Intra, a assassin member of uncrowned outplayed the BEST MONK OF RO2 without using hiding
first you know how to use a sin :3
For some reason this comment makes me LOL being "the best" in this game atm doesnt mean anything when its imbalanced to begin with.
Anyway aside from switching gears mid-battle like previously stated(which all in all can be dangerous if your not used to it) seems to be THE ONLY REAL WAY TO FIGHT MONKS, you either dps them down fast(i.e. a oneshot) or pray to rngesus they either miss or dont crit high( T2 defence runes helps).
But lets be real here thats not pvp, and the fact it comes down to who can get the oneshot first is disgusting =_=
It's my opinion that no class should be able to "one-shot" any class. Where is the fun in that? Where is the challenge? If you are able to just run around dropping people with one hit in Colo or WoE, tell me, is there any real skill in that?
I guess that would mean there would have to be balance...
- note: an example of item balance in order to test pure "class vs class" or "class item vs class item" or "class skill vs class skill."
How to kill a monk with a sin???
I hope you considered offense vs. defense balance. If you use a +20 weapon, also assume +20 on all armor parts.
Beside that, there are many false statements:
monks can one-shot:
No they don't. They have to build up their Inner Spheres to activate a G-Fist that might kill the target. That's a difference and not 'special' at all. One-shotting means that the first attack is also the killing strike (see Cross Impact below). Sure, a monk can knock the target prone to avoid counterattacks, but they are not the only class to do so.
monks have an OP defense:
Also wrong. Although they get DEF per VIT and have skills that increase the defense by 200%, the mons gear has only one half the defense value compare to Assassins and one fourth the defense compared to Warriors / Knights. Armor refinement it's based on the starting defense, so the monks "benefits" get easily eaten up by that. In the end, all three classes (monk, warrior, knight) will achieve the same 90% defense rate.
Monk's G-Fist combo isn't based on luck:
Of course it is. To complete the combo, a monk has to hit with Lightning Walk, Crushing Blow and G-Fist. One miss and the whole combo is lost. Assuming a 80% hit chance, he has a 0.83 = 51,2% chance to complete the combo. What's the crit. chance for a common assassin build these days?
Of course, hit chance might be higher because everyone prefers VIT and the game currently focusses on damage reduction, not dodge bonuses... but both things aren't set in stone. And there are different things that ruin the monk combo. A short lag, a triggered shield rune, a parried attack, an interruption by others and a hit debuff. Beside all that, this also assumes that the monk can kill with a single G-Fist to start with.
Monk's G-Fist gets other unfair bonuses:
Eternal Wound
Has a 5% tirgger chance and Heavy Tackle isn't even used.
Additional damage when <20% HP:
Doesn't matter at all. A G-Fist without that bonus already deals more than the remaining 20% HP as damage.
Otherwise we wouldn't discuss one-shots here. So it's just for PvE or "for the show".
Additional damage via Throw Spirit Sphere:
That skill isn't used often in duels (mainly Colo or WoE, when targets are distracted or "guarded")
Also keep in mind that the monk gets a permanent -10% damage debuff due to Steel Body.
More hitpoints / more dodge:
A Warrior gets 13HP per VIT and uses Defender to get a huge Parry & defense bonus.
A Knight also gets free DEF, also 2 Dodge / AGI and gets extra defense / damage reduction with the shield.
Both Warrior & Knights get a free 5% damage reduction with Aura Armor
And Beastmasters get insane amounts of HPs, even more HPs & defense with Grizzly Form
G-Fist deals an OP amount of damage:
No, but that's a bit tricky.
Knight:
Spoiler
Shield Cannon (1140%) is divided into 3 seperate hits. Although considered a 'drawback', it's likely that at the Knight scores at least a single critical hit.
1140% base +30% vs. knock down => 1482% damage => 3 hits à 494% each
1000 INT = +400% crit. bonus via Battle Tactics => 6x the damage of a normal hit
2x normal hits + 1 critical hit => 8x 494% = 3952% damage total
So an average Shield Cannon already deals more damage than a G-Fist ever could! Let's look at the skill rotation:
Shield Charge => 3sec stun
Headcrush/Bash => +1 Aura
Shield Bash => 3sec knock-down; +2 Aura
Shield Cannon => kills strike while target is knocked down
Result: The knight also has 4 step combo, the target is also disabled the whole time and both the average and maximum damage is higher. The cooldown of skills are lower and there's the Aura Mastery trigger. Yet, so much hate against monks.
