169 replies to this topic

[kschamp]

Agreed, BG could be a lot better. Tierra should be encouraged over Flavius. A wider variety of consumable rewards would also be nice.

 

Theres quite a bit of things they can put inside bg but aslong as certain things like ygg berry/seed replacements should be a no go.

[iamvrypwrful]

hp pots that don't suck

[zerowon]

ATM there is no liaison I or most anyone can go to address our issues to the gm team we have to spam the forums or there in boxes to just be heard . Concerning woe2 econ from the start they should of had the renewal feature of each time a item was made it lost Econ/def to prevent flooding .it might be too late now as mostly all high end trades involve someone offering a bryn or asprika for said item./mini/MVP card Perhaps we can reach a resolution on having a bonus to smaller teams /no alliances though game say item rewards or Econ? My view is there should be an actual bonus for me putting a 20man roster that's balanced and works well together without support from a alliance or throwing 50+ players at them and win though attrition

 

 quoting myself  what ever happened to adding a guild welcome pack cuz lets face it almost every p-server has a guild welcome pack to entice entire guilds to come compete at woe/pvm  items that need to be somewhat competitive  are left in small numbers or hard to obtain ie  slotted mids. the lucky box is not a great way for these to be in game. as most all p servers sell them for nearly 1k to 1.5k wpe though there donation shops.

 

concerning the guild cap imo most of y'all want to be forced into this like children no one will willingly say no to stacking members or running a small roster. show the gm/mod team your actually serious and lets see a few woes with y'all running 25-32 rosters the next few weeks.

[Cinquine]

I wish BG for supplies was still a thing.

[Xellie]

I wish playing RO for supplies was a real thing, levelling new members and supply hunting/farming bg at the same time isn't humanly possible right now.

 

General question that I think will improve the state of woe if we can answer it. what are the pros and cons of infinite supplies on the server as a whole (pvp/pvm/mvp), they cannot limit things like acid bombs and edps to work only on certain maps, but they can do this with sp/hp items like they have for bg.

 

The question is:

What would be the harmful impact of infinite sp items  on the game as a whole?

What would be the harmful impact of  infinite edp/bomb usage on the game as a whole?

Would having BG style blues available through other means (pvm means) be harmful?

What would be the impact of adding empty bottles to an NPC?

 

Unfortunately bg although great isn't a good way to supply. Going to throw Valhalla's supply number public (some will laugh, some will double take, some will wtf?!) to give an idea.

 

we aim for an average of 2500 potions per player per WoE.

We account for 25 players w/o WC, this means we need, 125,000 slim whites a weekend at minimum. (the key word is average, 1vits use less, pecos use more)

Blues we demand are bg farmed, but we still keep a reserve of ~ 4000 per weekend.

Acid bombs account for most of the work, aiming for 2,000 bombs per bomber, planning on having 3 bombers, that is 12,000 bombs for a single weekend. (this never plans out and is rolled over)

 

This is on the server as it is now, not that active. Valhalla is however the only guild to play aggressively through BOTH WoEs. Folks, that is why VH complains about supplies and other guilds don't. Many guilds only do part of FE if they take part at all, or just precast FE. There are also guilds that do only FE and not SE, or just precast/ninja castles in SE. This is the biggest reason WoEs lack fights. VH doesn't lack fights. Don't believe me? WoE  with us or check my stream. We are go go go 90% of WoE. 

 

So, if WoE becomes more active the supply strain will go up. I'm kind of against BG being the main/only source of supplies because it is limited in capacity, will always be botted, timezones are real and the account binding thing is actually sort of irritating to me as a leader responsible for supplying these guys. Instead of me handing them supplies, I'm expected to log on their accounts. DO NOT WANT.

It's also incredibly boring because it's farmed, buggy because people get dced if they fight, sometimes stops working, etc. tldr; eff bg.

 

The pros and cons I mentioned here are simple, pro: infinite supplies = fun fights, cons; infinite supplies messes with the rest of the game in mvp/pvp and hurts the botting economy (lol, new players don't hunt even 1/1000th of the crap needed by woe guilds)

 

Also can we get an consensus on autopot? That will make people a lot happier to know its either illegal and an enforce ban, or ok to do so everyone is equal. Ta.

[zerowon]

if its not distributed from the company to keep a even competitive environment then it should be enforced first offense = 3 week temp ban regardless of player status. it takes a human error element away from the game if i don't have to worry about watching my hp i can focus on other things going on during fights. this is why a competition manager has to be brought in to ensure fair game play  i dont understand why other major gaming organizations have one and gravity fails to realize  that this is a COMPETITIVE GAME & RULES NEED TO BE UPDATED FREQUENTLY NOT EVERY 5 YEARS.

