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[Renewal] Current State of WoE TE


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#1 Schitter

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 10:23 PM

I would have a question about WoE Timing for TE WoE >.<

Could we have it set to a duration of 2 hrs?

 

 

Oh and if u cud change the WoE Time to +1 Hrs or so >.<  wed love chu

 

 

 

And when ur at it:

- CP arround 5x5 Cells from every Portal to be Casted (or 10x10... juist that it doesnt cover the Portal when entering a Castle!

 

 

 

How about exchanging WoE 1.0 castles for WoE 2.0 castles instead? I don't think trying to do a double or triple CP team would be as effective on WoE 2.0 maps. For me, CP + bomb + being hitlocked + ro being so laggy was what really killed WoE: TE. 

 
 

 

 

I liked tht idea >.<


Edited by Schitter, 14 November 2014 - 12:44 PM.

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#2 ShoLin

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 05:59 AM

The 2 hours is fine

 

CP is working as it should, it's not bugged in any way.


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#3 Myzery

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 08:33 AM

It makes for boring game play.

 

 

 

 


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#4 Schitter

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 11:47 AM

 

- CP arround 5x5 Cells from every Portal to be Casted

 

 

 

 

My bad :

 

- Disable CP arround 5x5 Cells from every Portal to be Casted or the skill itself


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#5 ShoLin

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 03:41 PM

I find it a harder challenge like back in the old days. One thing I haven't seen anyone complain about is portal casting recall to avoid the CP.


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#6 Pred

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 08:35 AM

I'm all for starting it an hour later.  It's a fun WoE, and would be even more fun with more people there for it.

 

I wouldn't go later than an hour though.  If we change the time by starting it 2 hours later, then also make TE two hours long, we start bumping up against Classic WoE2 (Renewal TE would end just as Classic WoE2 is starting).  Starting TE just 1 hour later gives the flexibility of making it go 2 hours long without bumping up against Classic WoE2 (starting at the same time, but adding 1 hour to the end), and without having to change the start time (starting 1 hour sooner, but ending at the same time).

 

If we're going to change the time to something later than that, we should have another community poll on it.  Maybe something where the results are hidden during the poll by using Survey Monkey like what Ralis uses for his weekly puzzle contest.  This prevents people piling on votes on the option that's "winning" simply because they don't want to waste their vote, and would rather settle on one "winning" time over the other.

 

Could do it using two checkbox questions and let people select all the ones they want:  "What day do you want TE?", "What time do you want TE to start?"  And one identifying question to try to prevent duplicate voting: "What's your WarpPortal account email address?"  Could also make it one checkbox question with all the day/time combinations, this way the GMs can only put in the options that they'd be willing to do (ie. not overlapping another WoE, or starting 1-2 hours before another WoE, or during maintenance, or whatever).


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#7 Schitter

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 01:11 PM

I agree with Pred :D 

Its important that there is at least a 1 hour gap Time between the Classic SE WoE and the Renewal TE WoE. 

Would it be possible to have another Vote on the WoE Timing for TE WoE?  And having it 2 hours duration might make it more interesting aswell  ^_^


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#8 Andini

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 07:25 PM

pretty much what pred said.  if there is a poll, there is absolutely no way the public can see the results prior to the poll closing.  i think having woe 2 castles or even just one woe 2 castle open would be a nice addition if there is an ability to implement that realistically, although not sure how that would work in terms of treasures/etc.  it would possibly create a nice segway even though both woes are drastically different if someone liked TE or classic SE to try the other and vice versa


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#9 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 07:35 PM

dont try to fix whats not broken >.<

lol lol lol


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#10 Pred

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 05:20 AM

CP isn't broken, and it does not need to be nerfed.  Yes, it's a very powerful tool that can make or break a defense, but there are multiple ways to counter it.  Guilds just need to learn to coordinate their offense better.  Maybe it requires a change to a guild's strategy, or class layout, but the GMs shouldn't nerf a skill simply because some people refuse to take the necessary steps to counter it.


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#11 Myzery

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 06:02 AM

CP makes people lazy and encourages people to do nothing but defend.

It also encourages people to find alternative methods for getting around it that aren't "legal"

Anyone who has played this game for a long time knows that a far weaker force can be triumphant in holding off someone much more powerful through the use of CP.

 

I don't think it should be disabled either, but I think Schitter's idea would make things a lot more interesting.

Portal CPs are much too powerful for something you can pretty much afk.


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#12 ShoLin

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 06:45 AM

No they are not, you've been spoiled far too much. I remember dealing with triple or quad CP in pre re.

 

For people that need to do illegal things to by pass it, sorry but you are sad and don't know how to play. It's no wonder why people have to cheat to even attempt to win, they are bad and can't coordinate.