Assassins:
Spoiler
A Cross Impact deals 700% damage or 2800% on a critical hit out of hide. A bit less than a monk's G-Fist.
However, there's the unique armor penetration that lowers the defense rate, resulting in a higher damage and that isn't shown in the skill description. Against any non-tank target, that works perfectly fine. Assuming a 75% base defense, 5% armor penetration result in +20% more damage. (damage throughput: 25% => 30%)
Adding these +20% to the damage to the 2800%, Assassins deal an equivalent of 3360% damage.
With 10% armor pemetration, it even goes up to an equivalent of 3920%.
And I heard some rumors about Grimtooth lately....
Result: So in more than half the cases, the first strike out of hide already deals more damage than a 4step G-Fist combo.
Rogues:
Spoiler
Although the Rogue doesn't have the armor penetration of Shadow Claw, he can use Unstable Doping.
Therefore, a rogue could achieve a +50% ATK or the preferrable +30% ATK & +20% Crit. bonus.
He can use Smoke Bomb to re-cloak and get the x2 bonus again.
On top, Dirty Plan resets ALL skills including Smoke Bomb.
And Combo Mastery allows him to cast Moonlight Dance "for free".
Result: Similar to the Assassin, but with re-hide, skill reset and a Combo Mastery trigger. Lacks of an early stun.
Priests:
Spoiler
Strictly better than a Lightning Walk, a Priest a boosted Judex can stun multiple targets for 10~15sec.
The damage output isn't much lower either:
With 1949%, a Genesis Ray already has a higher starting damage than a G-Fist and doesn't require "combo points".
Assuming a 75% defense rate, normal attacks are only 1/4th as effective in the end. Not so DoT skills.
Each trigger of a 200% Oratio therefore does an equivalent damage of 800%... and the Priest has 3 versions.
Result: Fastest stun, longest successive stun and on overall insane damage makes this class outstanding
Sorcerer:
Critical Jupitel Thunder after a Wind Crest trigger => 3584% damage
Critical Varetyr Spear after a Wind Crest trigger => 3200% damage
Result: Slow (0.6sec cast speed) disable (Frost Diver), but otherwise insane damage capabilities thanks to a broken JT cooldown.
Other classes:
The potential damage output of other classes isn't much worse.
A Critical Fireball f.e. can create an insane DoT.
When in Awake Form, noels can cast two >1000% skills in succession.
A Beastmaster has 2 disable skills, a 1300% finisher and a stackable 10% armor penetration in form of armor rip
But all of them have in common: They either lack a fast stun or can't finish the targets during the stun.
Unfair Summon Spirit Sphere:
The hardest one to judge:
To understand this one, you have to realise that once a player refined all gear parts, a monk isn't able to kill with a single G-Fist anymore.
F.e. versus Warriors ~25k damage per G-Fist should be the common case.
In order to kill the target, a monk must use Summon Spirit Sphere to reset the cooldown and repeat the combo.
BUT, this brings us to the most significant drawback: Summon Spirit Sphere has a starting cooldown of 120sec
So sure. Monks can reset the G-Fist and might easily "two-shot" Warriors and other classes in potless duels, but only if Summon Spirit Sphere is readyto use. Just heal up quickly between duels and you'll see the truth... monks won't able to kill you easily.
And that's the reason why monks really suck during WoE and that's why there aren't many left on the servers:
You'll need TWO G-Fists to kill targets and even with 40% Vigor, you have 80sec (SSS) between two attempts.
Beside that, I already mentioned that the knock down duration only lasts right after the first G-Fist. Thereafter target is able to act and can use pots while the monk casts Summon Spirit Sphere. BUT, if the target uses the new purple pots (or a Pitcher / Spray / X combo) right after the first G-Fist, how is the monk suppose to kill at all? Then, the second G-Fist won't suffice either.
