249 replies to this topic

[DoubleRose]

The raider nerfs are fine, but why do they have to affect dual raiders?  I know katar raiders are hit harder, but dual raiders are losing some attack speed too.

[Feuer]

Ahya asked I post this idea I had.

 

Debuffs are applied at rates of 1~2 downs / cast, or in the Very rare case of a Champ, 3 downs / 1 cast on ultimate scream.

 

The goal for reducing the Purify is to allow and give more weight to status downs and DoT's. 

While I Agree that the AoE purify should be lowered and a Cooldown added, most people are raging already that it's 1 purify.

The way I see if, is most case status downs are not AoE, and require single target application. There's a decent amount, but not an over powering number of AoE status downs. And even in that case, majority of those are 1 status down / cast.

 

So The idea that the AoE Purify remove 1 status down in an area, with a moderate cooldown of 8-10 makes perfect sense when it's compared to the status down application speeds for AoE downs.

The single target Purify, is the one I see as needing some minor tuning. 

I propose that the Single Target purify be a range of 1~3 downs removed / cast attempt. And that the cooldown on that be 10 seconds.

 

Most clerics, in-fact almost all cleric, only want the Purify in their team in case they get muted. Seems selfish, but also serves a purpose. However, you should have to invest into the skills and max them out to receive the full benefit.

Single Target Purify: 

Purify (1 * 0.5) skill level : status downs

---[Level 5: 2.5 status downs / cast purified]

Cooldown: ( -5 * skill level) + 35 seconds

---[Level 1: 30 second CD | Level 5: 10 second cooldown]

 

For The Aoe it should simply be 1~2 status downs / cast with a solid 10 second cooldown at max level.

 

 

 

[SpawN9999]

hmm..cant you guys make a lvl 230 class character instantly ? Anyway i was just thinking itd be cool to see a dev playing in a game . dont think a 10 vs 10 full match  was ever done on pega

[Leonis]

The raider nerfs are fine, but why do they have to affect dual raiders?  I know katar raiders are hit harder, but dual raiders are losing some attack speed too.

 

You lost, 5%...
 

[Leonis]

Ahya asked I post this idea I had.

 

Debuffs are applied at rates of 1~2 downs / cast, or in the Very rare case of a Champ, 3 downs / 1 cast on ultimate scream.

 

The goal for reducing the Purify is to allow and give more weight to status downs and DoT's. 

While I Agree that the AoE purify should be lowered and a Cooldown added, most people are raging already that it's 1 purify.

The way I see if, is most case status downs are not AoE, and require single target application. There's a decent amount, but not an over powering number of AoE status downs. And even in that case, majority of those are 1 status down / cast.

 

So The idea that the AoE Purify remove 1 status down in an area, with a moderate cooldown of 8-10 makes perfect sense when it's compared to the status down application speeds for AoE downs.

The single target Purify, is the one I see as needing some minor tuning. 

I propose that the Single Target purify be a range of 1~3 downs removed / cast attempt. And that the cooldown on that be 10 seconds.

 

Most clerics, in-fact almost all cleric, only want the Purify in their team in case they get muted. Seems selfish, but also serves a purpose. However, you should have to invest into the skills and max them out to receive the full benefit.

Single Target Purify: 

Purify (1 * 0.5) skill level : status downs

---[Level 5: 2.5 status downs / cast purified]

Cooldown: ( -5 * skill level) + 35 seconds

---[Level 1: 30 second CD | Level 5: 10 second cooldown]

 

For The Aoe it should simply be 1~2 status downs / cast with a solid 10 second cooldown at max level.

 

Good arguments and valid points, but the update is in effect and we'll see it run the course for a bit before making further changes. The soonest you can expect any kind of change would be April 1st, which is our next planned maintenance and patch day potential, for the start of the new month.
 

[Leonis]

hmm..cant you guys make a lvl 230 class character instantly ? Anyway i was just thinking itd be cool to see a dev playing in a game . dont think a 10 vs 10 full match  was ever done on pega

Not on Pegasus, no. But live servers, they have been extremely active since the past two updates.

[DoubleRose]

You lost, 5%...
 

 

Unjustified nerf to a not overpowered class

It's certainly not 1000 armor, but a nerf all the same lol. I'm aware it doesn't change much, especially considering that dual raiders aren't the best normal attackers

Edited by DoubleRose, 25 March 2014 - 04:10 PM.

[Ahya]

hmm..cant you guys make a lvl 230 class character instantly ? Anyway i was just thinking itd be cool to see a dev playing in a game . dont think a 10 vs 10 full match  was ever done on pega

 

I... Wanna see this happen too.

[jerremy]

Unjustified nerf to a not overpowered class

It's certainly not 1000 armor, but a nerf all the same lol. I'm aware it doesn't change much, especially considering that dual raiders aren't the best normal attackers

My dual raider doesn't even have the attack speed passives in the first place, so no nerf for me yay.