 

What's a even better feeling is beating the cheaters.

 

Do triple, CP the whole emp, yourself and see how much I will care.


Edited by ShoLin, 14 October 2014 - 06:49 AM.

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#13 Myzery

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 07:22 AM

I'm not spoiled, I'm being real.

Back in the day when there was blanketed CPs, yes, but there were also way more people playing.

Things are balanced around a healthy population and alliances laying siege to defenders.

 

With the number of people that actually attend WoE TE, it's just a cake walk when it comes to defending.

I'm in no way putting down the people who do it. It just needs to be looked at.

 


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#14 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 09:43 AM

working as intended case closed

 

thread has derailed long enough should close :) lol


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#15 ShoLin

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 07:01 AM

I'm not spoiled, I'm being real.

Back in the day when there was blanketed CPs, yes, but there were also way more people playing.

Things are balanced around a healthy population and alliances laying siege to defenders.

 

With the number of people that actually attend WoE TE, it's just a cake walk when it comes to defending.

I'm in no way putting down the people who do it. It just needs to be looked at.

 

I played on sakray which had similar numbers to TE woe we have now. We still beat blanketed CP.

 

Foremost, even before looking at mundane topic like this we should be looking at the people that are cheating first. I'm going to leave the guild name out.
 


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#16 iamvrypwrful

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Posted 15 October 2014 - 09:24 AM

CP isn't broken, and it does not need to be nerfed.  Yes, it's a very powerful tool that can make or break a defense, but there are multiple ways to counter it.  Guilds just need to learn to coordinate their offense better.  Maybe it requires a change to a guild's strategy, or class layout, but the GMs shouldn't nerf a skill simply because some people refuse to take the necessary steps to counter it.

 

The only way to lose pre casting with a CP is by massively -_- up or being out numbered.

 

If guilds fight at relatively even numbers it's pretty difficult to lose with a couple CP's and numerous wizards. 


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#17 RoseRed21

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 10:15 PM

 I agree with Pred. WoE TE time needs to be bumped up. Honestly not many people are able to attend this woe due to it being too freaking early in the morning. The time should also not conflict with classic times as well. Some adjustments really do need to be done here.  :p_smile:


Edited by RoseRed21, 19 October 2014 - 10:16 PM.

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#18 Pred

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:45 AM

As for nerfing CP...

 

After this Sunday's TE, I still stand by my statement that CP doesn't need changing.  We just as easily defended Gloria 4 WITH a CP, as we did WITHOUT.  When we defended without a CP, we only lost ground because we were aggressive and pushed out all the way to room 3, allowing one of the attacking guilds to portal recall behind us into the emp room forcing us to recall and (successfully) defend the emp platform against Tanukis, Redemption, and Antarctic, in a 3v1 situation... Again, without CP.

 

CP isn't the problem, and doesn't need to be nerfed.  A guild that's organized well enough on offense should be able to defeat a CP team without simply throwing more people at the problem.  From what we saw in our Gloria 4 defense this past TE, the problem lies in organization.  We noticed the opposition making a ton of mistakes, and used those mistakes to our advantage.  We're not going to hold the server's hands and walk anyone through how to do it, so put on your thinking caps and figure it out.  If you need us to tell you what exactly you're doing wrong, and how to fix it...  well that certainly explains a lot.

 

Protip:  We already found a few ways to counter CP, and tried one of them awhile ago.  It was quite successful, and we were about even in terms of numbers with the defense.  So quit telling yourselves it's impossible, because it's not.  And no, you don't need any kind of cheat to do it either.  Just think, and be willing to adjust, and you'll be able to counter a CP defense.


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#19 Myzery

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:18 AM

The only way to lose pre casting with a CP is by massively -_- up or being out numbered.

 

If guilds fight at relatively even numbers it's pretty difficult to lose with a couple CP's and numerous wizards. 

 

This still rings true.

 

 

Your competition is just overwhelmed by numbers.

There's no secret CP breaking tactic. On equal grounds with 0 -_- ups, you won't counter it.

This was the case back when Jerome's guild was defending. Animosity couldn't make it off the door.


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#20 Pred

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:05 AM

When we were fighting Reign Supreme, the portal CP hampered us for the first WoE we attacked them.  After that the CP was not even an issue anymore, it was our inability to find solid ground in that emp room to set up.  Reign Supreme did an excellent job of disrupting us.  Their portal CP was ineffective against us, it was our lack of ground control on offense that made those rushes unsuccessful.

 

You can counter CP without needing to rely on the defense messing up, without simply overwhelming them with numbers, and without any kind of cheating.  We've done it before (and not just against Reign Supreme), anyone else can too.


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#21 Myzery

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 09:39 AM

I was there, I know.

It was more than one WoE. The CP stopped you from advancing.