So if I were to choose between a luck-based Rage Strike that can even kill miltiple targets, a lucky Cross Impact with a 5sec cooldown out of hide and a G-Fist, it surely wouldn't choose a monk.
What's positive about the monk?:
Well, beside the mentioned fact that they suffer from a high cooldown, they also have a significantly lower threat in PvE and the AoE sucks. But, there are some cases, where they shine:
1. Sporadic 1:1 situations (best without heal):
One of the main advantages of the monk is the fact that Lightning Walk has a fast animation time. That means that he usually stuns opponents before they could do the same. Against a Knight's Shield Charge or a BM's Beast Charge, the Lightning Walk will usually 'interrupt' them and 'win'. A noticable exception is a Priest's Judex, that's why duels against priests are an automatic loss for the monk.
A group of monks could be fine in WoE due to their 'first strike' capabilities. But that's true for a group of priests as well. So the higher defense of monks is the only reason, why they aren't strictly worse than priests.
1. Colo
The Colloseum still simulates the old LotS gear tokens, but uses the new stat bonuses. That means that a monk will benefit from DEF per VIT, but doesn't suffer from the downgraded armor values. Targets are usually distracted and a higher cooldown doesn't matter that much as long as you get your regular kills and you stay alive.
But how to kill a monk as an Assassin:
The trick is: Always stay behind the monk... in that way, the monk would have to turn first to attack/stun you.
Start with Cross Impact out of hide, follow up with a Shadow Assault to knock the monk down and follow with a Shadow Strike, Trigger Shadow Armor as soon as the monk stands up to buy yourself some extra time of 'immunity' and finish him with Grimtooth, Shadow Explosion & co.
During WoE, fighting monks is rather easy:
Either keep the "strike a vital point" guild skill up, so that you're able to deal more than 60k damage with a CI out of hide.
When facing a monk, use pots after the first G-Fist and use the "pierce eye" skill to make it very likely that his combo fails.
I hope you considered offense vs. defense balance. If you use a +20 weapon, also assume +20 on all armor parts.
Beside that, there are many false statements:
monks can one-shot:
No they don't. They have to build up their Inner Spheres to activate a G-Fist that might kill the target. That's a difference and not 'special' at all. One-shotting means that the first attack is also the killing strike (see Cross Impact below). Sure, a monk can knock the target prone to avoid counterattacks, but they are not the only class to do so.
monks have an OP defense:
Also wrong. Although they get DEF per VIT and have skills that increase the defense by 200%, the mons gear has only one half the defense value compare to Assassins and one fourth the defense compared to Warriors / Knights. Armor refinement it's based on the starting defense, so the monks "benefits" get easily eaten up by that. In the end, all three classes (monk, warrior, knight) will achieve the same 90% defense rate.
Monk's G-Fist combo isn't based on luck:
Of course it is. To complete the combo, a monk has to hit with Lightning Walk, Crushing Blow and G-Fist. One miss and the whole combo is lost. Assuming a 80% hit chance, he has a 0.83 = 51,2% chance to complete the combo. What's the crit. chance for a common assassin build these days?
Of course, hit chance might be higher because everyone prefers VIT and the game currently focusses on damage reduction, not dodge bonuses... but both things aren't set in stone. And there are different things that ruin the monk combo. A short lag, a triggered shield rune, a parried attack, an interruption by others and a hit debuff. Beside all that, this also assumes that the monk can kill with a single G-Fist to start with.
Monk's G-Fist gets other unfair bonuses: Eternal Wound
Has a 5% tirgger chance and Heavy Tackle isn't even used.
Additional damage when <20% HP:
Doesn't matter at all. A G-Fist without that bonus already deals more than the remaining 20% HP as damage.
Otherwise we wouldn't discuss one-shots here. So it's just for PvE or "for the show".
Additional damage via Throw Spirit Sphere:
That skill isn't used often in duels (mainly Colo or WoE, when targets are distracted or "guarded")
Also keep in mind that the monk gets a permanent -10% damage debuff due to Steel Body.
More hitpoints / more dodge:
A Warrior gets 13HP per VIT and uses Defender to get a huge Parry & defense bonus.