[Xellie]

if its not distributed from the company to keep a even competitive environment then it should be enforced first offense = 3 week temp ban regardless of player status. it takes a human error element away from the game if i don't have to worry about watching my hp i can focus on other things going on during fights. this is why a competition manager has to be brought in to ensure fair game play  i dont understand why other major gaming organizations have one and gravity fails to realize  that this is a COMPETITIVE GAME & RULES NEED TO BE UPDATED FREQUENTLY NOT EVERY 5 YEARS.

 

+1

[broly4]

Autopot should have been allowed since long, it is indeed an aspect of the game, watching your HP bar and spam pots when it goes down, but is it what you want to focus on during woe, an HP bar? an HP BAR ?! HPBAR?!?! Don't you have more interesting things to do? I was once against autopot, for a long time, but then I started playing with it and it changed my whole gaming experience, I started enjoying other aspects of the game and stopped dying for stupid reasons, like forgetting to watch the HPBAR

If you check other games, you rarely have games where you must pot that much, aren't you fed up of spamming these pots and constantly checking whether it goes down or not?

 

We are getting a bit off topic tbh, and most of us are already using autopot. What needs attention is no delay, this should be instant ban!

 

Main reason of this thread is guild cap and 0 ally.

Edited by broly4, 28 October 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Viri]

We may as well all just program some really sweet bots and send them at each other at this point, huh?

[Gn1ydnu]

df

The question is:

What would be the harmful impact of infinite sp items  on the game as a whole?

What would be the harmful impact of  infinite edp/bomb usage on the game as a whole?

Would having BG style blues available through other means (pvm means) be harmful?

What would be the impact of adding empty bottles to an NPC?

 

What would be the harmful impact of infinite sp items  on the game as a whole?

 

To be honest, there already is infinite sp items on the game. Put time/efforthard pvming and then potting to get as much ranked blues as your heart desires. Put in time/effort into BG and get as many blues as your heart desires. There really is no difference between the two since they both include time/effort. As far as botting, there could be a disagreement that ends with pvm gets botted and bg gets botted. Regardless, I do believe that most PVM/BG is done by real players trying to help their guild in one way or another. 

 

What would be the harmful impact of  infinite edp/bomb usage on the game as a whole?

 

I would personally not include these in BG. I would keep bg as just hp/sp (non ygg of course). 

 

Would having BG style blues available through other means (pvm means) be harmful?

 

I do not think it would be harmful at all. BG consumables should only be usable on pvp and WoE maps. This would only help save guilds time. I would make sure to make it difficult enough so its not easily botted and make it for level 80+ players (since bg has a level restriction of 80?).

 

What would be the impact of adding empty bottles to an NPC?

 

My opinion, I rather have players buy them from an NPC then bot them. That is just my opinion though. I do believe that most things from GSB comes from real players working hard, since empty bottles are not included I do think most are botted.

 

 

 

Ideally I would like to see a mesh between the old and the new....

 

1. Lower the weight a little bit and increase the heal amount of BG whites. However, make sure that Ranked Slim Potions still weight 1 less then BG and heal for slightly more. This will give advantages to those willing to pot.

2. Have PVM activities that require party play that can supply a guild via bg rewards. I think Xellie is hinting at putting more thought into this and I would like to know her ideas.

3. Get rid of Flav BG and put TG back with Flav reward number of badges. Flav BG is farm dependent and TG naturally causes pvp. 

4. Keep bombs/edp/ygg seeds out of bg. These items need to require some team effort to make.

5. I would keep BG rewards account bound. Maybe make medals vendable though. This could be "easy zeny" for newer players and there are plenty of people willing to buy medals.

6. Players from "other" servers are use to supplying through BG. If they want to play here then this would at least be a decent way to welcome them. Don't have enough supplies from guild? Do more BG or pot fish.

 

None of this matters though if guild cap/alliance cap is still high enough to hold 224 players in a single alliance. I honestly don't see too much hope of another extended period of time with decent comp on the server. There will always be guilds and stuff, but most of the old school players (who carry the server in many ways) will be gone once 1 of the 2 major guilds left quits. No comp = no reason to log in.

Edited by Gn1ydnu, 28 October 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[broly4]

(I better not reply to some posts...getting off topic) 

 

+1 Gn1ydnu

Edited by broly4, 28 October 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[iamvrypwrful]

Autopot is almost like sports and steroids (except there are no negative side effects). There's so many people doing it without getting caught that the people who aren't using it are at a disadvantage. People will push the limits in anything competitive if they can get away with it.

 

It's pretty much legal on most pservers for the simple fact that it evens the playing field since it can't be evened through enforcement; the game evolved. 

