (and any other class really...) to generate Combo Points faster and easily without going into OPland would be to give a better utility to the Haste parameter.

 

...

 

As I mentioned before, Vigor and Haste have a twins parameters feeling. Vigor reduces cooldowns, and I do believe that Haste should reduce skill animation time.

 

 

Ah so does that mean haste could possibly reduce Dirty Plan's skill animation? I dislike how slow it is :S


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#16 Leinzan

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 08:30 AM

yea, it should apply the same way... altho my aim was more focused on repetitive skills like «Double Attack», «Bash» and «Diem Wind» that are main builders for other skills, but yea, should work the same for «Dirty Plan»

 

(seriusly, whats so dirty about being a standing duck?)


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#17 Billeh

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 01:22 PM

Isn't there a global cooldown on all skills that'd prevent the spammage of stuff like double attack anyway? Though I agree Dirty plan animation leaves us sitting still for quite a long time....


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#18 Leinzan

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Posted 01 April 2014 - 03:11 PM

there IS a cooldown on skills like «Double Attack»

However there is none in others like «Deadly Blow», but you can't spam it, right? The only thing you get is that the skill gets stuck in cue and is executed again after the first one whether you still wanted to do it or not... but thats not the problem, thats a bug.

 

The skill animation itself is what freezes all the other skills.

 

While the character is in the middle of executing a skill animation, all other skills are frozen and can't be used until the character is out of the skill animation. The skill's cooldown starts as soon as the skill animation is executed too, but regardless of how much you reduce a skill's cooldown, the animation remains the same, reaching a point in which it feels like its getting in the way.


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#19 aznphoen1x

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 01:24 AM

yea, it should apply the same way... altho my aim was more focused on repetitive skills like «Double Attack», «Bash» and «Diem Wind» that are main builders for other skills, but yea, should work the same for «Dirty Plan»

 

(seriusly, whats so dirty about being a standing duck?)

 

Lol Standing duck, isn't it sitting duck? xD Oh right, can't sit during combat :p_smile:

 

Isn't there a global cooldown on all skills that'd prevent the spammage of stuff like double attack anyway? Though I agree Dirty plan animation leaves us sitting still for quite a long time....

 

Yeah, I think dirty plan's animation should be faster. Could this be added to the report please? ^^ (If all you guys feel the same of course aha)
 


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#20 Strobe

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 02:24 AM

I have included reduced cast time/animation of Dirty Plan and Mark of Death from my report yesterday :no1:


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#21 Leinzan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:12 AM

Lol Standing duck, isn't it sitting duck? xD Oh right, can't sit during combat :p_smile:

Sitting is for good kidz :v


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#22 aznphoen1x

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:56 AM

Oh ok, thx for adding it!

And haha sitting is good indeed :P


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#23 Leinzan

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 07:00 AM

You know... one of the RO1 favorite skills for the assassins were the «Soul Breaker».

 

In this case this skill could be implemented here as some sort of finisher with ranged properties that can be weak by itself but strong on poisoned/bleeding/knocked down oponents

 

Something like:

Skill Level / % Modifier / Extra % Modifier per ailment (maximum of 3) / Maximum % Modifier

1 / 120 / 40 / 240

2 / 140 / 50 / 290

3 / 160 / 60 / 340

4 / 180 / 70 / 390

5 / 200 / 80 / 440

 

 

Replacing «Cross Impact» or «Dual Stab» by stealing either of those skills' properties, Soul Breaker could add the ranged feature of 10 meters.

 

> By replacing Cross Impact, Soul Breaker would grant 1 Combo Point, have 8 seconds cooldown and be available for both Assassins and Rogues. The damage table would be like the previous example.

 

> By replacing Dual Stab, Soul Breaker would grant 2 Combo Points, have 10 seconds cooldown, have a chance to proc «Detect Weakness» and be available for Rogues only. The damage table would be:

 

Skill Level / % Modifier / Extra % Modifier per ailment (maximum of 3) / Maximum % Modifier

6 / 220 / 90 / 490

7 / 240 / 110 / 540

8 / 260 / 120 / 590

9 / 280 / 130 / 640

10 / 300 / 140 / 690

 

 

The example is a bit extreme, after all Im always seeking for finishers and stuff for DPSing :|

opinions :v?


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#24 KaijuLady

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:23 AM

Strobes, This is a little late and I don't even know if this VCR thing even works anymore but here goes:

 

IGN: ladykaiju

 

1. Issue: Unstable Doping Skill is too weak.

    Suggestion: This skill needs to have a base effect that lasts for 30mins perhaps the 20% Attack/Agi and then an additional random Adrenaline Rush effect that procs for a limited time. This would fix the problem of us constantly being so slow (maybe) and make the skill useful (like if Adrenaline Rush x2 the effect for 30 seconds giving us 40% Attack/Agi) when maxxed. 

    Fixes: ^^^^

 

2Issue: Detect Weakness

    Suggestion: Power Up and Change Placement/Skill Point Amount

    Fixes: Sooo....I use Moonlight Dance and Deadly Blow a lot...but I never use Dual Stab. I would rather have a powerful passive Detect Weakness Skill that maxxed out at 5 skill points (lvl 5 being 30%) allowing 5 other skill points to be thrown into other skills. The Detect Weakness should also work for Crescent Moon too.  I think this would help us stand out from Sins and fit with our new description that was mentioned as having "multiple little hits and then one BIG counter attack" or whatever that was mentioned. Our other major melee attacks would be five skill points higher (like Crescent Moon) and we would randomly hit bigger than normal utilizing DW. Of course Detect Weakness would have to be fixed....

 

 Thanks for collecting all the suggestions! It's fun to dream or whatever.  

 


Edited by KaijuLady, 23 June 2014 - 09:25 AM.

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#25 TheOdyssei

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:39 PM

we are still uselss in pvp vs sins tanks rangers


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