A Knight also gets free DEF, also 2 Dodge / AGI and gets extra defense / damage reduction with the shield.
Both Warrior & Knights get a free 5% damage reduction with Aura Armor
And Beastmasters get insane amounts of HPs, even more HPs & defense with Grizzly Form
G-Fist deals an OP amount of damage:
No, but that's a bit tricky.
Knight:
Spoiler
Shield Cannon (1140%) is divided into 3 seperate hits. Although considered a 'drawback', it's likely that at the Knight scores at least a single critical hit.
1140% base +30% vs. knock down => 1482% damage => 3 hits à 494% each
1000 INT = +400% crit. bonus via Battle Tactics => 6x the damage of a normal hit
2x normal hits + 1 critical hit => 8x 494% = 3952% damage total
So an average Shield Cannon already deals more damage than a G-Fist ever could! Let's look at the skill rotation:
Shield Charge => 3sec stun
Headcrush/Bash => +1 Aura
Shield Bash => 3sec knock-down; +2 Aura
Shield Cannon => kills strike while target is knocked down
Result: The knight also has 4 step combo, the target is also disabled the whole time and both the average and maximum damage is higher. The cooldown of skills are lower and there's the Aura Mastery trigger. Yet, so much hate against monks.
Assassins:
Spoiler
A Cross Impact deals 700% damage or 2800% on a critical hit out of hide. A bit less than a monk's G-Fist.
However, there's the unique armor penetration that lowers the defense rate, resulting in a higher damage and that isn't shown in the skill description. Against any non-tank target, that works perfectly fine. Assuming a 75% base defense, 5% armor penetration result in +20% more damage. (damage throughput: 25% => 30%)
Adding these +20% to the damage to the 2800%, Assassins deal an equivalent of 3360% damage.
With 10% armor pemetration, it even goes up to an equivalent of 3920%.
And I heard some rumors about Grimtooth lately....
Result: So in more than half the cases, the first strike out of hide already deals more damage than a 4step G-Fist combo.
Rogues:
Spoiler
Although the Rogue doesn't have the armor penetration of Shadow Claw, he can use Unstable Doping.
Therefore, a rogue could achieve a +50% ATK or the preferrable +30% ATK & +20% Crit. bonus.
He can use Smoke Bomb to re-cloak and get the x2 bonus again.
On top, Dirty Plan resets ALL skills including Smoke Bomb.
And Combo Mastery allows him to cast Moonlight Dance "for free".
Result: Similar to the Assassin, but with re-hide, skill reset and a Combo Mastery trigger. Lacks of an early stun.
Priests:
Spoiler
Strictly better than a Lightning Walk, a Priest a boosted Judex can stun multiple targets for 10~15sec.
The damage output isn't much lower either:
With 1949%, a Genesis Ray already has a higher starting damage than a G-Fist and doesn't require "combo points".
Assuming a 75% defense rate, normal attacks are only 1/4th as effective in the end. Not so DoT skills.
Each trigger of a 200% Oratio therefore does an equivalent damage of 800%... and the Priest has 3 versions.
Result: Fastest stun, longest successive stun and on overall insane damage makes this class outstanding
Sorcerer:
Critical Jupitel Thunder after a Wind Crest trigger => 3584% damage
Critical Varetyr Spear after a Wind Crest trigger => 3200% damage
Result: Slow (0.6sec cast speed) disable (Frost Diver), but otherwise insane damage capabilities thanks to a broken JT cooldown.
Other classes:
The potential damage output of other classes isn't much worse.
A Critical Fireball f.e. can create an insane DoT.
When in Awake Form, noels can cast two >1000% skills in succession.
A Beastmaster has 2 disable skills, a 1300% finisher and a stackable 10% armor penetration in form of armor rip
But all of them have in common: They either lack a fast stun or can't finish the targets during the stun.
Unfair Summon Spirit Sphere:
The hardest one to judge:
To understand this one, you have to realise that once a player refined all gear parts, a monk isn't able to kill with a single G-Fist anymore.
F.e. versus Warriors ~25k damage per G-Fist should be the common case.
In order to kill the target, a monk must use Summon Spirit Sphere to reset the cooldown and repeat the combo.
