232 replies to this topic

[Filipito98]

Hmm i was thinging in like someone do a drop table (not with location lvls n etc) but with the tier .... cuz like, sometimes we want to farm that item but we dunno the tier, anleast just tier would be awesome

soo yah a tier drop table

Common drops - this item, that item, etc

Rare drops - bla bla bla

and so on >.< .... like wana farm late some items and wana know wich tier are anleast :| without ask leonis or zurn or others always wich tier is this item and were i can farm? ._.

[HoneyBunz]

Hmm i was thinging in like someone do a drop table (not with location lvls n etc) but with the tier .... cuz like, sometimes we want to farm that item but we dunno the tier, anleast just tier would be awesome

soo yah a tier drop table

Common drops - this item, that item, etc

Rare drops - bla bla bla

and so on >.< .... like wana farm late some items and wana know wich tier are anleast :| without ask leonis or zurn or others always wich tier is this item and were i can farm? ._.

I know it's not every item in the game but didn't Leo kind of do that already in the first post of this topic? He gives examples of which items are in each tier.

 

[Cool4lisa]

where can i find dragon scales? from what mob and lvl?

[TaeNiMiku]

where can i find dragon scales? from what mob and lvl?

 

Little Worm Dragons and Worm Dragons I think. They're about level 60 I think.

I'm pretty sure there's something for high levels though.

 

You can also disassemble a Dragon Sword (sold by NPC in Eldeon if I remember correctly) to get Dragon Scales.

Edited by TaeNiMiku, 10 May 2015 - 02:53 PM.

[Draquora]

Little worm dragons and worm dragons no longer drop dragon scales. In fact they dont drop anything anymore.

[Tormented]

Little worm dragons and worm dragons no longer drop dragon scales. In fact they dont drop anything anymore.

 

If this is true - that they don't drop anything - then I feel that this is wrong.

 

Every monster should have a % chance of dropping something.

 

There shouldn't be any monster or Boss etc ingame that is setup to NOT drop anything on death.

 

It just defeats the point of killing it in the first place.

[KatsuraKujo]

If this is true - that they don't drop anything - then I feel that this is wrong.

 

Every monster should have a % chance of dropping something.

 

There shouldn't be any monster or Boss etc ingame that is setup to NOT drop anything on death.

 

It just defeats the point of killing it in the first place.

it doesn't drop anything because the giant dragon worm summons the worm dragons and the little ones, which makes it not supposedly a legit mob to have drops.

 

At least i think that's the reason 

[thetrangdamvn]

Fresh air.

[MaxTheDragon]

I'm wondering how all the medals and other drop boost items affect the drop rate and if/how they stack.

 

Let's take an example drop rate of 10% chance for a "very rare" drop.

 

Suppose I have/use the following:

 

- Premium service (+50% Extra Drop Rate)

- Medal of Abundance (Increase Maximum Item Drop Quantity by +3)

- Medal of Prosperity (Increases monsters base item drop chance for all drop tiers by 50%, after level considerations)

- Medal of Very Rare Gathering (Add an additional 10% to your base Very Rare Item Drop Rates)

- Medal of Fortune (With this medal your fortune is increased. One additional drop chance for defeating a monster is added with the use of this item!)

 

How would they affect the drop rates collectively and what would the chances of getting a very rare drop ultimately be per monster kill?

Edited by MaxTheDragon, 22 July 2015 - 05:11 AM.

[Leonis]

Drop effects of the same type, stack together (meaning they add together, not multiply one another)

 

Medal of Fortune, makes it so when you defeat a monster, instead of 1 death giving 1 round of drop chance per category (Common, Uncommon, Rare, etc.), it will give 2 rounds of drop processing for each category.

 

So if there is a 10% chance for a Very Rare Tier drop, you will have 2 chances, to get a 10% Rare Tier drop.

 

Medal of Very Rare Gathering, increases the Very Rare Tier drop chance, by adding to it. If we use the above example, if the drop chance for a Very Rare Tier is normally 10%, it would add 10% to it, making it a 20% chance to receive a Very Rare Tier drop.

 

Medal of Prosperity, increases the base item drop chance for all tiers, after level considerations. This means, after level adjustments (As you out level a monster, their drop chances reduce), drop rates are increased by 50% (50% is not added), so again with the above example, if you have a Very Rare Teir chance of 10%, it would increase it by 50%. [0.10 * 1.5 = 0.15] Making your Very Rare Tier, a 15% chance. And to follow up on the Medal of Very Rare Gathering, it would then add its 10% on top of that, making it now a 25% chance.