Edited by iamvrypwrful, 28 October 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[Havenn]

autopot is so stupid, if you can't pot fast enough you lose. Part of the game.

 

If you think you're good at RO, and find yourself autopotting, just remember - you aren't.

Edited by Havenn, 28 October 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[broly4]

Whatever m8, please open a new topic for Autopot, I don't think anyone wanna debate about it here...

[Xellie]

Personally I think that autopot removes an aspect of the game. A game is just a set of rules and conditions the player must meet. Managing your HP is one of these conditions.

 

It is also part of the reason why people will not take part in iRO WoE. Either they are oldschool (3pps =bad players) mindset, or do not have access to the latest "thing". If you want to improve WoE competition you must consider all aspects of why people aren't taking part.

 

The reason I asked about infinite bomb/edp etc, is that if supplying was to be helped, through any means not just bg, then it will affect the rest of the game. Right now bottles are not infinite because it would unleash bombs across the entire game as they cannot be map restricted.

 

I believe that guildleaders (of a guild over level 13) should be able to receive supply crates instead of EXP from TIs. I also think that such guildleader characters should be able to receive tradable BG supply crates from BG.

 

As a starting point.

 

I also think old wps style rewards (points for castles / complete defenses for rewards) would be a large step toward promoting competition.  That is, you get points for holding a castle or defending it completely, and those points can be traded for things such as god item part of choice, supplies, a +9 upgrade, tokens for reseting a characters seal status, seal stones, the like.

Edited by Xellie, 28 October 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[iamvrypwrful]

The WPS and TI's are good points/suggestions.

 

Bombs/poison bottles shouldn't be infinite, it's too bad they can't make WoE-only etc. items.

[Xellie]

As a side bonus we'd get guild rankings and the like too. Server castle economy could be reset seasonally, It'd be like having an RO ladder!

 

And the process could be mostly automated, if Renouille could share the WoE data from choobs. Which would take a lot of the manual work out of it week by week.

 

regarding bombs/EDPs : what if they took those mats from the supply boxes and just gave straight up fire/acid bottles or edp?

Edited by Xellie, 28 October 2014 - 10:20 AM.

[NoxiousOrchid]

Correct me if I am wrong, but from my experience limited supplies added a level of strategy to WoE. Just flinging bombs and chugging potions as you please with no worries of running out doesn't exactly make WoE sound very fun.

[Xellie]

That currently isn't really an issue on Classic, we get free blues/whites from bg in mostly infinite amounts and idk, my guild has no issue potting up 200k slims a week. Players will forgo other aspects of the game or expectations are just higher because of people joining from "other" servers.

 

And if people didn't want to get whites, they can always just buy mastela.

Edited by Xellie, 28 October 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[NoxiousOrchid]

I see, I stopped WoEing for the most part when renewal hit.  I guess things have really changed.

[iamvrypwrful]

Correct me if I am wrong, but from my experience limited supplies added a level of strategy to WoE. Just flinging bombs and chugging potions as you please with no worries of running out doesn't exactly make WoE sound very fun.

 

What kind of strategy does this add? How does limiting supplies make woe more fun?

[Xellie]

It's supply management strategy, I guess it's more like RTS strategy.

 

I get that, I understand that and I kind of like  it but it is not for this server.

[Viri]

It would add running people out of supplies as an option for winning. Also it makes consumable management a part of the game.

 

No one likes that though they just like having the same identical fight 100x if everyone plays properly.

[broly4]

back to 2003... lets go see the alligators, it's fun, you can snip them from cliffs!

 

 

Edit:

 

On a more serious note, I know pretty well what you mean with supply management, I played 7 years on euRO/fRO, and tbh I do not want to bother about woe supplies like I did before anymore. It sure added something to WOE: those who couldn't spend that much time IG couldn't compete with those who played 14h /day, and after a while it's a spiral where a new player/guild couldn't rise quickly... etc etc You had to earn your place in all areas/aspects of the game.

 

But it's 2014, and most of us want to play this game 1 more year, it's always the last one anyway, but still, no one wants to invest that much time and effort into Classic RO, but everyone loves WOE. I come, I pay if needed, I woe, I go back doing other things. If GMs realize the potential of this and the hype around woe on pservers, they could have much more players...

Edited by broly4, 28 October 2014 - 01:04 PM.

[iamvrypwrful]

It would add running people out of supplies as an option for winning. Also it makes consumable management a part of the game.

 

No one likes that though they just like having the same identical fight 100x if everyone plays properly.

 

Yeah. Start WoE 1 hour late, pre cast, or hunt supplies for 50 hours that week is such good strategy. 

 

Rushing a pre cast is the same identical fight, the offense can play 10000x better than the defense and still lose.