BUT, this brings us to the most significant drawback: Summon Spirit Sphere has a starting cooldown of 120sec
So sure. Monks can reset the G-Fist and might easily "two-shot" Warriors and other classes in potless duels, but only if Summon Spirit Sphere is readyto use. Just heal up quickly between duels and you'll see the truth... monks won't able to kill you easily.
And that's the reason why monks really suck during WoE and that's why there aren't many left on the servers: You'll need TWO G-Fists to kill targets and even with 40% Vigor, you have 80sec (SSS) between two attempts.
Beside that, I already mentioned that the knock down duration only lasts right after the first G-Fist. Thereafter target is able to act and can use pots while the monk casts Summon Spirit Sphere. BUT, if the target uses the new purple pots (or a Pitcher / Spray / X combo) right after the first G-Fist, how is the monk suppose to kill at all? Then, the second G-Fist won't suffice either.
So if I were to choose between a luck-based Rage Strike that can even kill miltiple targets, a lucky Cross Impact with a 5sec cooldown out of hide and a G-Fist, it surely wouldn't choose a monk.
What's positive about the monk?:
Well, beside the mentioned fact that they suffer from a high cooldown, they also have a significantly lower threat in PvE and the AoE sucks. But, there are some cases, where they shine:
1. Sporadic 1:1 situations (best without heal):
One of the main advantages of the monk is the fact that Lightning Walk has a fast animation time. That means that he usually stuns opponents before they could do the same. Against a Knight's Shield Charge or a BM's Beast Charge, the Lightning Walk will usually 'interrupt' them and 'win'. A noticable exception is a Priest's Judex, that's why duels against priests are an automatic loss for the monk.
A group of monks could be fine in WoE due to their 'first strike' capabilities. But that's true for a group of priests as well. So the higher defense of monks is the only reason, why they aren't strictly worse than priests.
1. Colo
The Colloseum still simulates the old LotS gear tokens, but uses the new stat bonuses. That means that a monk will benefit from DEF per VIT, but doesn't suffer from the downgraded armor values. Targets are usually distracted and a higher cooldown doesn't matter that much as long as you get your regular kills and you stay alive.
But how to kill a monk as an Assassin:
The trick is: Always stay behind the monk... in that way, the monk would have to turn first to attack/stun you.
Start with Cross Impact out of hide, follow up with a Shadow Assault to knock the monk down and follow with a Shadow Strike, Trigger Shadow Armor as soon as the monk stands up to buy yourself some extra time of 'immunity' and finish him with Grimtooth, Shadow Explosion & co.
During WoE, fighting monks is rather easy:
Either keep the "strike a vital point" guild skill up, so that you're able to deal more than 60k damage with a CI out of hide.
When facing a monk, use pots after the first G-Fist and use the "pierce eye" skill to make it very likely that his combo fails.
Your ideas are good, but in-reality only good in theory, in practice your ideas are generally wrong, have you accounted for a double guillotine fist on one knockdown, or a monk using multiple attack cls runes to do more than the average 28k gfist or the addition of osiris epic+ cards to make their damage even more potentduring woe? In a game that was "working as intended" yes your statements would be correct, but this isnt lots anymore and the game doesnt make sense anymore in reality
That chart is outdated monks recieve 2 dodge and 2 crit per agi
Before I comment your other reply, can you please take a second look and tell me the monk entries for AGI in the given chart please... just to make sure about your 'outdated chart' comment.
Before I comment your other reply, can you please take a second look and tell me the monk entries for AGI in the given chart please... just to make sure about your 'outdated chart' comment.
So your correct but given how much they get from every other stat i.e hit, atk pwr, parry thats still a lot
Oh and your comment of monks dont have high defense my monk with maxed ironskin wearing ml 1 green gear amd lvl 50 gloves and boots has more defense than my ml20 knight with a +20 top.
Do they naturally have mor3 defense? Obviously not they are a cloth class but can they have the most defense, along with dodge and parry? Yes they can
Your ideas are good, but in-reality only good in theory, in practice your ideas are generally wrong, have you accounted for a double guillotine fist on one knockdown, or a monk using multiple attack cls runes to do more than the average 28k gfist or the addition of osiris epic+ cards to make their damage even more potentduring woe? In a game that was "working as intended" yes your statements would be correct, but this isnt lots anymore and the game doesnt make sense anymore in reality
See, CLS runes work for both sides... you know that, right?
