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#1 Aceave

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:45 AM

I was just think while playing ( i know dangerous), Why can people not play this game without cheating. 

 

I have been apart of this game for many year (since beta, with a stint off after subsrition play broght in Kafar points), and even sicnce then i have never cheated or particapated in cheating.  I have never done horibly great for myself, but i have been ok.

 

Now i walk around the R.O. world and i see armies of bots lining up at west kafra and below it, i See 20 + bots in main leveling maps ( Goats and aligators), i see No Delay snipers, LK, And others, i see Auto pot going off left and right ( even AFK chars ). I just don't get it.

 

This is a simple game. The cheating is very apperant and has been reported many times by multiple ppl, but little is done. ban one bot More come, Ban a player for third party programs, the come back on another or get un banned because of whinning and crying.

 

is this what we are being taught, cheat to get the best stuff and everyone will look the other way. 

 

Can we Please start Looking at this seroiusly. i know it is not going to happen over night, But something needs to be put in motion.

 

 

Just My Thoughts


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#2 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 03:07 AM

This isn't a problem that started yesturday. It's happend for years and years and the gms failed to contain it or impliment something to effectively reduce cheating.

IMHO, they can't ban all the cheaters from game. It would kill the servers population. It is sad but true.

The best thing they have done vs bots is the gsb, on classic. I will stand by it and continue to say that it is one of the best things they have done.

For the other herbs and spices, I don't think they have much to deal with those issues. Unless it's only biased bans, then the servers pop would be destroyed if they enforced it with an iron fist starting now. If they were strict about it from the beginning, then it may have not gotten so out of hand but that isn't the case.

This can be applied to classic and renewal.

Edited by Gn1ydnu, 06 June 2014 - 03:09 AM.

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#3 Aceave

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 03:14 AM

I hear you on the topic "This isn't a problem that started yesturday", but i think we can start Cleaning it up Tommorow (figure of speech), i think we need to start actively pushing the BOT tickets and Maybe Even Calling out ppl on 3rd Party Programs (with proof of course (replay is free)).  I just dont like seeing this happen so oviously. it needs to be rained in and taken care of.


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#4 Xellie

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 07:51 AM

something has got to be done on Classic.

 

WoE needs policing.

Autopot is everywhere.

Nodelay is rampant.

and there is packet spamming frenzy. It's kind of obvious when "certain people" come on screen and everyone starts to lag.

And of course everyone and their momma has a "maya purple"

(also wtf is up with all the +10 GR valk armors?)

 

The problem is this, yes, it's 2014.

But not everyone has access to these programs, that instantly makes it unfair. Also the sketchy policing of these items could also be a tool for GM corruption. I'm not saying there is any but it's not a nice thought.

 

There are some client edits that are competely benign and dont really affect much of anything / act as a bug fix. A good example of this is the no party popup chat hex. It makes it so that you can't have any 1:1 PM windows, for those of us who play support, this is a feature lost from renewal. This shouldn't be bannable, it should be official. Along with the no shake, fixed camera and zoom options. (zoom doesn't hurt the game, the draw range is fixed and does not increase).

 

Some are not so innocent, such as allowing one player to walk directly on top of another to make targetting hard. Changing individual players sprites to be larger than others, to take out key classes. That stuff is bs and should be struck down. Obviously that is extremely hard to prove tho.

 

Nodelay should be punished at least little and often. Thorough testing and observation is required to conclude if a player is using nodelay and it can be extremely hard to tell sometimes (see LKs vs Valk mant reflect vs nodelay). Removing that player for the WoEs they so care about a week, 2 weeks, would make people aware, they are being watched.

Nodelay is however, game breaking. Game changing. Game ruining. Nobody really would care if it was some lone LK hitting bathories or whatever, but this is pvp/mvp direct competition. It's bs.

 

And then there is autopot.

 

I polled my guild recently after a discussion of opinions on the different cheats in the game. Not because we want to use them, but because I wanted some ammo and statistics to throw around regarding players opinions.

