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#1 Nadesh

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 03:33 PM

Here i retake some ideas i post in the old forum, hopefully to improve them. The old thread was A few skill changes

Nadesh - 5/31/2010 12:18 PM

"(...)The traps should be affected by stats, not only to make defense have a meaning but also to help avengers to dont get stuck in the same dmg.

Traps could deal long range dmg, that way they would be affected by dex, long range defense and physical dmg. Probably they could lose hp when they need to add physical dmg or crit to the jewels but there is when the 2nd part of the suggestion enter.

Avengers should focus in traps and the captured monters, but atm the only capture monster that worth is the last one and only for pve: for pvp it last until the Avenger die."


How is it now:

Capturing Low Level Monster: lvl 10~37, capture beast type monsters lvl â?¤10 ~ â?¤37
Capturing Medium Level Monster: lvl 50~77, capture beast, plant and fairy type monsters lvl â?¤50 ~ â?¤77
Capturing High Level Monster: lvl 70~97, capture human/machine, elite and nightmare type monsters lvl â?¤70 ~ â?¤97

The idea is instead of have this 3 skills, with 10 skill points each, to have one and others to improve it.

How could be:

Capturing Monster: lvl 40~67 skill capture beast type monsters, same lvl (or lower) as the caster.

The captured monster should always be lower or equal to the player lvl, no matter the skill lvl.

-Lvl 40~67, add 5%~20% to all the monster stats and 63~224 short/long range defense (values taked of Templar Divine Protection).

Tame Mastery: lvl 50~71.

-Lvl 60, can capture plant monsters. Increase monster max hp 400
-Lvl 63, can capture plant and fairy monsters. Increase monster max hp 700
-Lvl 66, can capture plant and fairy monsters. Increase monster max hp 1000
-Lvl 69, can capture plant, fairy and human/machine monsters. Increase monster max hp 1300
-Lvl 71, can capture plant, fairy, machine, elite and nightmare monsters. Increase monster max hp 1600

The mastery also could increse some of the monster stats.

Rise Monster: lvl 50~71. This skill let the player summon the last captured monster. When a player capture a monster, it get registered in this skill. Once the monster is destroyed, the player can re-summon it.

-Lvl 60, hp recovery upon resurrection 50%
-Lvl 63, hp recovery upon resurrection 70%
-Lvl 66, hp recovery upon resurrection 80%
-Lvl 69, hp recovery upon resurrection 90%
-Lvl 71, hp recovery upon resurrection 100%

(edited): a little change in the % of hp, went from 20%~100% to 50%~100%. The reason is because there isnt a heal monster skill in the Hunter/ Avenger skill tree, and then the start hp shouldnt be so low.

Keep in mind that this is only an idea, and if i post it here is to let other people to improve it.

As a side note, the Dominator's pets should lvl in a similar way: the lvl of the monster based on the lvl of the skill it will always put the character in a hard position in specifics points of the game, because the pet is always one step behind of the caster.

The pets stats should be defined for the player lvl and not for the skill lvl. The skill lvl should only give additional bonuses to the pet: like extra % of stats, defense, hp, dmg, etc.

Related threads:
Dominators: pet control and pet skills
Illusion.
Dominator: Skills Ideas

Edited by Nadesh, 01 August 2010 - 05:06 AM.

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#2 RumHoney

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:21 PM

So is this meant to help because traps are defensive and pets are meatshields in pvp. Its a nice idea but it does not help avengers
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#3 Nadesh

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 03:29 AM

The thing is that most Avengers go for hp, and dont put so much dmg. The why is because the traps arnt affected by stats: have fixed dmg but can crit and defense dont reduce the dmg taked.

At the first look that is cool, but what happen when the cap get rised and some classes get even more hp? But dont need to go far to test it, how good are the mines in Strongest?

The point is that if they make the traps affected by stats and reduce the traps base dmg to dont make them so oped, then the players could get even more powerful traps than they have. But like for other classes, the cost is tons of lost hp.

Now, if that happen, they will have good dmg but low hp, and for a class that must stay still to hit, isnt that good. To help with that, Avengers have the pets, and were always intended to be the shield for them.