So how do you - as a VCR - test them? Only one side using them? Or only the monk, but no other class?
With four T2 gear parts , CLS defense runes and a armor 20 seedrune and a some honing, ANY class can achieve at least 75% damage reduction (4x 10% CLS, 20% seed, 10% T2 bonus, 5% via honing). Now please tell me how many Osirs cards, CLS attack runes, etc. you need to compensate a damage that's almost quartered?
We could also talk about how hide makes it easy to outright start with full CLS attack runes, whereas the monk might not. And we could talk about gear-switch macros that makes it easy to change between 4x attack and 4x defense runes within half a second (works for both sides).
So tell me, Tamien:
Where you against the CLS runes in the new gear?
Did you request to forbid gear-switching while being stunned or knocked-down?
Because I did!
____________________________________
And about the 2x G-Fisr during a knockdown:
IF you want to try this, you can't use the Lightning Walk as an opening attack. You would have to build up inner energy first. This makes the monk prone to opposing stun attacks, which will then lead toward many more 1on1 being lost.
And the result? You were able to bring up 6720% damage (2x 3360% G-Fists)... whereas a Warrior with 1k INT dealing critical damage with a Rage Strike deals 6x 1140% (=6840%) NOT taking the extra 30% damage vs. knocked down as well.
So tell me Tamien, what is worse? Having a 50% chance to do that with a Rage Strike every 12sec or less, possibly even affecting multiple targets, or doing the same with a higher success chance, but a 80sec limit between two these attempts? Because I don't differ things at this level of brokenness anymore.
And I could just start a rant against rogues here as well. How they can use Dirty Plan while in hide, dealing 5680% (4x 1420%) as an opening stike! I could then point out the fact that they can reset skills just like the monk does, that he can use Smoke Bomb to achieve a 2800% Cross Impact multiple times, etc.
So tell me Tamien, is a 5580% Moonlight Dance perfectly fine, but a double G-Fist is broken?
And I just give you other tasks:
Take your Rogue, an Assassin. a Warrior and a Knight and attack any end-game boss without using pets, just to check the threat meter. Then repeat this without using threat auras. Please take twi screenshots and print them here, because we could then discuss how broken the damage of a monk really is.
Then, go get a punchbag Beastmaster and attack that one with a Grimtooth out of hide, a Shield Cannon and a G-Fist, just to check the result. But this time, you better ask Pr3 to record it, just to make sure that you weren't talking about the 'below 20% HP' benefit. Would be nice to see who deals the most damage.
Why is it that no one bothered complaining about being 1 shot by warriors in these thread? Since OP's talking about Class VS. Class, lol Let's refrain from the fact that warriors can 1 shot 3 people at the same time. (Must be the work of RNGesus)
PS: I play both class (Warrior&Monk) But warrior's RageStrike still amuses me whenever I 1 shot 2-3 people that are Knock downed next to each other. lol
Why is it that no one bothered complaining about being 1 shot by warriors in these thread? Since OP's talking about Class VS. Class, lol Let's refrain from the fact that warriors can 1 shot 3 people at the same time. (Must be the work of RNGesus)
PS: I play both class (Warrior&Monk) But warrior's RageStrike still amuses me whenever I 1 shot 2-3 people that are Knock downed next to each other. lol
Your statement is actually 100% wrong if you had tested damage reduction> defense rather than doing a little math and running your mouth on the forums you would know putting on a certain amount of t2> pve gear would attain more damage rather than reduce it with the large amount of defense lose greven.
if you want to argue that a monk has to take time to build 3 points (which is all of 5 seconds) they can easily avoid a stun frkm a sin which is a low hit rate class to begin with, by using evasion or to make it even better if they use protection ki which drops the already low dps due to not hitting by decreasing it by 50% on top of an armor rune and 2-3 defense runes equaling 100% damage reduction or close to it. So your stun misses, your hits miss, what hits do miss or below sub par no matter what damage increase you have. Did i hit the nail on the head with that greven or should i continue?