 

Many people don't care if other players use autopot in PVM. It is a feature in other games that is for sure and with RO insisting on forcing long hours of grinding there is a health benefit to this.

 

For WoE opinion was a lot more divided. Death in RO, especially in WoE often comes from being forced to multitask. It relies on human error. Managing your health, your equipment, your targets, positioning movement. It's a lot to think about. This isn't about how fast you spam your potions, it is about reacting.

 

And autopot can be very hard to tell apart from an extremely attentive player. I get accused of autopotting alllllllllll the time when I'm not. Any skilled player or player who hides their hotkey bar in videos / has effects off gets accused of it. Not that people can see if you're pre-potting or over potting because of /effect or hidden hotkeys (I don't like to display my armor switches).

 

The things my guild replied to my poll with was that regardless of how anyone feels about autopot, it is a gamechanger. It allows focused attention on other things and removes the human error element of dying when you "forget to pot" (guilty btw, I forget to pot a lot of the time).

I asked them, should there be an official (Gravity/warpportal) autopot just based on making things fair, and the replies were split exactly 50/50.

 

It would change the game a lot. But for better or worse? This is a discussion I feel that one day will have to be had. Because it isn't going to "go away".


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#5 WickedElbow

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:17 AM

Well...

I don't really care if people bot or cheat in pvm/mvp. But when it comes to woe, it kills the server.

We all know who is cheating and who isn't. The irony lies on the fact that those people always cheated....and still, they used to accuse other guilds of doing this.

I got many videos and prints of people cheating and then complaining about other guilds(since 2012 in fact). It's bull-_-.

A game(woe at least) is supposed to be played by a human. Humans make mistakes, humans may have slow reaction sometimes and that is part of the game. But in order to win, people are cutting the "human thing" off. But why? I know the answer.

It's because they are afraid to lose. They think they can't get a good result without cheating, they think they have no skill and a bad reaction time. And of course, they think its some kind of humiliation to lose. Anyway, if its making them feel better....at least they are not quitting or crying about not being able to accomplish things. (like in the past...?)

 

It would be AWESOME if the gms could enforce those rules and punish people. It could be a clear warning, 3-day ban and a woe suspension. It's up to them, tho.

 

We just wanted say that we are not dumb and we know who is doing this crap.

 


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#6 WickedElbow

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:18 AM

doubled, sorry.

 


Edited by WickedElbow, 06 June 2014 - 08:19 AM.

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#7 Facekiller

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:33 AM

Well...

I don't really care if people bot or cheat in pvm/mvp. But when it comes to woe, it kills the server.

We all know who is cheating and who isn't. The irony lies on the fact that those people always cheated....and still, they used to accuse other guilds of doing this.

I got many videos and prints of people cheating and then complaining about other guilds(since 2012 in fact). It's bull-_-.

A game(woe at least) is supposed to be played by a human. Humans make mistakes, humans may have slow reaction sometimes and that is part of the game. But in order to win, people are cutting the "human thing" off. But why? I know the answer.

It's because they are afraid to lose. They think they can't get a good result without cheating, they think they have no skill and a bad reaction time. And of course, they think its some kind of humiliation to lose. Anyway, if its making them feel better....at least they are not quitting or crying about not being able to accomplish things. (like in the past...?)

 

It would be AWESOME if the gms could enforce those rules and punish people. It could be a clear warning, 3-day ban and a woe suspension. It's up to them, tho.

 

We just wanted say that we are not dumb and we know who is doing this crap.

 

just want to point out that cheating for MVPs is as big of a problem as it is for woe... just due to the fact that alot of the time MVPing is a competition between players, sometimes for very high stakes (MVP cards)... not to say that cheating in woe is any less bad... and cheaters will cheat anywhere so those cheaters in MVP who end up amassing tons of MVP cards will likely use their ill gotten gains in pvp and woe... so in that aspect you should care about cheating in MVP fights..
 