 

Medal of Abundance, Increase Maximum Item Drop Quantity by +3. What this means, is if you have an item that drops in a quantity (basically anything that's stackable, so not gear), you have a chance on pickup, to have the quantity increase by an additional 3 items at maximum. So, if an item has a normal drop quantity of minimum 1, and maximum 2, the item increases the maximum to now be 5. This makes is so that you now have a minimum 1, and maximum 5, to get when the item is picked up. Some stackable items that are generally high in usefulness, are set to a 1 min / 1 max, so this item can greatly increase your rate of gathering those kinds of items.

 

Premium Service, +50% Extra Drop Rate. Much like the Medal of Fortune, where it gives an additional drop, consider this a +100% to an extra drop, and the Premium Service is a +50% increase. These effects are added both together, and for every 100%, it is a guaranteed additional drop roll for every monster you defeat. So if you weren't using the Medal of Fortune, and only have the Premium Service, per monster, you would have a 50% chance of an extra drop process occurring.

 

So, with everything above active, and if we continue the example of a base 10% Very Rare Tier drop chance, this is what you could expect with all of those active.

 

You will have 2 drop processes guaranteed, with an additional 3rd drop chance of 50%

For each successful drop process, you will have a 25% chance of a Very Rare Tier item to be selected and dropped.

If any of the items in the Very Rare Tier drop are stackable, you will have an increased quantity roll, to its maximum, by 3.

 

I hope this helps you understand how they each can help influence your ability to find items. I know it may sound a bit confusing, but be assured they all help you in their own way, each being a good help, when they are all combined the outcome can be very beneficial.

[MaxTheDragon]

That was exactly the kind of explanation I was looking for. Thanks!

[Michiel97]

If I add a Legendary Item Drop Rate +0,1% gem to my weapon.. Does this mean that if I for example kill 1000 monsters I get a legendary item (on average ofc)

[MaxTheDragon]

Yes, 1000 on average, or even less, since the 0,1% adds to an existing base number. The monster you fight has to have that base legendary drop figure though. If it doesn't have any legendary drops to begin with, that gem won't help:
 

Only monsters with a Class of Captain, SubBoss and King have been given a listing for a Legendary drop tier.
Game Arena Dungeon: Captains are excluded from Legendary drops.

[jagz]

I think for the price of clan skill drop bonuses, they should be permanent or at least something like 90 days or perhaps better percentage wise (and cheaper if time limit)

 

I do wonder how sales on those are going. Let's look at legendary drop rate 2% for 300 million clan points. It can take 30 days of dungeons just to accumulate that many points, and for what? There is absolutely no reason to devote that amount of time for drops that hold such little value, ESPECIALLY in comparison to the cost and the ineffectiveness of a 2% rate increase.

 

Let's look a the IM value. 300 million clan points is 150 different, 250 IM pt clan point booster boxes. Or 37500 IM points @ 250 pt boxes per 2m CP. Or over $300 USD (this includes the WP=IM pt bonus)

 

37500 IM Points, zulie wise, at 550m per 100 points = ~204 Billion zulie

 

Epic Drop bonus: 150m CP or 17750 IM pts or over $150. Or 102b. Or an obscene amount of clan point farming that will amount to nothing worthwile. You have a slightly better chance at cheap epic weps dropping, Whoopie.

 

Make these permanent. Let it be a major clan feat to earn these and be proud of having it attached to their clan forever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leonis]

jagz, if you don't think it's worth it, don't invest in to it. There's no calculator to say how many Clan Points a clan can generate, given their size and participation. You can't say it will take 30 days, and not include the size of clan you're comparing that to, or the rate they're collecting at.

 

But the effect stacks with all the medals and other effects, while it is active and 30 days is a considerable amount of time to have it, while you make use of it, you can also be gathering Clan Points towards the next 30 days as well. It's not going away the moment you learn it.

 

And putting a price to it is a bit extreme when there are so many ways for you to collect Clan Points through normal simple game play.

 

This is not the thread to be even discussing this, because this is for help with drops. Take it to the appropriate section please.

[jagz]

Direct relation to the aforementioned drop gems, Leo. That's what triggered me to post about that. Surely you can see some relation.  I'm just saying these can be made more attractive options. I don't think you can check this, but how many clans have those skills learned, especially the epic and legendary? I'd wager 0. No fun.

 

A drop table suggestion / drop mechanics thread would fit this much better I agree. Happy birthday ya nut.

 

 

 

 

 

[Leonis]

I can check that, but there's no point to it as the Clan Skill update is only just about to reach it's 3rd month of being an available feature.
These skills weren't intended to be immediate investments, they're there for the long term and hardcore players.

 

Again, if you don't see the value, don't invest in to it.

[Feuer]

jagz, if you don't think it's worth it, don't invest in to it. There's no calculator to say how many Clan Points a clan can generate, given their size and participation. 

 

1: Why would you release content with the expectation that it could be objectively looked at as 'not worth it' OR tell people to not play in a sense by not participating in it?