For your statement on using full cls runes out of hide you can potentially do that but where does that leave your crit percentage and hit rate vs. a monks dodge and parry and 100% knockdown crit? Ill leave that question for you to decide.
For wether cls runes should be in new gear or not and my personal opinion on it, thats none of your business so instead of running your mouth on the forums and flaming w/e vcr you can why dont you do something more useful with your time and idk actually work to fix the game... oh thats right your to good, your time is much better spent writing novels on the forums about, percentages and formulas that generally nobody reads.
Your "homework" you can do that yourself since it has nothing to do with this forum post which is fyi about assassin vs. Monk not momk vs. [Insert broken class here], or you can spend another half hour writing another forum post about the intricacies of each class that more than likely wont be read, since its pure formula and not pure testing like i said your ideas are good but when put into practice guess what? They are wrong 99.9% of the time.
So does that answer your question greven? Or do i need to be more clear? Please tell me if i need to elaborate more for you, or i can get Pr3 to make a video to show you how broken monks are since you feel the need to throw his name out there.
Edited by deathdelete, 04 January 2015 - 11:49 PM.
I like how vauu said "we did not talk about Wizard DOT" do you even play Wizard to see how they're crappy please ?...if a sin lose vs a wizard then i think he should go away form this class...sin is one of the OPest class ever and every pro sin will say this way.
To answer you TbatmanT, Intra had OP runes i agree but his gameplay was one of the best gameplay as well he was pure agi, his dammages were not so OP but opponents always "miss miss miss" then i think yo ucan get power 5000% or whatever, monk will kill you, you have to deal with that but you can manage it in another way "AGI" which is i think one of your only chance to rekt a monk.
So your correct but given how much they get from every other stat i.e hit, atk pwr, parry thats still a lot
Oh and your comment of monks dont have high defense my monk with maxed ironskin wearing ml 1 green gear amd lvl 50 gloves and boots has more defense than my ml20 knight with a +20 top.
Do they naturally have mor3 defense? Obviously not they are a cloth class but can they have the most defense, along with dodge and parry? Yes they can
Just take a screenshot then and show it here! Fact is that knights and warriors get four times the defense per gear part and get four times the refinement bonuses.
A monk's himmelmez top f.e. gives like ~460 defense whereas a warrior's top something above 1800 defense. Now add iron skin and steel body together... 250%, right? => 460 + 250% = 1610. You see, the monk would have to spend 10 skillpoints and can't equal out the defense of a warrior's or knight's top. But let me help you with the refinements a bit...
So it's 1305 defense for the monk and 5223 defense for the warrior. Add iron skin and steel body => 4567 defense.
Now what... 10 skillpoints later and a single gear part puts the monk already 656 points behind a warrior or knight.
With all five himmelmez gear parts, it's ~4810 defense for the monk vs. ~19260 defense for a warrior.
Add iron skin and steel body here, and the monk is still lacking ~2400 defense.
Sure, there's the defense per VIT part...
So let's separate between warriors and knights: A warrior can use defender to push his defense from 19260 up to ~25000. Suddenly, the monk is lacking ~8000 defense. So tell me Tamien, how much vitality does your monk have to end up brokenly OP to the Warrior?
A knight doesn't have defender, but he also gets defense per vitality, has a shield that raises his defense slightly... but most importantly: The knight's shield grant him an extra 10% damage reduction.
So tell me Tamien, who's talking 'theoretic crap' now?
If I find the muse, I'll also comment on the 'OP dodge/parry' nonesense, just by comparing gear stats, defender bonuses, preferred statpoint allocations, etc.
Just take a screenshot then and show it here! Fact is that knights and warriors get four times the defense per gear part and get four times the refinement bonuses.
A monk's himmelmez top f.e. gives like ~460 defense whereas a warrior's top something above 1800 defense. Now add iron skin and steel body together... 250%, right? => 460 + 250% = 1610. You see, the monk would have to spend 10 skillpoints and can't equal out the defense of a warrior's or knight's top. But let me help you with the refinements a bit...