Having good dmg, but lower hp, and a working pet (this suggestion + the suggestion about the pet bar improve) would make the class much more interesting.
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#4 RumHoney

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 12:45 AM

Ok but with lower hp they will be easy picking for rangers, eles, SR, and a smart mage that why most have dex, con an hp... pets wont last but few secs in pvp even if they add your idea plus if stats affect traps an the base dmg is gimp then traps will be worthless with lvl raise

Edited by RumHoney, 13 August 2010 - 01:04 AM.

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#5 Nadesh

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 03:38 AM

No they wont. I said that they should rebalance the traps to make them affected by stats, that could mean a base dmg reduction, but maybe not. If they work on the traps to be affected by stats, then, of course, they must test them, and make them decent: i doubt that the traps would do less dmg.

About the captured monsters: they would get hp, defense, and other bonuses with this idea, so they wouldnt die so fast. And with the chance of rise them again, it wouldnt be a one time use in pvp.

In any case, the lost of hp would always be an option, something that people sacrifice to get higher dmg. I think is unfair that a class can have good dmg without the need to sacrifice anything, and in the same road, that a class cant get better because their dmg is fixed.

Most mages said the same at the start of S2: we said that the dmg would be too low, because the base was lower, but their dmg got much better than before.
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#6 RumHoney

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 10:08 AM

well avengers dont have a buff for stats like rangers,or mages to top out their dgm more the only stat thats can boost range dgm is dex and to focus on that will will leave them gimp on hp. i like your idea but it still need to be tweak more or they change the game again
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#7 Nadesh

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 02:28 PM

Of course, the dmg should be affected like the others: some said that the trap dmg should be fire dmg, others said that should be phyisical dmg; and some said that should be long range dmg and others said that should be short range dmg. The point is that with traps that are affected with stats, avengers could deal even more dmg to mages but less to melees, wich in the end is fair, they work for their defense.

Having things that just ignore defense is too op, but in the long range is also underpowered: when the lvls are higih enough, and the hp is high enough to make it worthless, like tempests ground aoes were in S1.

But the thread isnt so much about how to rebalance the traps but how to make the captured monsters more useful.

The points are:

- Summon/capture monsters that work over mobs of x lvl (or summon mobs of x lvls) isnt very useful, since the players will have gaps each 3 lvls, in wich those pets will be less useful. Then, the pets should always have the same lvl as the caster (and in the case of the captured monter, same lvl or lower).

- The summon/capture skills should give bonuses to the pets instead of only increase the lvl of the monsters (or lvl of the captured monster).

- In the particular case of the captured monsters, they should have a way of be re-summonded, to make them useful in pvp but also when the player is in an area with higher lvl mobs or in a dungeon or raid.
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#8 RumHoney

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 05:51 PM

Pet idea is very good and the tame mastery makes it better this i can see... i still see there can be a better idea for traps
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#9 Nadesh

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:48 AM

Sure sure, the point of the thread wasnt about traps, we had a long thread in the old forum about that and we didnt got any final idea. I mention traps, because if they make them affected by stats, then, they should fix the captured monsters, because avengers would lose lots of hp if that happen.
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#10 sonemere

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 01:13 PM

Sure sure, the point of the thread wasnt about traps, we had a long thread in the old forum about that and we didnt got any final idea. I mention traps, because if they make them affected by stats, then, they should fix the captured monsters, because avengers would lose lots of hp if that happen.


i remember this it was over 10 pages lol. i remember the best ideas i heard were to make them affected by long range def and have Skill/Physical critical additional affect their trap crits. theoretically if they are affected by lr def anyone can half a traps damage and the additional damage will balance them out to where they were near the orginal damages but not quite. later in the endgame there traps would increase in damage and not make them useless after 70. i feel this would make it so ppl couldnt complain if they didnt invest in lr def and makes avengers not so def ignoring crazy.