2: If there is no 'calculator' to that exists to say how many points a clan can generate, how did the staff come to the values that they did in the first place?

 

This is the worst kind of self defense I've seen. 

[Leonis]

1: Why would you release content with the expectation that it could be objectively looked at as 'not worth it' OR tell people to not play in a sense by not participating in it?

2: If there is no 'calculator' to that exists to say how many points a clan can generate, how did the staff come to the values that they did in the first place?

 

This is the worst kind of self defense I've seen. 

Not everyone will agree that everything has a great value to it. It is there as an option, no one is forcing it upon you.

 

And try not to take only the part of the conversation to use for your own sake. Do you have a calculator? Do you know the actual rates players can generate points accurately? It's all estimated based on metric data collected. That doesn't mean we can't estimate or set values based on what we design or want.

 

And my statement is about investing, not participating. Not everyone will want to get in to every aspect of a game, but that doesn't mean they can't enjoy themselves otherwise through other features. The skills were created for the hardcore, highly active and largely cooperative clan. A clan of 100 members would have no problem collecting that many points, if they really wanted it and were highly active to get it. That's it, nothing more.

 

This isn't defending, this is stating fact behind it's design. Obviously you and others would like the effect, because it is a bonus. Well, you know what's needed to get it, and if you don't feel it's worth it, that's your call.

 

There are clans that have learned the drop bonus skills, so I have no doubt that the effects are valued by players.

[Feuer]

"try not to take only the part of the conversation to use for your own sake."

I took the relevant statement you made to construct my response, using your entire statement which includes portions not relevant would only clutter the response.

 

"Do you have a calculator? Do you know the actual rates players can generate points accurately?"

I did not claim to have one, nor did I imply I have one. My question was do you? As you stated 'no calculator exists'. Nor have I made the implication that I know the rates at which players can generate points. 

 

"It's all estimated based on metric data collected. That doesn't mean we can't estimate or set values based on what we design or want."

Estimated based on what metric data? The prices were set prior to an in depth test with the entire community at large. You can estimate all you want, no one person here is objecting to your ability to do that, what is being objected is the fact that since release no conclusive data has been collected AND provided for the community to draw accurate conclusions from. 

 

"The skills were created for the hardcore, highly active and largely cooperative clan."

What constitutes as 'hardcore', 'highly active' or 'largely cooperative'? These are the questions we have. What definition did you conclude, based on what gathered data were these terms drawn to determine cost appropriate prices that were used to determine the required investment? 

 

"A clan of 100 members would have no problem collecting that many points, if they really wanted it and were highly active to get it."

Again, based on what data? You yourself claimed in the aforementioned that it was all based on estimation. How can you state as fact with the assumption we as a consumer can understand the underlying processes are fair when you cannot provide even the slightest inclination of factual premises both before hand and after implementation of this cost or investment system? I can only conclude that you did not have a factual premises at any time before hand or after the fact to justify these prices, and should take into account the protest of your consumers that these prices are not justified. Especially when you clearly demonstrate that the skills are only achievable, by those who are 'hardcore' investors. This seems to me to be a bias system of investment and only rewards a certain and very small portion of your community. 

 

"Obviously you and others would like the effect, because it is a bonus."

No one here claimed that they desired the effect. They're simply sharing their belief that the system is not justified in its cost. You're assuming you know every minor detail of what we desire as a consumer, when at no point was it obvious that we simply desire it for nothing more than a convenient bonus. 

 

"There are clans that have learned the drop bonus skills, so I have no doubt that the effects are valued by players."

And of which % of those clans and players the top currency holding clans. 

And aside from that question, the simple act of learning the passive doesn't justify that it's fair. That only clearly demonstrates a curiosity or potential consideration of value. Only the consistent and recurring purchase of these skills would clearly demonstrate an upheld value by the community. And only in a certain, targeted percentage of the community capable of this 'hardcore' investment. 

 

All in all, what is being debated here is the simple objection that the price is not a fair standard for all. Many have already theorized methods to resolve this issue, including I who suggested that the cost be relative to the clans roster capacity. Why should only 1 selective few be able to afford these bonuses? Doing that only alienates and displaces those who cannot afford them. Alienating a majority of an already small community is the choice that could potentially lead to shooting yourself in the foot. And what is being asked here is in my opinion perfectly fair. That the costs be re-evaluated based on relevant and conclusive data since the clan update was implemented. Even a simple acknowledgement that you will take it upon advisement from your consumer base would suffice in stifling the situation to perform those calculations and derive a conclusion in a reasonable time. 

 

It's not complicated. You're making it complicated because you feel we're somehow questioning your knowledge or ability to properly manage something, when the fact is we're asking that something that never existed, be regulated and maintained until a level of fairness is achieved. It's not personal, it's purely us, your customers, expressing concern for something we value. And what we value is fairness, proper reward for relevant effort. 