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#8 WickedElbow

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:07 AM

just want to point out that cheating for MVPs is as big of a problem as it is for woe... just due to the fact that alot of the time MVPing is a competition between players, sometimes for very high stakes (MVP cards)... not to say that cheating in woe is any less bad... and cheaters will cheat anywhere so those cheaters in MVP who end up amassing tons of MVP cards will likely use their ill gotten gains in pvp and woe... so in that aspect you should care about cheating in MVP fights..
 

 

Yes, you are right. I just wanted to point that cheating in woe is worse than in pvm/mvp...


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#9 Facekiller

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:19 AM

Yes, you are right. I just wanted to point that cheating in woe is worse than in pvm/mvp...

well a single person cheating in woe is not as bad as a single MVP cheater... unless that WoE cheater is a guild leader hes not generally walking away with a god item or anything of value... where a MVP cheater has the potential of making billions of zeny from a single MVP...


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#10 Aceave

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:24 AM

I am gald this is becoming a conversation. 

 

Cheating is Cheating dosent matter if it is Woe, MVP, or PvM. If u are willing to modify the game so u have an unfair advatage over the other players in the game you are cheating. 

 

It ruins the game and makes the people that are playing legit hate the game and start to quit.

 

Please continue this conversation and maybe the GM's will take notice


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#11 chrisbam77

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:49 AM

Along with the no shake, fixed camera and zoom options. (zoom doesn't hurt the game, the draw range is fixed and does not increase).

Can't you make a similar statement about how you mentioned autopotting? Not everyone has access to it so people shouldn't be allowed to do it. 

 

It should be the same with any sort of hex/client modification. If only certain people can do it, then why should they have an advantage? (Any sort of edit even being small like the 1:1 chat thing is still illegal and would give you the advantage over other support classes who don't have it disabled..)


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#12 Aceave

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:30 AM

If you think that way then maybe we should have a thread that will disscuse which modifications WP should look into to make legit for all players, 


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#13 Xeio

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:40 AM

Can't you make a similar statement about how you mentioned autopotting? Not everyone has access to it so people shouldn't be allowed to do it. 

 

It should be the same with any sort of hex/client modification. If only certain people can do it, then why should they have an advantage? (Any sort of edit even being small like the 1:1 chat thing is still illegal and would give you the advantage over other support classes who don't have it disabled..)

 

While your post is logical and makes sense, it just is impossible to police. Almost everything in this game is client-side, you can hex your clients you can alter files you can do ALL of this because nothing is server side. How do they enforce turning guild leaders into Satan Morrocs? Outside of they themselves posting videos or screenies there is absolutely NO way to enforce this without changing everything, which I'm pretty sure they do not have permission from kRO to do.

 

Enforce any and everything you can, but cheaters will always cheat and probably get away with it given how this game is coded sadly.


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#14 Xellie

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 12:03 PM

Can't you make a similar statement about how you mentioned autopotting? Not everyone has access to it so people shouldn't be allowed to do it. 

 

It should be the same with any sort of hex/client modification. If only certain people can do it, then why should they have an advantage? (Any sort of edit even being small like the 1:1 chat thing is still illegal and would give you the advantage over other support classes who don't have it disabled..)

 

I shall highlight the important part that you cropped out.

 

There are some client edits that are competely benign and dont really affect much of anything / act as a bug fix. A good example of this is the no party popup chat hex. It makes it so that you can't have any 1:1 PM windows, for those of us who play support, this is a feature lost from renewal. This shouldn't be bannable, it should be official. Along with the no shake, fixed camera and zoom options. (zoom doesn't hurt the game, the draw range is fixed and does not increase).

 


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#15 HeIIraiser

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 01:20 PM

I hear you on the topic "This isn't a problem that started yesturday", but i think we can start Cleaning it up Tommorow (figure of speech), i think we need to start actively pushing the BOT tickets and Maybe Even Calling out ppl on 3rd Party Programs (with proof of course (replay is free)).  I just dont like seeing this happen so oviously. it needs to be rained in and taken care of.