ë?? 이ê²?이 10 í??이ì§? 이ì? LOL 이ì??죠. ë??ë?? ìµ?ê³ ì? ì??이ë??ì?´ë¥¼ ë?´ê°? ë?¤ì?´ë³¸ 기ì?µì´ ê·¸ë?¤ì´ ì?¥ê±°ë¦¬ 데í??ì? ì?í?¥ê³¼ 기ì? ì? / ì²´ì?¡ ì¤?ì??í?? ì¶?ê°?적인 ê·¸ë?¤ì? í?¨ì ? crits ì?í?¥ì? ê°?ì§?ê³ í??ê²?ë?ì??ì?µë??ë?¤. ê·¸ë?¤ì? ì?ì??ì²?ë?¼ lr 데í?? ë??구ë¡? í?  ì?? ì ?ë°? í?¸ë?© ì?ì? 및 ì¶?ê°? í?¼í?´ë¥¼ ì?í?¥ì?ë°?ë?? ê²½ì?°ì?ë?? 이론적ì?¼ë¡? ê·¸ë?¤ì´ ì?´ë??ì? ì?ë??ì? ì?í?´ë?? ì??ë??ì§?ë§? ì??주 ê°?ê¹?이 ì??ì?? ê·¸ë?¤ì? ë°?ì?¼ë¡? ê· í??ì? ê²?ì??ë??ë?¤. ë??ì¤?ì? ìµ?ì¢? 목í?? 거기ì? í?¨ì ?이 ì?ì?ì?ì?? 증ê°?ì??í?¬ ê²?ì??ë??ë?¤ ê·¸ë?¤ì´ í?? 70 ì?¸ëª¨ ë§?ë?¤ ì?? ì??ì?µë??ë?¤. ê·¸ë?¤ì? ì?ì??ì²?ë?¼ lr 데í??ì? í?¬ì?í??ë?? ê²½ì?°ì?? ì ?í?? ê·¸ë ?ê²? 데í??ë?? 미ì¹? 무ì?? Avengers ì??í??ê²? 이건 ë??무 ppl ì??ì??ë?¤ í? ê±°ë¼ ì?ê° ë¶?í?.

Edited by sonemere, 20 August 2010 - 01:25 PM.

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#11 Nadesh

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 01:18 PM

Pluss, people ignore that if the traps were affected by stats, those would have much more dmg when they use the PB, the Strongest gear or have the Rage buff in svs.

Edited by Nadesh, 20 August 2010 - 01:18 PM.

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#12 sonemere

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 01:21 PM

Pluss, people ignore that if the traps were affected by stats, those would have much more dmg when they use the PB, the Strongest gear or have the Rage buff in svs.


they would have to only be affected by additional damages or it would be massacres. affected by stats and u can kiss svs tbf goodbye. the lag would be unfreakin real all those ppl flyin in the air.

btw luv the pet ideas :p_devil:

Edited by sonemere, 20 August 2010 - 01:24 PM.

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#13 RumHoney

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 02:26 PM

so why not see if we can come with a better idea to make traps work for all and not gimp the avenger class
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#14 MeCCa

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 03:09 PM

If traps are affected by lr+dex that would just amp up rangers.Imo traps should be removed from rangers tree once they are affected by stats,cuz atm vengers only have 2 exclusive traps. Pet capture should be removed or added to domis skill tree
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#15 sonemere

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Posted 25 August 2010 - 03:48 PM

If traps are affected by lr+dex that would just amp up rangers.Imo traps should be removed from rangers tree once they are affected by stats,cuz atm vengers only have 2 exclusive traps. Pet capture should be removed or added to domis skill tree


explosion trap and guided should just go to 5 for hunter tree. then explosion trap go to 15 for avenger. same as kaz for domi.

just my opinion but i still think traps should only be affected by CAD + SCAD and lr def. for the soul reason rangers dont need anymore help. i completely agree that the stats themselves dont need to affect traps damage. they just wouldnt be needed. someone help me out thats an avenger and let me know their critical additional damage & skill critical additional damage. add that to trap damages when they crit and factor in lr def and they will end up being quite balanced compared to endgame other chars. an noone could whine abt them if they are affected by lr def. the person just didnt invest in the enchantin of their armors with lr def.

simple formula for avenger trap fix:(pls send to developers)

((trap damage*2) * % damage reduction from long range defense) + ((.5*critical additional damage) + skill critical additional damage)