Edited by Feuer, 30 July 2015 - 05:00 PM.

[Leonis]

Having a skill's cost be based on roster size wouldn't work, because you could just have everyone leave the clan, as it costs nothing to do so, purchase the skill, then re-invite everyone just so you could get that "discount." Gamers have the tendency to find the minutia that gives them an edge to exploit, rather than just play as intended. Many, if not most, developers have to struggle with this where their most basic design intentions, get circumvented by the creative mind of players who simply seek the fastest way towards the goal of whatever may be at the end of the road.

 

I'm not making anything complicated, I offered the simple statement over why we put the cost as it is. Why you continue to question it, rather than just accepting it, is your choice.

However, the suggestions are still welcome feedback, but at this time, it isn't something we're looking to change. There are greater things we have our attention turned to right now and the Clan update is still being enjoyed by most.

 

So again, my statement is: If it isn't something you find value to invest in to, don't. Much of our efforts leaves game play choices up to the players to decide and partake in. While we do try to make them fun and attractive, the ultimate choice to use it, is not ours to make.

 

[Feuer]

I'll restate my suggestion so you understand it properly this time. 

 

Maximum Roster Size [aka the expansion skill] automatically increases the cost of the temporary bonus effect. Meaning, the larger the clans maximum potential, the more expensive the cost is for the bonus. It should be a fair amount of effort from each individual to maintain the benefits, not based on a max scenario and if you don't like it than go stuff off attitude. 

 

And I tend to not accept things that don't make any sense, much like a rape victim doesn't just lay down and accept it when it doesn't make sense. It's the human condition to question the way things are, particularly when they don't add up. 

 

I know your tactics Leonis, you've used them on me far too many times for me not to recognize the signs when you're trying to subvert something. You failed to acknowledge the entire fact that you based 100% of the costs on estimation, and have done nothing at all to check if those estimations were accurate.

Nor do you even attempt to refute why you shouldn't need to. And yet here we are, saying it's not fair for the people who aren't your hardcore investors, we're being alienated, and we want something that's based on accurate data and is fair for ALL players.

You're openly stating you don't care about the community, only the ones who are willing to invest everything they have, including time, to get a bonus that guess what, isn't even worth the means. It's not cost effective for what it does award in return. 

 

So you can try to misdirect and confabulate the topic in an effort to dismiss the entire topic as just chit chat all you want, I'm not buying it. It's classic misdirection at it's finest, and until you truly answer the questions, then nothing you say carries any weight. 

[jagz]

 They're simply sharing their belief that the system is not justified in its cost. You're assuming you know every minor detail of what we desire as a consumer, when at no point was it obvious that we simply desire it for nothing more than a convenient bonus. 

 

This is all I was going for, but to receive the standard if you don't want it, don't buy it.

 

I was trying to compare it's cost + usefulness, which equates to a futile investment.

 

I can +10% PvM Attack for a mere 12.5m CP. That's a hell of a gain. Or for the low low price of 24 times that can I have legendary drop rate 2%.

 

Just wanted to suggest that the drop rate clan skills are astronomical compared to the much more useful stat increasers and such. At least make me weigh purchasing it! Instead of laughing at it.

 

 

 

 

 

[borgahutt]

This is all I was going for, but to receive the standard if you don't want it, don't buy it.

I was trying to compare it's cost + usefulness, which equates to a futile investment.

I can +10% PvM Attack for a mere 12.5m CP. That's a hell of a gain. Or for the low low price of 24 times that can I have legendary drop rate 2%.

Just wanted to suggest that the drop rate clan skills are astronomical compared to the much more useful stat increasers and such. At least make me weigh purchasing it! Instead of laughing at it.

I kinda agree...

I don't think the amount of clan points required to get the skill is a problem ...

It's the fact that it only lasts 30 days compared to other skills, I believe most items etc in this game are easily obtainable if you want it

Imo it should be a permanent skill but for a HUGE amount of clan points , say there could be a permanent drop skill for a half decent percentage but at a ton of points - seems quite a lot compared to other 30 day skills in comparison of its effect - like you was saying at the not so crazy amount for a high Pvp offence %
If it was permanent and maybe 200million points - more understandable - but not for 30 days

[Feuer]

The best part, is that if there were clans actively farming CP as 'hardcore' as they say they intended them to be, the GA Modes would lag out so frequently + possibly crash the game server so often, that people who aren't even involved would start considering the option of leaving. The server + engine can't even handle that type of load stress.. 6 CoU's, 1 SoD, and 2 AA's with maybe 1-2 SC's and the GA Modes start to lag + crash out. You really expect it to handle 30 COU's, 20 SC's and 10-15 SoD/HoO while the AA's are running? Get real...