They were sacced and pretty much wouldn't die, along with bombs littering the way.

The solution was to have a lot of people make new characters because it just wasn't working.

You never really made any ground and RS ended up burning their own econ.

 

Tell me one instance in WoE TE where you broke a competent guild with near equal numbers that had a solid defence utilizing a CP.

 

Even with uneven numbers, you're known to have multiple guids attacking a single guild that's on the losing side of the numbers game.

In fact, I have seen a few videos where Smokies held your guild off due to a decent precast.

Even though they had half your numbers, they held until your backup arrived.

 

 

I'm just stating facts here and experience.


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#22 Schitter

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 11:16 AM

I must say, what Mzery is saying is true. 

With Strategy you wont break a CP Precast... My goal wasnt to disable CP Skill more to Enable Training to WoE as it should be, not Farming a Server as cerain Guild love todo to obtain valuables without even... well


Point is that GvGing against a CP Precasted Guild you will need twice the amount of pepole. One CP adds to your advantage alot especially cause theyre out of range from Portal and all Safety Walled + Sacced.

 

That alone... now consider a Guild putting up 4 CP and Precasting with 2 Guilds while 1 is coming from the back... mhm 3 vs 1?

 

 

Great... Disable CP at a Portal Range of 5x5 and than you will have a WoE TE, everything else is juist Farming a WoE where you can supply for WoE 1.0 & 2.0 at ur desire to enable esasy Supplying.

Belive me, farming Supplys trough WoE isnt whats good, and has nothing todo with Guild vs Guild Training Edition WoE TE... its a Joke


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#23 Pred

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 11:36 AM

... You do realize you just proved my point for me, right?
 

I was there, I know.
It was more than one WoE. The CP stopped you from advancing.
They were sacced and pretty much wouldn't die, along with bombs littering the way.
The solution was to have a lot of people make new characters because it just wasn't working.
You never really made any ground and RS ended up burning their own econ.


We had people switch classes to have a better layout for attacking a CP defense, that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Yes we couldn't proceed any FURTHER beyond that, but we countered the CP, we just couldn't counter RS sending people onto our ME to disrupt our casting. We had the same problems when we were attacking Redemption in Gloria 4 before we took it, and they didn't have a portal CP at all.  We needed to improve our ground control.
 
As for the numbers argument, RS outnumbered us on defense.  We only had 20-25 people showing up for those WoEs, and when we asked people in RS how many they had, they were saying 30+.  So we got past their portal CP with the numbers scale tilted in the defense's favor...
You're committing a logical fallacy by essentially saying "You couldn't break RS's defense, and RS was using a portal CP, thus portal CP is overpowered and should be nerfed."

Yes, we couldn't break Reign Supreme's defense.
No, that had nothing to do with their portal CP.


EDIT:

I must say, what Mzery is saying is true. 
With Strategy you wont break a CP Precast... My goal wasnt to disable CP Skill more to Enable Training to WoE as it should be, not Farming a Server as cerain Guild love todo to obtain valuables without even... well


Point is that GvGing against a CP Precasted Guild you will need twice the amount of pepole. One CP adds to your advantage alot especially cause theyre out of range from Portal and all Safety Walled + Sacced.
 
That alone... now consider a Guild putting up 4 CP and Precasting with 2 Guilds while 1 is coming from the back... mhm 3 vs 1?
 
 
Great... Disable CP at a Portal Range of 5x5 and than you will have a WoE TE, everything else is juist Farming a WoE where you can supply for WoE 1.0 & 2.0 at ur desire to enable esasy Supplying.

Belive me, farming Supplys trough WoE isnt whats good, and has nothing todo with Guild vs Guild Training Edition WoE TE... its a Joke


What 3v1 are you thinking of? I'm referring to the one this past WoE in the Gloria4 emp room. It sounds like you're referring to something else, because it was only Animosity defending that. We had no help from CS or Sinergia on that rush. That "guild" that was coming in from behind you was a group of Animosity members that died during the initial setup that we had gather outside the castle to push in together.

Look, portal CP is beatable. If you guys want to call it "farming the server", or call for a nerf, because you don't want to adjust then you clearly have your mind set on giving up and not making yourselves better to counter it.

I'm just going to leave it at that, continuing to post here obviously isn't going to get anywhere with that kind of mentality.

Edited by Pred, 20 October 2014 - 11:59 AM.

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#24 Myzery

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 01:02 PM

We could go back and forth all day and I still consider myself right until you prove otherwise.

 

These videos speak for themselves on how strong CP can be.

Your secret tactic is to brute force people with numbers and if that doesn't work, you get more numbers.

 

 


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#25 Toxn

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 01:08 PM

CS and Animosity are one guild didnt you know?


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