ë³´ë³µì? í?¨ì ?ì? ë??í?? ê°?ë?¨í?? ì??ì?ì? ì??ì ? : (pls ê°?ë°?ì?ë¡? ë³´ë?´ì£¼ì?­ì??ì?¤)

ì?ê±°ë¦¬ ë°©ì??ì?ì?? ((í?¸ë?©ì? ì?ì? * 2) * % í?¼í?´ 감ì??) + ((0.5 * ì¤?ì?? ì¶?ê°? ì?ì?) + ì?¤í?¬ ì¤?ì??í?? ì¶?ê°? í?¼í?´)
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#16 RumHoney

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 06:23 AM

explosion trap and guided should just go to 5 for hunter tree. then explosion trap go to 15 for avenger. same as kaz for domi.

just my opinion but i still think traps should only be affected by CAD + SCAD and lr def. for the soul reason rangers dont need anymore help. i completely agree that the stats themselves dont need to affect traps damage. they just wouldnt be needed. someone help me out thats an avenger and let me know their critical additional damage & skill critical additional damage. add that to trap damages when they crit and factor in lr def and they will end up being quite balanced compared to endgame other chars. an noone could whine abt them if they are affected by lr def. the person just didnt invest in the enchantin of their armors with lr def.

simple formula for avenger trap fix:(pls send to developers)

((trap damage*2) * % damage reduction from long range defense) + ((.5*critical additional damage) + skill critical additional damage)

ë³´ë³µì? í?¨ì ?ì? ë??í?? ê°?ë?¨í?? ì??ì?ì? ì??ì ? : (pls ê°?ë°?ì?ë¡? ë³´ë?´ì£¼ì?­ì??ì?¤)

ì?ê±°ë¦¬ ë°©ì??ì?ì?? ((í?¸ë?©ì? ì?ì? * 2) * % í?¼í?´ 감ì??) + ((0.5 * ì¤?ì?? ì¶?ê°? ì?ì?) + ì?¤í?¬ ì¤?ì??í?? ì¶?ê°? í?¼í?´)


it would work if cad and scad work every time traps was use but those are random. so that
wont work with since they arent Lr, the best thing to do is keep hunters traps at lvl 5 until they become a avenger and change traps from being static to work more with the avengers lvl because if lvl cap gros they can still be helpful to them
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#17 Nadesh

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:32 AM

They always could down the base dmg and rise it with an avenger trap mastery.
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#18 MeCCa

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:38 AM

no just delete it from hunter tree, u dont see venger with ++ range or ++ dmg buffs do u? why should a ranger walk around with traps
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#19 Salubri

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:41 AM

no just delete it from hunter tree, u dont see venger with ++ range or ++ dmg buffs do u? why should a ranger walk around with traps


`this
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#20 RumHoney

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:45 AM

no just delete it from hunter tree, u dont see venger with ++ range or ++ dmg buffs do u? why should a ranger walk around with traps



well if they do that then newbs wont have any idea what traps are for until they get to 2nd job so it best not to move them .... rangers can also use pets but its a low lvl same can be done for traps

Edited by RumHoney, 26 August 2010 - 08:46 AM.

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#21 MeCCa

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:53 AM

well then if they dont add ++ range buff or +dmg buffs to the hunter tree, the newbs wont know about them b4 2nd job... and ofc we all know how useful pet capture is... venger is a bomber not a dominator
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#22 Loyalty1

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:55 AM

NEW skill: Capture Turan girl.

Special skills:

- Provoke

- Bunny hopping

- Charm Druid
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#23 Salubri

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 08:57 AM

NEW skill: Capture Turan girl.

Special skills:

- Provoke

- Bunny hopping

- Charm Druid


:lol:
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#24 Nadesh

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 09:23 AM

Most people that dont agree with traps being affected by stats and be long range dmg, dont take in account that avengers have 2 nice skills to reduce defense, and with the defense down xeon, they will get a very good trap dmg.

Edited by Nadesh, 26 August 2010 - 10:04 AM.

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#25 Salubri

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 09:28 AM

edited crap

Edited by Salubri, 26 August 2010 - 09:29 AM.

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