 

 

On a side note, there don't seem to be any resets to the classes affected this update?

[sforstun]

feuer!! no free resets accoured. you !@#$% (kiddin on the angry part)

[DestinyDeoxys]

I don't know if you forget or what, I tested the Cure skill, it does have the Dispell: 1 effect and the +5 stacks healing touch, so I don't know what's the point to use the regular purify when the cure has 2.0 sec cool down only while the purify has 3.5 sec. I thought you were supposed to remove the Dispell: 1 effect on the Cure skill.

[Leonis]

If you have not received your skill/unique skill reset, please relog.

[Leonis]

I don't know if you forget or what, I tested the Cure skill, it does have the Dispell: 1 effect and the +5 stacks healing touch, so I don't know what's the point to use the regular purify when the cure has 2.0 sec cool down only while the purify has 3.5 sec. I thought you were supposed to remove the Dispell: 1 effect on the Cure skill.

Another good point that leads Purify to receive an improvement for the future in some way, but again for now, we're looking at the current changes.

[claw68]

So uh, guys.. what about champs? :x

 

CD is full of Raiders (Katars most of them). (but I play Dual Raider debuffer-kite-single-out-rape)

 

Well anyway, almost all other classes have this escaping tool EXCEPT champions. (Das why all raiders in CD lel)

Katars got Stealth,

Duals got Def and Dodge buff (with mspd, they can get in and out of battle no problem and also unique stealth too),

Muse class have this uh - absorb damage stuff, (MSPD debuff for mage and heal for cleric)

Bourg have this super range (not really sure about this one),

Arti got sleep and grenades..

Knights can just walk around because they are tanks

 

Champs only have this immunity to stuns and sleep but does not really help at surviving PVP GA without clerics at all. They kinda locked on a place where they currently are. They are a walking Honor point food (given, if there are no healer around). This maybe why there are less preferable class to use in PVP.

My suggestion is.. can you at least take back the Charge Skill? (Temporary MSPD boost) Or some suggestions on how to get a champ OUT of the battlefield maybe?
 

[Leonis]

So uh, guys.. what about champs? :x

 

CD is full of Raiders (Katars most of them). (but I play Dual Raider debuffer-kite-single-out-rape)

 

Well anyway, almost all other classes have this escaping tool EXCEPT champions. (Das why all raiders in CD lel)

Katars got Stealth,

Duals got Def and Dodge buff (with mspd, they can get in and out of battle no problem and also unique stealth too),

Muse class have this uh - absorb damage stuff, (MSPD debuff for mage and heal for cleric)

Bourg have this super range (not really sure about this one),

Arti got sleep and grenades..

Knights can just walk around because they are tanks

 

Champs only have this immunity to stuns and sleep but does not really help at surviving PVP GA without clerics at all. They kinda locked on a place where they currently are. They are a walking Honor point food (given, if there are no healer around). This maybe why there are less preferable class to use in PVP.

My suggestion is.. can you at least take back the Charge Skill? (Temporary MSPD boost) Or some suggestions on how to get a champ OUT of the battlefield maybe?
 

I believe I state in a past thread, regarding the recent skill updates, that I would be attending to the other classes that were not focused on recently, to give them similar updates but more tame. Champions, I don't really fall under an "escape" utility, because their focus is to charge in, in a fireball of glory and taking out whomever they can in the process. (jk, kinda) but they are not a defensive class, they are offensive. IF you want to build it in such a way, that is entirely up to you, but as a class design goes, they are about fighting the good fight, and they still do it well.

[jerremy]

So, just tried a game with my dual raider. I'm not sure about the cleric's point of view, but as the one who is applying all these debuffs (mspd, accu, aspd and def down), I love the change to purify.

Before I didn't even have to bother using any of them since one of the oh so many clerics would just hit the puri button and all the debuffs would be gone, every single time. Now it feels like they actually matter and properly help.

[claw68]

So suicidal class eh? (S&M class LEL)

 

Charge can be used to charge in. just saying.

 

Well anyway, just remember this suggestion if your data shows less and less champs are played in PVP arenas. We'll never know. *wink*

[claw68]

So, just tried a game with my dual raider. I'm not sure about the cleric's point of view, but as the one who is applying all these debuffs (mspd, accu, aspd and def down), I love the change to purify.

Before I didn't even have to bother using any of them since one of the oh so many clerics would just hit the puri button and all the debuffs would be gone, every single time. Now it feels like they actually matter and properly help.

 

Maybe I will try the debuffer champ then!