 

"Tommorrow never comes"

Must be done today, but it also seems today never comes either...

 


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#16 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 02:00 PM

It seems like this is a problem for both Renewal and Classic?


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#17 Aceave

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:12 PM

I think that we nee more input. who know sthe best way to get this question out to the masses?


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#18 HeIIraiser

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 08:13 PM

I think that we nee more input. who know sthe best way to get this question out to the masses?

 

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#19 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:06 PM

I think that we nee more input. who know sthe best way to get this question out to the masses?


Wall of shame
Temp bans for cheating, perm bans for habitual offenders
The community actually saying no to cheaters (don't harbor them in guilds).
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#20 Viri

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 09:19 PM

People like to win too much and its impossible to prove
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#21 Izzy1

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:48 PM

Absolutely correct about the cheating thing

not many WoE's without them now

i for one have been playing 11 years

my client is un-edited I guess we just need to get

over the fact it goes on, and not much we can

say or do to change it. i guess without regular

inspection of the guild castles during siege

the cheating will continue. more GM's patrolling castles?

yes please!

 

Could some of the things Xellie mention be implimented?

how about the packet monitoring thing.

everyone knows it happens. it's just hard

to point out who actually does it.

so yeah, I've said my thoughts. =/


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#22 Xellie

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:51 PM

Wall of shame
Temp bans for cheating, perm bans for habitual offenders
The community actually saying no to cheaters (don't harbor them in guilds).

 

Not joining guilds run by cheaters too. When a guildleader dupes/has a GM friend it ruins the game for everyone. Best to not support their -_-.


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#23 Alicia

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 10:59 PM

I was just think while playing ( i know dangerous), Why can people not play this game without cheating. 

 

I have been apart of this game for many year (since beta, with a stint off after subsrition play broght in Kafar points), and even sicnce then i have never cheated or particapated in cheating.  I have never done horibly great for myself, but i have been ok.

 

Now i walk around the R.O. world and i see armies of bots lining up at west kafra and below it, i See 20 + bots in main leveling maps ( Goats and aligators), i see No Delay snipers, LK, And others, i see Auto pot going off left and right ( even AFK chars ). I just don't get it.

 

This is a simple game. The cheating is very apperant and has been reported many times by multiple ppl, but little is done. ban one bot More come, Ban a player for third party programs, the come back on another or get un banned because of whinning and crying.

 

is this what we are being taught, cheat to get the best stuff and everyone will look the other way. 

 

Can we Please start Looking at this seroiusly. i know it is not going to happen over night, But something needs to be put in motion.

 

 

Just My Thoughts

 

What I find the most interesting out of this topic is that it's still active.

 

Personally, I have never felt any type of urge to cheat in any aspect of my life.

 

May it be that I am able and capable enough not to do so?

 

Only the forces that be would know, but in the end I have made it this far - into the cosmos.


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#24 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:10 PM

Could it really be that hard to implement integrity checks on data files/grfs/etc and 3rd party hooks in the executable?


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#25 zerowon

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Posted 06 June 2014 - 11:11 PM

am honestly quite shocked how a major game organization  has no true anti cheat department or a competition director. cause lets face it we play this game for its unique blend of pvp/pvm and team work between classes there is lil to almost none contact between the competing woe guilds and staff to address concerns there players have for competing in a fair & balanced environment sure there will be guilds/players with better items but once u add into the equation programs that take away human error the game just no longer becomes fun. my recommendations

 

1. hire a competition director or establish a true anti cheat team

2. communicate  more with the player base on how to get more attendance for woe and  players  into the game.

3. start showing u mean business with players that use these programs  a first offense doesn't need a banning 

but deleting a rare item they would send a message to all and of course more server punishment for repeat offenders/multiple violations.

 


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