So it's 1305 defense for the monk and 5223 defense for the warrior. Add iron skin and steel body => 4567 defense.
Now what... 10 skillpoints later and a single gear part puts the monk already 656 points behind a warrior or knight.
With all five himmelmez gear parts, it's ~4810 defense for the monk vs. ~19260 defense for a warrior.
Add iron skin and steel body here, and the monk is still lacking ~2400 defense.
Sure, there's the defense per VIT part...
So let's separate between warriors and knights: A warrior can use defender to push his defense from 19260 up to ~25000. Suddenly, the monk is lacking ~8000 defense. So tell me Tamien, how much vitality does your monk have to end up brokenly OP to the Warrior?
A knight doesn't have defender, but he also gets defense per vitality, has a shield that raises his defense slightly... but most importantly: The knight's shield grant him an extra 10% damage reduction.
So tell me Tamien, who's talking 'theoretic crap' now?
If I find the muse, I'll also comment on the 'OP dodge/parry' nonesense, just by comparing gear stats, defender bonuses, preferred statpoint allocations, etc.
If your trying to be impressive by changing the subject your not idgaf about monk compared to a knight or warrior this topic post is sin vs monk, either prove how a monk isnt op compared to a sin or gtfo.
P.s. id rather you didnt ckmment about dodge and parry if its another wall of text, i think everyone is about done with that -_-
Edited by deathdelete, 05 January 2015 - 06:21 AM.
yeah, hide+cross impact can 1 shot a tank not funny at all.
then, if he don't able to 1 shot it, he'll use shadow armor then run away to get away from combat and then hide again and wait for 2nd strike <---- this is very annoying you know.
Sin and monk are not the same, so they should have different build and stats, card, etc. At early game its obvious Monk is more OP than any class, but sin are more OP at the end game specially if he got all the skill points, cards, and seed runes.
I Just avoid Monks, don't want to waste my effort on trying to kill them(Yeah sure you can use GS and other debuffs but RNGesus isn't so nice with me lately) .. then POPOPOPOPOWAHHH RED and PURPLE POTS annoys me they should remove that in colo (will you agree with me?)....
You were the one to bring up defense differences between your ML1 monk and your knight and now that I have proven how irrelevant your statement is in regard of ML30 PvP (WoE, etc.), you blame me for getting "off-topic"... that's funny.
To repeat myself: I don't defend the monk class as such, I correct false statements!
And "monks have OP defense" is such an example. This is true for lower-level characters without refinement, because WarpPortal has chosen to balance defense inbalances via stat bonuses (and I was against these stat bonuses all the time). So this statement gets obsolete for ML30 gear.
Another example is: "G-Fist damage OP." It's simply not true. As I've shown, Cross Impact or Grimtooth out of hide deal an equivalent amount of damage. And I already mentioned the Knight's Shield Cannon having a higher average and a tremendously higher maximum damage. It's as simple as that: If a monk can one-shot enemies, an assassin can do the same and knight would produce an overkill.
And what most assassins seem to ignore is the simple fact that Cross Impact is the first attack, not the final attack of a combo. You usually don't fight 1on1's, so as soon as a monk uses Lightning Walk to knock his target down, he might get stunned by another enemy in return.... combo lost, No damage bonus, nothing! Now try to do that against an assassin's CI or Grimtooth attack. So I don't know what you prefer, but when I would have to choose between a 100% crit. chance that can be interrupted and allows opponents to prepare themself and a 60%+ crit. chance for the similar amount of damage that ignores all the other drawbacks, I'd choose the latter.
But that's not some random rant against assassins! It's the attempt to put things into a correct relation to each other!
If I could change Ragnarok the way I want it to be, no class would be able to one-shot another one. Tanks would deal less damage, but would also be able to sustain more danage. I would give assassins the highest damage skills, but they would also have the highest cooldown. That's my understanding of 'assassinations'. Just look at the Dragon Age 2 talents that I've used as a reference quite often. There, the assassins get a skill similar to battle tactics and they get something similar to a RO2 Mark of Shadow.... rare but deadly attacks.
Let's refrain from the fact that warriors can 1 shot 3 people at the same time. (Must be the work of RNGesus) 