HUEHUEHUEHUEHUE

[Feuer]

I agree Leonis, But the Charge skill was 90% of the time -when it was rarely used- was used to catch prey or charge into the battle. I actually feel this should be a General Soldier skill. As knights would also want to charge in and start tanking + drawing aggro + taunts first. As far as class concepts go, the ideal charge would have you Charge at an enemy, possibly dazing them or pinning them to the ground. As far as I know, there's no ingame mechanic to support that notion.

 

So perhaps "Charge" could be made a unique skill, requiring the mspd passive. And it only castable with an enemy targeted. Almost like a "ranged" cast, that -200% mspd for 4 seconds on the enemy, and increase movespeed by a flat 1000 for 4 seconds. Giving the "illusion" of charging and pinning a foe. The requirement for an enemy selected would make using it as an escape incredibly hard. You have to target, cast, and immediately start clicking away, by then you've only got 2-3 seconds left. 

[claw68]

It was rarely used because it doesn't stack and "overwrites" Cleric buff but now they have the mechanism to "stack" buffs (as a timed passive).

Well, nice points. I agree that it should be a unique and targetted skill to keep it 'offensive'. Well, idk if it should require mspd passive though, if I have this skill, I should put my skill points somewhere. I mean MSPD Passive to get a MSPD Active is too overwhelming mspd for a champ because the class is not based on MSPD as a core build.

 

Based on your points, Maybe it should require a debuff skill. More of an enhanced version of a MSPD debuff skill.

Edited by claw68, 25 March 2014 - 05:14 PM.

[Feuer]

I like where you're going with that, plus it allows the opening of the skill to knights as well. Good idea claw

[jerremy]

Something I would like to point out regarding the 15% attack speed nerf on katar raiders. Since attack speed scales diminishing (the effect lessens as you get more and more), when you have such a high amount of attack speed (like a katar raider who often has 300%+ buffed attack speed), a drop of 15% will be so insignificant that it is barely noticeable. So not sure if it'll really do much.

Glad you took the suggestion of slightly lowering the crit down though, love that one.

[Bendersmom]

Feuer - "Most clerics, in-fact almost all cleric, only want the Purify in their team in case they get muted. Seems selfish, but also serves a purpose. However, you should have to invest into the skills and max them out to receive the full benefit."

 

I just have one question...do you play cleric as your main char in CDs?  My purify is maxed and I spent the money for the unique purify.  Of course it was all for selfish reasons...oh wait, I can't purify myself so maybe not.  I use purify on other clerics for sure, but I also use it on other classes that really suffer from mutes like mages, or on those trying to escape, etc.  I use it smartly and as I can.  

 

I don't know how you do it Feuer but you are very good at getting to me with the choice of words that you use.  I had decided to wait and see how much the lack of purify effects my game before posting again, but you posted that.  

 

FS cleric is my main char.  I care about the class and actually we are typically the most unselfish players in the game.  Everyone else jumps ship off of cleric if there are too many changes or if they are no fun to play anymore after each nerf they get.  But some of us still stay.  But maybe if things make playing the class less and less fun you will finally get your wish and the class will die.  Maybe we will become selfish and play another class where we can only be aware of ourselves and our game play.  The cleric gets nerfed more than any class in this game and it is continual.  Yet we keep trying to adjust and play the class but it really is not much fun anymore.

Edited by Bendersmom, 25 March 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[Bendersmom]

And debuffs, mutes, stuns, sleeps and silence might be cast in ones and twos, but you will see once you play that FS cleric in Cd that we often have 2-3 debuffs on us as well a sleep or mute or stun.  So big deal, we will get the mdef down or the slow effect taken off.  Won't matter, we will die.  And dying over and over again with no offensive skills, no way to escape the massive group trying to kill us, and plenty of debuffs.  

But I will try it out for the week since we have no choice and report back and get to work gearing up my mage, scout or bourg.

 

BTW what is the order of primary targets in CD?  On Leonis and the ones I play in the primary targets are the ones that benefit the most from my using my purify.

1. Cleric

2. Mages

3. Arties

4. maybe champs 

Ignore knights they don't hurt that much

Scouts are ranged and the group doesn't go after them

Sometimes bourgs if they are good but again, ranged

Never raiders...they can hit and run too fast

 

As primary targets those classes rarely have 1 or 2 debuffs on them.  They always have a lot and the disabling effects like stun, sleep and mute.  So there is no reason anymore to even have purify.  It will only take one off of them and I don't like gambling enough with 5+ SP to hope that I can get the one thing off that is causing the most problems.

Edited by Bendersmom, 25 March 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[ChampPower]

I just reset and ditch the purify skills (both the unique and regular skills together). They are not worth the skill points we use for them. 7 skills points for only 1 debuff dispell? Please, it is so no worth it. I rather use those 7 skill points for something else.

Edited by ChampPower, 25 March 2014 - 08:28 PM.